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Thanks for the feedback. Yes. I haven’t twisted any meanings. I’m sorry that it has come across that way to you. I have. (In fact, many times in this forum when discussing the matter.) The only thing which I have ruled completely out is killing my attacker / my enemy.

We won’t be able to agree that Jesus physically inflicted violence on them. I agree with that.

Thanks. @Riven has only been a Christian for around a year. For reasons that I won’t go into here, he needs to hear that coming from Christians other than me. He’s a good thinker and he’s growing in his faith.

The power was in his spoken word. He didn’t push them. I think you still need to confront the fact that Jesus and the apostles didn’t harm anyone and taught his followers not to harm anyone. Thanks. Then we should all be out physically turning water into wine?

@markalan do you share the belief expressed by @Riven that the Golden Rule is divorced from reality?

The solution to protecting innocent people is to let the state do what it is required by God to do and for the followers of Jesus to do what he and the apostles taught his followers to do. I’ve never tried. Do you conclude from your inability to make water into wine that you shouldn’t follow...

The Quran unequivocally states that Jesus is the Messiah. If a Muslim challenges you on it, be prepared to show it to them in their book. Yes. They haven’t all heard. And even those who have heard don’t fully understand without receiving further instruction. That’s the normal and routine...

See your question below. He didn’t touch them. He spoke and they fell. What I know is that followers of Jesus are instructed to imitate him, as the apostles imitated him. You know that too, don’t you?

That’s right. It also was not the “role” of the state to spread the Gospel. Did Jesus kill anyone? No. Neither would I nor the apostles condone it. My position is that spiritual warfare is linked to protecting innocent people from attack. I agree.

Yes. When Paul wrote, those people were pagans. It was their role, not the role of the apostles and the followers of Jesus, to protect people. How does scripture say followers of Jesus are to protect themselves? Isn’t it by putting on the full armor of God? If someone were to ask you to pray...

There is no guarantee that anyone can prevent innocent people from being harmed or killed. The government certainly can’t guarantee it, and it is the governments responsibility. Let’s go back to Jesus and the apostles. Were they able to “prevent innocent people from being harmed or killed and...

That’s right. Yes. That’s right. But there is something different now than it was when Paul wrote, and that difference is what has caused the problem we are discussing.

No. Yes. Paul called Nero and his government (the pagan Roman Empire) servants (or ministers) of God. Right?

There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s what the police are for. Then you have to use other means which do not conflict with the teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles. What did they teach and what did do? It isn’t a sin to protect yourself and your family. It is a sin to disobey...

”We [all followers of Jesus, not only the clergy] do not use the weapons of the world.” - Paul, in 2 Corinthians 10:4 @Riven the clergy has always had access to weapons. We know what weapons they have access to. They are the same weapons which all followers of Jesus have access to -> Spiritual...

“Do your best and then sleep in peace. God is awake.” - Adrian Rogers

You’ve said publicly on this platform that one of your favorite Christian authors is the well-known pacifist, C.H. Spurgeon; known as - which you yourself have confirmed - ”The Prince of Preachers”. (In my opinion, the best preacher which Protestantism has ever produced. He is a major figure in...

The apostles didn’t wound or kill their enemies.* The apostles didn’t wound or kill their friends. The apostles didn’t wound or kill one another. The apostles didn’t wound or kill the disciples (brothers and sisters) of Jesus. The apostles didn’t wound or kill anyone, for any reason. The...

The Just War theory was unknown to the early Christians @Riven. It doesn’t come to us from Jesus and the apostles. (It comes to us from men like Ambrose and Augustine; late 4th century / early 5th century.) There was no “class system” that made clergy holy men who couldn’t kill for the state and...

Did Jesus and the apostles use the weapons of the world to save people who were being attacked? No, they didn’t. Why didn’t they?