γενεά geneá and the fallacy of illegitimate totality transfer

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claninja

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A Bible concordance is a word index for the Bible. It shows every verse where a particular word appears so you can easily find passages. For example, the online version of strongs concordance, from bluetterbible, shows where and how γενεά geneá is translated in English in the KJV:

  • “KJV Translation Count — Total: 42x
    The KJV translates Strong's G1074 in the following manner: generation (37x), time (2x), age (2x), nation (1x).”
Further more, Strongs concordance does come with “Strong’s definitions”. These aren’t true comprehensive definitions of how a word is comprehensively defined in a specific context, but more of just simple glosses of how the word is translated, in general, into English in the KJV:

  • “Strong’s Definitions γενεά geneá, ghen-eh-ah'; from (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):—age, generation, nation, time.”
Now, A lexicon is a dictionary of a language or a specialized set of words, often listing meanings, usage, and sometimes grammatical information.
In biblical studies, a Greek or Hebrew lexicon explains the meanings of words in context, not just giving a simple English equivalent, like Strongs concordance. So if we look at γενεά geneá again, thayer’s lexicon provides a comprehensive usage and definition for each use of the word IN A SPECIFIC CONTEXT.

  • STRONGS G1074:
    γενεά, -ᾶς, ἡ, (ΓΕΝΩ, γίνομαι [cf. Curtius, p. 610]); Sept. often for דּוֹר; in Greek writings from Homer down;
    1. a begetting, birth, nativity: Herodotus 3, 33; Xenophon, Cyril 1, 2, 8, etc.; [others make the collective sense the primary significance, see Curtius as above].
    2. passively, that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family;
    a. properly, as early as Homer; equivalent to מִשְׁפָּחַה, Genesis 31:3, etc. σῴζειν Ῥαχάβην κ. τὴν γενεὰναὐτῆς, Josephus, Antiquities 5, 1, 5. the several ranks in a natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy: Matthew 1:17, (ἑβδόμη γενεὰ οὗτόςἐστιν ἀπὸ τοῦ πρώτου, Philo, vit. Moys. i. § 2).
    b. metaphorically, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race: Matthew 17:17; Mark 9:19; Luke 9:41; Luke 16:8; [Acts 2:40].
    3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); Luke 21:32; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γεν. ταύ., Luke 11:31; τὴν δὲ γενεὰν αὐτοῦ τίςδιηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 Sept.) [but cf. Meyer, at the passage].
    4. an age (i. e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), the space of from 30 to 33 years (Herodotus 2, 142, and others; Heraclitus in Plutarch, def. orac. c. 11), or ὁ χρόνος, ἐν ᾧ γεννῶντα παρέχει τὸν ἐξαὐτοῦ γεγεννημένον ὁ γεννήσας(Plutarch, the passage cited); in the N. T.common in plural: Ephesians 3:5 [Winers Grammar, § 31, 9 a.; Buttmann, 186 (161)]; παρῳχημέναις γενεαῖς in ages gone by, Acts 14:16; ἀπὸ τῶν γενεῶν for ages, since the generations began, Colossians 1:26; ἐκ γενεῶν ἀρχαίωνfrom the generations of old, from ancient times down, Acts 15:21; εἰς γενεὰςγενεῶν unto generations of generations, through all ages, forever (a phrase which assumes that the longer ages are made up of shorter; see αἰών, 1 a.): Luke 1:50 R L (דּוֹרִים לְדוֹר, Isaiah 51:8); εἰς γενεὰς κ. γενεάς unto generations and generations, ibid. T Tr WH equivalent to וָדוֹר לְדוֹר, Psalm 89:2; Isaiah 34:17; very often in the Sept.; [add, εἰς πάσας τὰςγενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων, Ephesians 3:21, cf. Ellicott at the passage] (γενεά is used of a century in Genesis 15:16, cf. Knobel at the passage, and on the senses of the word see the full remarks of Keim, iii. 206 [v. 245 English translation]).


All of this brings us to the fallacy of the illegitimate totality transfer when using a concordance or lexicon.

The illegitimate totality transfer is a formal logical fallacy (often discussed in biblical interpretation, law, or philosophy). It occurs when someone takes the totality of attributes, conditions, or meanings from one context and improperly applies them to another context, assuming that everything that applies in one case automatically applies in another.

In other words, if you use Strongs concordance to say γενεά (genea) can mean nation, generation, age, or time and thus genea in Matthew 24:34 can mean nation, you’ve have used the concordance incorrectly, and have committed the fallacy of the illegitimate totality transfer.

