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Isaiah 24:21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many...

Are you perhaps SDA? I know they believe the thousand year reign takes place in heaven, which would mean they are in an immortal bodily state in that case. Other Premils, such as me, typically take the thousand year reign to be upon the earth.

You must be a different Marty than the one I recall on BibleForums years ago. The Marty I recall back then didn't take things like that personal like you are taking it here. I wasn't being sarcastic nor insulting, I was half heartedly joking. I won't do that any more since you apparently now...

This is interesting. What state do you assume they will be in when beginning to do that? A disembodied state? Or a resurrected immortal bodily state?

That's reasonable. And the way I look at things in general, if something is at least reasonable, it should then at least be worthy of considering. You haven't changed my mind at this point, but I do at least admit that what you have submitted, that it is reasonable. Now if Amils could only...

As if that makes sense when we factor in the last 7 vials of wrath, that somehow all of those events will be fulfilled within a 24 hour period or less. Revelation 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were...

Except per Amil, this according to some Amils, these in verse 4---the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands---are...

Hold on there. If one is insisting that the church is removed so that God can once again deal with the Jews, it obviously makes zero sense per that scenario to take these Jews to be meaning believing Jews rather than unbelieving Jews. Everyone knows, or should know if they don't, that believing...

Technically speaking, you might be better off calling it the '70th week theory" rather than a "seven-year tribulation theory" since the latter is misrepresting this position. IOW, these are not the same thing. There is no such thing as a 7 year tribulation to begin with. The tribulation is 42...

You summed up my point rather well. Even if Amil is true, even this doesn't make the beast and satan one and the same. That aside. But when a Premil insists that the beast and satan are one and the same, now we're venturing into utter lunacy, or that this Premil lacks reading comprehension...

At least we agree about that. But we are not in agreement about this as well. -------------------------------- As to the verses below, what I have underlined should speak for themselves, thus no commentary needed. But even so, I guess I better add some commentary, regardless. Revelation...

Let's look at something I brought up per Revelation 12. Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13...

In your mind, what is it that leads you to believe that the church and the seed of the woman, that these are not one and the same? Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the...

Some of this I agree with you about, meaning only what I underlined. As to a supposed mid trib possibility, there is no such thing as mid trib to begin with. Mid trib is the same thing as pretrib. And here is why. Great tribulation is not 7 years, thus 84 months, it's only 42 months. Midtrib...

It would be more correct to say this instead---Great tribulation and the wrath of God are NOT the same thing. But God is not the only one that has wrath. satan also has wrath, great wrath, and that his great wrath is involving great tribulation. Thus it would be more correct to say...

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and...

lol. It's not like I didn't deserve that. :)

Let's start over then. Maybe I'm just not fully understanding what you are applying to what? Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in...

The last trump, what is your opinion on when that is meaning? Because until the last trump sounds first, no one could possibly be ascending to heaven in an immortal bodily state. And that presents a problem if the proposed Pretrib rapture is not meaning the last trump but is meaning prior to it...

If the passage in question is indeed meaning Jesus, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but if it is, it seems to me then, that the time frame would be that of 1 Thessalonians 4 pertaining to the rapture following after the dead in Christ have risen first. The rapture event recorded in 1 Thess 4...