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He wasn’t invisible, inaudible and intangible between his bodily resurrection and his bodily ascension into heaven. His disciples attest to that. That attestation is what I stand on. I’m constrained by the history of primitive 1st century Christianity. By spiritualizing, we can make scripture...

I hear the beating of the drums, the tearing of the insignia, the yielding threads, the breaking sword, ringing in my ears. Origen. He died c. AD 253. Dead and buried, but his influence lives on. I feel a little like General Patton talking about the Carthaginians. (The General, however...

As I’ve mentioned to you previously, I seldom read or respond to long posts. Answering a tome with a tome isn’t what I’m here for. Even the prospect of it is wearying to me. O, yes.

“Crypto” means a person who secretly supports or adheres to a group or belief. A Crypto-Gnostic is a person who adheres to Gnostic belief, at least to some extent. Your belief about a pre-death Jesus (who really is a human person / being) isn’t compatible with Gnostic Christianity (he only...

Yes, but I’m exhausted just thinking about it.

Are you familiar with the technical term “crypto-Gnostic”?

My wife is away for the week and I wanted to reward myself for pumping some iron. (Oohrah!) I have cookies at home, and I have been craving German Chocolate cake (my favorite). Decision made. Off to the grocery store I headed. But then I saw it —> a St. Vincent DePaul Mission Store. They don’t...

But that was then (post-conception, pre-birth, pre-death, pre-resurrection); this is now (post-resurrection). No bodily resurrection and a Jesus who was a human person is no longer a human person. And isn’t himself coming back to the earth. That’s “another Jesus” in the eyes of primitive...

Gnosticism -> Jesus only appeared to be a man, a male human person. Primitive Christianity -> Jesus is a man, a male human person.

A non-physical Jesus is a Jesus who wouldn’t have a physical body, and couldn’t have been touched and seen. A non-physical Jesus is a Jesus who couldn’t have breathed, or eaten, or walked. The bodily resurrected Jesus did all of those things, and more.

How shall I put this delicately? I’m off to the gym, shortly. Jesus would change clothes in a male locker room at the gym, as will I. @Pancho Frijoles was asking if I thought Yahweh would change clothes in a male or female locker room. A question of anatomy. Yahweh. He (not she) is the one...

I haven’t attended a Quaker service. I’ve only read about them.

Jesus of Nazareth. Was dead and in the grave. There is no activity in the grave. Now alive; bodily resurrected from the realm of the dead. Active in heaven. Will himself return to the earth in the future. Baha’u’llah. Dead. In the grave, awaiting bodily resurrection and judegement. There is no...

To primitive Christians it isn’t an either / or choice; bodily resurrection is both. I was speaking this morning with a colleague of mine who lives in Atlanta. We were discussing, among other things, the Baha’i religion. He said that Baha’i sounds similar to him to the Unitarian Universalists.

I worked with a Mormon and got to know him quite well. We spent a lot of time together traveling. We don’t believe in the same God, nor in the same Jesus. There were some things we were able to agree on but we could only go so far. They believe many, many things that I don’t believe. He remains...

@Pancho Frijoles have you read the early Church Fathers? If you have then you know that bodily resurrection continued to be the Christian hope, belief and message; it wasn’t the Church countermanding Paul.

I’ve never been there. It isn’t the destination for the disciples of Jesus in primitive Christianity. It does imply a physical place. I think Yahweh has a spiritual body, just as Jesus himself does now - which Jesus received when he was bodily resurrected from the place of the dead. Her...

He is in heaven, not on some planet. The very same Jesus who was bodily resurrected from the realm of the dead and appeared to the disciples is now, himself, in heaven. The very same Jesus, himself, will return to this planet, earth. That is New Testament Christianity. That is an essential...