Additionally, If you used Thayers lexicon and saw that γενεά (genea) is defined as birth, family of same stock, multitude living at the same time or age, AND you saw that Thayers defines genea, in the context of Matthew 24:34 as a multitude living at the same time, BUT you argued that genea can mean family of same stock in the context of Matthew 24:34, then you have incorrectly used Thayers Greek lexicon and have committed the fallacy of the illegitimate totality transfer.

The point is that Thayer’s lexicon and strong’s concordances are not tools for selecting a definition to suit your theological preferences; rather, they exist to show the word’s usage and meaning in a specific context.
 

marks

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In other words, if you use Strongs concordance to say γενεά (genea) can mean nation, generation, age, or time and thus genea in Matthew 24:34 can mean nation, you’ve have used the concordance incorrectly, and have committed the fallacy of the illegitimate totality transfer.
Appeal to Authority, namely Thayer. There are other scholars who say differently, shall we play them against each other?

I'd say a proper study not only looks at the range of meaning a word can carry, but also what the context prohibits or demands. Let's not stop with "Thayer says so", but actually examine the context to see which meaning best fits, and if there are any parallel passages from which we may gain knowledge.

Much love!
 

claninja

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Appeal to Authority, namely Thayer. There are other scholars who say differently, shall we play them against each other?

I'd say a proper study not only looks at the range of meaning a word can carry, but also what the context prohibits or demands. Let's not stop with "Thayer says so", but actually examine the context to see which meaning best fits, and if there are any parallel passages from which we may gain knowledge.

Much love!

I never asserted genea must mean generation in Matthew 24:34 solely because Thayers said so. The argument was not intended to be an appeal to authority.

The argument was that IF you are going to appeal to Strong’s or Thayer’s, or any lexicon, concordance, or dictionary, know how use it correctly for its intended purpose in order avoid the fallacy of illegitimate totality transfer.

That being said, appealing to some kind of authority is impossible to avoid, because none of us today can speak or read the koine Greek in its first century context without someone teaching us.
 

MonoBiblical

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That being said, appealing to some kind of authority is impossible to avoid, because none of us today can speak or read the koine Greek in its first century context without someone teaching us.
Even then, that is not a sure thing.
 
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WPM

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A Bible concordance is a word index for the Bible. It shows every verse where a particular word appears so you can easily find passages. For example, the online version of strongs concordance, from bluetterbible, shows where and how γενεά geneá is translated in English in the KJV:

  • “KJV Translation Count — Total: 42x
    The KJV translates Strong's G1074 in the following manner: generation (37x), time (2x), age (2x), nation (1x).”
Further more, Strongs concordance does come with “Strong’s definitions”. These aren’t true comprehensive definitions of how a word is comprehensively defined in a specific context, but more of just simple glosses of how the word is translated, in general, into English in the KJV:

  • “Strong’s Definitions γενεά geneá, ghen-eh-ah'; from (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):—age, generation, nation, time.”
Now, A lexicon is a dictionary of a language or a specialized set of words, often listing meanings, usage, and sometimes grammatical information.
In biblical studies, a Greek or Hebrew lexicon explains the meanings of words in context, not just giving a simple English equivalent, like Strongs concordance. So if we look at γενεά geneá again, thayer’s lexicon provides a comprehensive usage and definition for each use of the word IN A SPECIFIC CONTEXT.

