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OK. All those verses say Jesus is God. I'm not arguing that point. But none of those verses explain who the God and Father of God is. There's no game going on here. I think it's valid question. Sorry, but I can't just ignore the many verses that say Jesus has a God and a Father. I just want to...

Amen to that! So long as we confess Jesus as our Lord and believe God raised him from the dead, we are saved. Rom 10:9-10, 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one...

Where have I denied the Deity of Christ or the trinity? My goal was to see if anyone knows who the God and Father of God is. I trust you read the OP. If not, give it a look.

There is another option. Maybe Jesus didn't call himself God because he didn't think he was God? If that is the case, then the verses I quoted in the OP would present no difficulties. We wouldn't have to explain who the God and Father of God is. I think a Father, God in this case, and His son...

The scripture I quoted in the OP are not a pipe dream. They are the words of God and the say with no ambiguity whatsoever that Jesus has a God and a Father. You yourself say Jesus is God. That being the case, then clearly God has a God and a Father. I'm just wondering who that might be.

Very true. Good verses, but they don't say who God's God and Father is which is the subject of the OP.

I am quite familiar with the history of Judaism and Christianity, enough to see that John's gospel, far from incorporating Gnosticism, was in fact a polemic against it. I think virtually all scholars agree that Jews considered the "word" and "wisdom" of the OT to be personifications of the one...

I see a parallel between Jesus and the people he addressed in John 20:17, namely that they both had the same God and Father. Whoever the God of the people was, Jesus had that same God. I'm not sure that his ministering as a human would change that. So long as we refrain from adding extraneous...

You stated it better than I! To think God has a God does indeed open a can of worms. That's why I wonder about Jesus talking about his God and Father as well the Peter and Paul talking about the God and Father of Jesus some 7 times. Assuming Jesus is God, then there is really no escaping the...

And yet Jesus prayed, "...that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3 The word "know" is Greek "ginosko" which any Bible dictionary will define as something like, "To have an intimate relationship with another person" For God to tell me that...

That could be, but God keeping His God and Father a secret seems pretty extreme. But then I suppose a case could be made for God being rather extreme. Still, it doesn't seem plausible to me.

Do you think having the rank of God is the same as actually being God? Just saying there is no one higher on the totem pole than God doesn't explain the many clear verses that say there is indeed a God and Father of God. And I can see that none of them make a distinction between God part and a...

Do you mean God doesn't want us (and Satan) to know who His God is?

A case could certainly be made for that as far as why Jesus said he had a God and a Father, although I don't see a clear scripture saying that. In any case, it doesn't really explain Peter and Paul saying Jesus had a God as well as a Father no less than 7 times. Assuming the doctrine that Jesus...

I see what you're saying now. The Jews of that time equated "the word of God" with God Himself. That has a huge impact on the meaning of John 1. They would never have seen that as a God becoming a man. They were vehemently against such an idea although it was prevalent among the Greeks and the...

You mean change the verses? That's not a good idea. :)

I think I see what you are saying, but I'm still confused. You and I both have the same God, namely the God and Father of Jesus Christ. So I can say, as Jesus said, "...my God and your God..." Wouldn't that mean nothing more than that both of us have the same God? Why would it mean one of is...

It's certainly no secret that according to Orthodox Christian doctrine, Jesus is God. That brings up an interesting question, one that I've not been able to sort out. Paul and Peter said multiple times that Jesus had a God and Jesus himself said the same thing. John 20:17, Jesus saith unto...

How would you suggest we make 1 Thess 5:23 agree with Gen 2:7?

You're right! Gen 2:7, And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. It's plain in the very beginning that God did not create man's body and put a soul into it. Man was a living soul. Man was a living...