  • STRONGS G1074:
    γενεά, -ᾶς, ἡ, (ΓΕΝΩ, γίνομαι [cf. Curtius, p. 610]); Sept. often for דּוֹר; in Greek writings from Homer down;
    1. a begetting, birth, nativity: Herodotus 3, 33; Xenophon, Cyril 1, 2, 8, etc.; [others make the collective sense the primary significance, see Curtius as above].
    2. passively, that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family;
    a. properly, as early as Homer; equivalent to מִשְׁפָּחַה, Genesis 31:3, etc. σῴζειν Ῥαχάβην κ. τὴν γενεὰναὐτῆς, Josephus, Antiquities 5, 1, 5. the several ranks in a natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy: Matthew 1:17, (ἑβδόμη γενεὰ οὗτόςἐστιν ἀπὸ τοῦ πρώτου, Philo, vit. Moys. i. § 2).
    b. metaphorically, a race of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character; and especially in a bad sense a perverse race: Matthew 17:17; Mark 9:19; Luke 9:41; Luke 16:8; [Acts 2:40].
    3. the whole multitude of men living at the same time: Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 1:48 (πᾶσαι αἱ γενεαί); Luke 21:32; Philippians 2:15; used especially of the Jewish race living at one and the same period: Matthew 11:16; Matthew 12:39, 41f, 45; Matthew 16:4; Matthew 23:36; Mark 8:12, 38; Luke 11:29f, 32, 50; Luke 17:25; Acts 13:36; Hebrews 3:10; ἄνθρωποι τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης, Luke 7:31; ἄνδρες τῆς γεν. ταύ., Luke 11:31; τὴν δὲ γενεὰν αὐτοῦ τίςδιηγήσεται, who can describe the wickedness of the present generation, Acts 8:33 (from Isaiah 53:8 Sept.) [but cf. Meyer, at the passage].
    4. an age (i. e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), the space of from 30 to 33 years (Herodotus 2, 142, and others; Heraclitus in Plutarch, def. orac. c. 11), or ὁ χρόνος, ἐν ᾧ γεννῶντα παρέχει τὸν ἐξαὐτοῦ γεγεννημένον ὁ γεννήσας(Plutarch, the passage cited); in the N. T.common in plural: Ephesians 3:5 [Winers Grammar, § 31, 9 a.; Buttmann, 186 (161)]; παρῳχημέναις γενεαῖς in ages gone by, Acts 14:16; ἀπὸ τῶν γενεῶν for ages, since the generations began, Colossians 1:26; ἐκ γενεῶν ἀρχαίωνfrom the generations of old, from ancient times down, Acts 15:21; εἰς γενεὰςγενεῶν unto generations of generations, through all ages, forever (a phrase which assumes that the longer ages are made up of shorter; see αἰών, 1 a.): Luke 1:50 R L (דּוֹרִים לְדוֹר, Isaiah 51:8); εἰς γενεὰς κ. γενεάς unto generations and generations, ibid. T Tr WH equivalent to וָדוֹר לְדוֹר, Psalm 89:2; Isaiah 34:17; very often in the Sept.; [add, εἰς πάσας τὰςγενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν αἰώνων, Ephesians 3:21, cf. Ellicott at the passage] (γενεά is used of a century in Genesis 15:16, cf. Knobel at the passage, and on the senses of the word see the full remarks of Keim, iii. 206 [v. 245 English translation]).


All of this brings us to the fallacy of the illegitimate totality transfer when using a concordance or lexicon.

The illegitimate totality transfer is a formal logical fallacy (often discussed in biblical interpretation, law, or philosophy). It occurs when someone takes the totality of attributes, conditions, or meanings from one context and improperly applies them to another context, assuming that everything that applies in one case automatically applies in another.

In other words, if you use Strongs concordance to say γενεά (genea) can mean nation, generation, age, or time and thus genea in Matthew 24:34 can mean nation, you’ve have used the concordance incorrectly, and have committed the fallacy of the illegitimate totality transfer.

Additionally, If you used Thayers lexicon and saw that γενεά (genea) is defined as birth, family of same stock, multitude living at the same time or age, AND you saw that Thayers defines genea, in the context of Matthew 24:34 as a multitude living at the same time, BUT you argued that genea can mean family of same stock in the context of Matthew 24:34, then you have incorrectly used Thayers Greek lexicon and have committed the fallacy of the illegitimate totality transfer.

The point is that Thayer’s lexicon and strong’s concordances are not tools for selecting a definition to suit your theological preferences; rather, they exist to show the word’s usage and meaning in a specific context.
Only you are the authority and your Preterist keyboard friends are the real scholarly authorities.

Yea right!

Anything in Scripture (or in the original language) that exposes the error of Preterism is dismissed.
 
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claninja

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Only you are the authority and your Preterist keyboard friends are the real scholarly authorities.

Yea right!

Anything in Scripture (or in the original language) that exposes the error of Preterism is dismissed.

Actually, I would argue preterism fails at this as well. We all need to do a better job at learning how to use lexicons and concordances appropriately.

For example, I know I have, and maybe you have seen this to, but the word for "about to be"....Preterists will argue Paul said the resurrection was "about to be" in acts 24:15. However, if we appeal to thayer's lexicon, it doesn't have that as a usage in that specific context:

  • 1. the participle, ὁ μέλλων, absolutely: τά μέλλοντα and τά ἐνεστῶτα are contrasted, Romans 8:38; 1 Corinthians 3:22; εἰς τό μέλλον, for the future, hereafter, Luke 13:9 (but see εἰς, A. II. 2 (where Grimm supplies ἔτος)); 1 Timothy 6:19; τά μέλλοντα, things future, things to come, i. e., according to the context, the more perfect state of things which will exist in the αἰών μέλλων, Colossians 2:17; with nouns, ὁ αἰών ὁ μέλλων, Matthew 12:32; Ephesians 1:21; ζωῆς τῆς νῦν καί τῆς μελλούσης, 1 Timothy 4:8; τήν οἰκουμένην τήν μέλλουσαν, Hebrews 2:5; τῆς μελλούσης ὀργῆς Matthew 3:7; τό κρίμα τό μέλλον, Acts 24:25; πόλις, Hebrews 13:14; τά μέλλοντα ἀγαθά, Hebrews 9:11 (but L Tr marginal reading WH text γενομένων); ; τοῦ μέλλοντος namely, Ἀδάμ, i. e. the Messiah, Romans 5:14.
 

claninja

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Only you are the authority and your Preterist keyboard friends are the real scholarly authorities.

Your condescending remarks aside, I was simply highlighting the correct way to use concordances and lexicons, albeit with a more controversial word. I was hoping for more of a response as to why the OP is wrong, as opposed to just personal insults.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Actually, I would argue preterism fails at this as well. We all need to do a better job at learning how to use lexicons and concordances appropriately.
I would say that preterists like you need to do a better job of relying on the Holy Spirit for discernment, as Paul wrote about in 1 Corinthians 2:9-16, instead of relying so much on their own human wisdom like the natural man does. Yes, Hebrew and Greek lexicons and concordances can be helpful, but what is included in them is based on men like Joseph Thayer's opinions. Even if we get some helpful information from these lexicons and concordances, we still need spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit. But, you come across as if you rely entirely on your own wisdom and on your own understanding of grammar rules and so on and I don't sense that you try to rely on the Holy Spirit's help for understanding at all.
 
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Gottservant

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[...]

The point is that Thayer’s lexicon and strong’s concordances are not tools for selecting a definition to suit your theological preferences; rather, they exist to show the word’s usage and meaning in a specific context.
I just barely understand the gist of what you are saying. Not a criticism, just saying 'have pity'!
 

Davidpt

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A Bible concordance is a word index for the Bible. It shows every verse where a particular word appears so you can easily find passages. For example, the online version of strongs concordance, from bluetterbible, shows where and how γενεά geneá is translated in English in the KJV:

I submitted the entire OP to Chatgpt to analyze and dissect.
---------------------------

Chatgpt:


✔️ 1. Where the Preterist Argument Is Correct
A. Strong’s is NOT a lexicon.

You can agree with the Preterist here. Strong’s is a concordance; its “definitions” are not contextual lexical entries. They are glosses—quick semantic pointers. They should never be used as a menu of possible meanings.

B. Illegitimate totality transfer is a real concern.

This is absolutely true.
You cannot say, “genea can mean this in some place, therefore it means that in Matthew 24:34.”
Context determines meaning.

✔️ 2. Where the Preterist Overstates Their Case

The Preterist is assuming:

“If Thayer lists multiple senses but assigns one to Matthew 24:34, all other senses are ruled out forever and cannot be argued for.”

This is not how lexicons work.

A. Lexicons are not infallible commentators.

Lexicons reflect scholarly judgment, but they:

sometimes disagree with one another,

sometimes reflect outdated 19th-century assumptions (Thayer is from 1889),

sometimes oversimplify difficult or debated passages.

Lexicons do not decide exegesis; they describe likely usages.
Scholars are free to disagree with Thayer or BDAG on specific verses and defend those arguments from the text.

B. Contextual meaning is determined by exegesis, not by what Thayer “assigns.”

Thayer’s assignment is an interpretation, not a linguistic law.

Therefore:

➡️ A non-preterist who argues “genea = this people/this race” in Matt 24:34 is NOT committing an illegitimate totality transfer IF they justify it from the context of Matthew 23–24.

They would only commit the fallacy if they said:

“genea CAN mean race, therefore it DOES mean race.”

But if they argue:

“Because of the context in Matthew 23–24, the most plausible meaning here is race,”

—then no fallacy has occurred.

✔️ 3. Why “race/people group” or “generation of this kind” is linguistically legitimate

Even though Preterists often claim otherwise, standard lexicons do acknowledge this meaning for γενεά.

A. Thayer himself explicitly includes the sense “race, family, lineage.”

He calls it:

“men of the same stock, a family.”

That is not an invented definition.
It is part of the attested semantic range of γενεά.

B. Other major lexicons agree.

BDAG (3rd ed.) gives definitions including:

“those descended from a common ancestor, clan, race”

“the sum total of those born at the same time, generation”

“the time span of a generation, age”

This means:

✔️ “race/people group” is a valid, attested meaning in professional lexicons.
✔️ It is not illegitimate totality transfer to argue that Matthew 24:34 uses that meaning if the context supports it.

✔️ 4. Contextual arguments against the Preterist reading (non-preterist position)

Here are standard scholarly arguments non-preterists use to justify a meaning like “this people,” “this race,” or “this type of generation,” rather than a literal 30-year period:

A. The phrase “this generation” in Matthew 23–24 may refer to:

The corrupt, unbelieving class of Jewish leadership, which Jesus repeatedly calls “this generation” in a moral sense (Matt 11–12; 23).

The Jewish people as a whole, i.e., “this race,” which will not pass away before all these events occur.

The end-time generation that sees the beginning of the signs will also see the conclusion (a common futurist reading).

These are contextual arguments—not lexical cherry-picking.

B. Matthew 24 mixes immediate (70 AD) and eschatological (end-of-age) elements.

Even many non-preterist commentators (Carson, France, Blomberg, Alford, Morris, Keener) argue that Jesus blends near and far prophecy.

If some events clearly did not occur in 70 AD, then “this generation” cannot simply be 30 years.

C. Jesus elsewhere uses “this generation” morally, not chronologically.

E.g., Matt 12:39, 12:41–42, 12:45; Luke 11:50–51.

This supports “generation” as “a type of people” rather than a strictly chronological group.

None of these arguments commit illegitimate totality transfer.
They are based on:

Matthean usage patterns

narrative context

thematic continuity

intertextual echoes

✔️ 5. The core mistake in the Preterist’s claim

The Preterist is treating a lexicon’s contextual assignment as authoritative and binding, as though:

to disagree is “fallacious,” and

Thayer = the final court of appeal.

But:

❌ A lexicon is descriptive, not prescriptive.

It does not decide exegesis for disputed passages.

❌ Disagreeing with Thayer is not a logical fallacy.

It is perfectly normal scholarly work.

❌ Arguing for “race/people” from context is NOT illegitimate totality transfer

—if the argument is contextual, not lexical-shopping.
 
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claninja

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Where the Preterist Overstates Their Case

The Preterist is assuming:

“If Thayer lists multiple senses but assigns one to Matthew 24:34, all other senses are ruled out forever and cannot be argued for.”

This is not how lexicons work.

A. Lexicons are not infallible commentators.

Lexicons reflect scholarly judgment, but they:

sometimes disagree with one another,

sometimes reflect outdated 19th-century assumptions (Thayer is from 1889),

sometimes oversimplify difficult or debated passages.

Lexicons do not decide exegesis; they describe likely usages.
Scholars are free to disagree with Thayer or BDAG on specific verses and defend those arguments from the text.

B. Contextual meaning is determined by exegesis, not by what Thayer “assigns.”

Thayer’s assignment is an interpretation, not a linguistic law.

Therefore:

➡️ A non-preterist who argues “genea = this people/this race” in Matt 24:34 is NOT committing an illegitimate totality transfer IF they justify it from the context of Matthew 23–24.

They would only commit the fallacy if they said:

“genea CAN mean race, therefore it DOES mean race.”

But if they argue:

“Because of the context in Matthew 23–24, the most plausible meaning here is race,”

—then no fallacy has occurred.

✔️ 3. Why “race/people group” or “generation of this kind” is linguistically legitimate

Even though Preterists often claim otherwise, standard lexicons do acknowledge this meaning for γενεά.

A. Thayer himself explicitly includes the sense “race, family, lineage.”

He calls it:

“men of the same stock, a family.”

That is not an invented definition.
It is part of the attested semantic range of γενεά.

B. Other major lexicons agree.

BDAG (3rd ed.) gives definitions including:

“those descended from a common ancestor, clan, race”

“the sum total of those born at the same time, generation”

“the time span of a generation, age”

This means:

✔️ “race/people group” is a valid, attested meaning in professional lexicons.
✔️ It is not illegitimate totality transfer to argue that Matthew 24:34 uses that meaning if the context supports it.

✔️ 4. Contextual arguments against the Preterist reading (non-preterist position)

Here are standard scholarly arguments non-preterists use to justify a meaning like “this people,” “this race,” or “this type of generation,” rather than a literal 30-year period:

A. The phrase “this generation” in Matthew 23–24 may refer to:

The corrupt, unbelieving class of Jewish leadership, which Jesus repeatedly calls “this generation” in a moral sense (Matt 11–12; 23).

The Jewish people as a whole, i.e., “this race,” which will not pass away before all these events occur.

The end-time generation that sees the beginning of the signs will also see the conclusion (a common futurist reading).

These are contextual arguments—not lexical cherry-picking.

Just like people, ChatGPT can also unintentionally misrepresent an argument.

The OP never states that thayers is the absolute authority on genea meaning generation in Matthew 24:34.

The OP is about using a lexicon correctly. Words often have multiple possible meanings, and a good lexicon reflects that. In Thayer’s, for example, genea can mean “birth,” “a family or people of the same stock,” “a multitude living at the same time,” or even “an age.” But this does not mean the word carries all those meanings in every verse.

A lexicon is not giving you a menu of options to choose from; it is helping you see the range of meanings and then showing which meaning fits each specific context. That’s why Thayer’s lists biblical references under each sense—because the context determines which meaning applies in any given passage. Thayer’s lexicon has determined that genea in the context of Matthew 24:34 means a multitude living at the same time. So to argue, using thayer’s lexicon, that genea means family of same stock in regards to Matthew 24:34 is incorrect.

The point is, if you are going to use thayers, use it correctly. If you disagree with thayers, don’t use it. Use another resource to support your argument. The problem is that so many on this forum cherry pick the sense or gloss in thayer’s to support their position while ignoring how thayer’s actually defines it in context.

And heads up, the BDAG is a fantastic lexicon, which defines genea, in the context of Matthew 24:34 as “multitude living at the same time” .
 

WPM

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And heads up, the BDAG is a fantastic lexicon, which defines genea, in the context of Matthew 24:34 as “multitude living at the same time” .

This phrase exposes your skewed approach to understanding the original language. Anything that aligns with what you have been taught is "fantastic." Anything that does not is horrible. That is why it is hard to take Preterists serious. They are fixated with the coming of Titus and AD70. The rest of us Bible-believing Christians are fixated with Christ and His First and Second Advents.
 

claninja

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I would say that preterists like you need to do a better job of relying on the Holy Spirit for discernment, as Paul wrote about in 1 Corinthians 2:9-16, instead of relying so much on their own human wisdom like the natural man does. Yes, Hebrew and Greek lexicons and concordances can be helpful, but what is included in them is based on men like Joseph Thayer's opinions. Even if we get some helpful information from these lexicons and concordances, we still need spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit. But, you come across as if you rely entirely on your own wisdom and on your own understanding of grammar rules and so on and I don't sense that you try to rely on the Holy Spirit's help for understanding at all.

Without using any sort of tool, resource, or aide, can you please tell me what this says or means by simply AND only praying to the Spirit for Him to reveal it to you?

“πολλοὶ γάρ εἰσιν κλητοὶ ὀλίγοι δὲ ἐκλεκτοί”

unless your native language is first century koine Greek or God has just miraculously given you the gift of tongues, I’m assuming you can’t tell me what it says or means without an English resource - In other words you rely on the hard work or linguists, translators, commentators, and scholars that God has worked through.

Praying for understanding is extremely important. And so is not incorrectly using the tools that God has provided through the hard work of others.


You mean your opinion of the correct way. Why do you assume to be the ultimate authority on this?

I mean, I didn’t make any of this up. If you are unfamiliar with how to properly use a lexicon, blueletterbible, as well logos have some great resources and tutorials
 
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Davidpt

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Just like people, ChatGPT can also unintentionally misrepresent an argument.

The OP never states that thayers is the absolute authority on genea meaning generation in Matthew 24:34.

The OP is about using a lexicon correctly. Words often have multiple possible meanings, and a good lexicon reflects that. In Thayer’s, for example, genea can mean “birth,” “a family or people of the same stock,” “a multitude living at the same time,” or even “an age.” But this does not mean the word carries all those meanings in every verse.

A lexicon is not giving you a menu of options to choose from; it is helping you see the range of meanings and then showing which meaning fits each specific context. That’s why Thayer’s lists biblical references under each sense—because the context determines which meaning applies in any given passage. Thayer’s lexicon has determined that genea in the context of Matthew 24:34 means a multitude living at the same time. So to argue, using thayer’s lexicon, that genea means family of same stock in regards to Matthew 24:34 is incorrect.

The point is, if you are going to use thayers, use it correctly. If you disagree with thayers, don’t use it. Use another resource to support your argument. The problem is that so many on this forum cherry pick the sense or gloss in thayer’s to support their position while ignoring how thayer’s actually defines it in context.

And heads up, the BDAG is a fantastic lexicon, which defines genea, in the context of Matthew 24:34 as “multitude living at the same time” .

That aside. I then submitted my view of Matthew 24:34 to Chatgpt. Below is the polished result. Some of it involves Chatgpt analyzing what I have concluded. Therefore, when you see pronouns, such as 'you', 'your', etc in the text below, that is simply Chatgpt providing it's opinion of what I'm doing or not doing per my view of some of these things. I do not agree that this generation in Matthew 24:34 is meaning the Jews, though it will obviously include some of them.
------------------------


The word γενεά (genea) in Matthew 24:34 does not mean “the Jews” (ethnic view) nor “the people alive in AD 30–70” (preterist view), but the morally defined, age-long class of the wicked—“the world of the ungodly”—that persists until the return of Christ. This reading harmonizes with Jesus’ distinctive use of “generation,” the Old Testament background, Pauline usage, and the eschatology of 2 Peter 2–3.
I. Preterism’s Core Assertion

Preterism depends on one crucial assumption:

“This generation” in Matthew 24:34 must mean the people alive in AD 30–70, therefore all prophecies in Matthew 24 must have been fulfilled by AD 70.

If Matthew 24:34 refers instead to a morally-defined, transhistorical class of people, the entire preterist argument collapses.
II. The Fatal Flaw: Jesus Rarely Uses ‘Generation’ Chronologically

In the Gospels, when Jesus uses genea, He almost always means a moral category, not a 40-year period.

Examples:

Matthew 12:39 – “A wicked and adulterous generation
Matthew 12:45 – “This wicked generation
Matthew 16:4 – “A wicked and adulterous generation
Matthew 17:17 – “O faithless and twisted generation
Luke 11:29 – “This generation is an evil generation.”
Luke 11:50–51 – “The blood of the prophets… may be charged against this generation.”

In NONE of these cases is “generation” strictly the people living at that time. It is the enduring moral category of covenant-breaking humanity.

Preterism ignores this dominant Jesus-pattern.
III. The OT Background: ‘Generation’ Often Means a Moral Class

The Old Testament repeatedly uses “generation” (dor in Hebrew) morally:

Deuteronomy 32:5 – “A crooked and perverse generation.”
Psalm 12:7 – “You will keep them, O Lord; You will preserve them from this generation forever.”

Psalm 12:7 is devastating to the preterist reading:
“this generation” lasts forever.
It clearly refers to a persistent moral category, not to 40 years of people.
IV. Paul Also Uses ‘Generation’ Morally

Philippians 2:15:
“…in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation…”

Paul was not referring to the specific 40-year group of people alive with him; he was describing the fallen world-order in which Christians shine as lights.

This is the same usage Jesus employs.
V. Peter Defines the Two Generations: The Godly vs. The Ungodly

Your reading aligns perfectly with the eschatological structure in 2 Peter:

2 Peter 2 describes:

• the false teachers
• the ancient world of Noah
• Sodom and Gomorrah
• and the present wicked world

All of these belong to the same moral “generation of the ungodly.”

2 Peter 3 contrasts this present world of ungodliness with:

“new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells” (2 Pet 3:13)

Thus Peter sees two enduring orders of humanity:

1. The world of the ungodly (this generation)
2. The world of righteousness (the generation to come)

Peter’s “world of the ungodly” is the exact same category Jesus condemns as “this generation.”
VI. Matthew 23–24 Uses ‘Generation’ Morally, Not Chronologically

The context immediately before Matthew 24 is Matthew 23—where Jesus condemns:

• the hypocritical religious leaders
• the murderers of the prophets
• those who reject God’s messengers

He calls them:

“This generation” (Matt 23:36)

But notice:
He includes in this same “generation” all who murdered the prophets going back to Abel (Matt 23:35).

This cannot possibly be only the AD 30–70 group.

Jesus is defining “generation” morally and transhistorically—exactly the way you are interpreting Matthew 24:34.
VII. Matthew 24:34 in Context

Matthew 24:34 says:

“Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”

Given Jesus’ established usage, the OT background, and NT patterns, the natural reading is:

“The morally corrupt, unbelieving world-order will continue until every eschatological prophecy is fulfilled.”

This is consistent with:

• Jesus’ other teachings
• Paul
• Peter
• the OT
• and the structure of biblical eschatology

Preterism must impose an unnatural, strictly chronological meaning on a word Jesus consistently uses morally.

VIII. Why This Does NOT Commit the ‘Illegitimate Totality Transfer’

This is a common preterist accusation, but it is misplaced.

You are not doing this:
“Genea has many meanings, I’ll pick the one I like.”

You are doing this:
“Jesus repeatedly uses ‘genea’ in a moral, transhistorical sense, and the immediate context (Matt 23–24) reinforces this usage. Therefore, the same meaning applies in Matthew 24:34.”

This is contextual, not fallacious.

In fact, preterism commits a reverse fallacy:

The fallacy of illegitimate restriction:
Restricting a word’s meaning to one sense even when the context clearly supports another.
IX. The Preterist View Creates Major Theological Problems

The sun going dark, stars falling, angels gathering the elect, and the return of Christ did not happen in AD 70.

Preterists are forced into non-literal gymnastics (hyper-symbolism) to make all events fit AD 70.

They turn Matthew 24 into a prophecy of a minor regional event rather than the global cataclysm Jesus describes.

They remove the hope of Christ’s visible, glorious return as described by Jesus, Paul, and Peter.

They make Christ’s “coming” in AD 70 a local judgment event—contradicting the universal language of the text.

X. Conclusion

The preterist interpretation of “this generation” fails because it ignores the consistent biblical use of γενεά as a moral category of wicked humanity, not a 40-year timeframe.

The correct reading, consistent with Jesus, Paul, Peter, and the OT is:

Matthew 24:34:

“The ungodly world-order—the rebellious generation of fallen humanity—will not disappear until all the final events occur, including the visible return of the Son of Man.”

This view fits:

✔ Jesus’ usage
✔ the OT pattern
✔ the NT pattern
✔ moral-categorical language
✔ the broader eschatology of Scripture
✔ and avoids the contradictions created by preterism.
 

claninja

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That aside. I then submitted my view of Matthew 24:34 to Chatgpt. Below is the polished result. Some of it involves Chatgpt analyzing what I have concluded. Therefore, when you see pronouns, such as 'you', 'your', etc in the text below, that is simply Chatgpt providing it's opinion of what I'm doing or not doing per my view of some of these things. I do not agree that this generation in Matthew 24:34 is meaning the Jews, though it will obviously include some of them.
------------------------


The word γενεά (genea) in Matthew 24:34 does not mean “the Jews” (ethnic view) nor “the people alive in AD 30–70” (preterist view), but the morally defined, age-long class of the wicked—“the world of the ungodly”—that persists until the return of Christ. This reading harmonizes with Jesus’ distinctive use of “generation,” the Old Testament background, Pauline usage, and the eschatology of 2 Peter 2–3.
I. Preterism’s Core Assertion

Preterism depends on one crucial assumption:



If Matthew 24:34 refers instead to a morally-defined, transhistorical class of people, the entire preterist argument collapses.
II. The Fatal Flaw: Jesus Rarely Uses ‘Generation’ Chronologically

In the Gospels, when Jesus uses genea, He almost always means a moral category, not a 40-year period.

Examples:

Matthew 12:39
– “A wicked and adulterous generation
Matthew 12:45 – “This wicked generation
Matthew 16:4 – “A wicked and adulterous generation
Matthew 17:17 – “O faithless and twisted generation
Luke 11:29 – “This generation is an evil generation.”
Luke 11:50–51 – “The blood of the prophets… may be charged against this generation.”

In NONE of these cases is “generation” strictly the people living at that time. It is the enduring moral category of covenant-breaking humanity.

Preterism ignores this dominant Jesus-pattern.
III. The OT Background: ‘Generation’ Often Means a Moral Class

The Old Testament repeatedly uses “generation” (dor in Hebrew) morally:

Deuteronomy 32:5 – “A crooked and perverse generation.”
Psalm 12:7 – “You will keep them, O Lord; You will preserve them from this generation forever.”

Psalm 12:7 is devastating to the preterist reading:
“this generation” lasts forever.
It clearly refers to a persistent moral category, not to 40 years of people.
IV. Paul Also Uses ‘Generation’ Morally

Philippians 2:15:
“…in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation…”

Paul was not referring to the specific 40-year group of people alive with him; he was describing the fallen world-order in which Christians shine as lights.

This is the same usage Jesus employs.
V. Peter Defines the Two Generations: The Godly vs. The Ungodly

Your reading aligns perfectly with the eschatological structure in 2 Peter:

2 Peter 2 describes:

• the false teachers
• the ancient world of Noah
• Sodom and Gomorrah
• and the present wicked world

All of these belong to the same moral “generation of the ungodly.”

2 Peter 3
contrasts this present world of ungodliness with:

“new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells” (2 Pet 3:13)

Thus Peter sees two enduring orders of humanity:

1. The world of the ungodly (this generation)
2. The world of righteousness (the generation to come)


Peter’s “world of the ungodly” is the exact same category Jesus condemns as “this generation.”
VI. Matthew 23–24 Uses ‘Generation’ Morally, Not Chronologically

The context immediately before Matthew 24 is Matthew 23—where Jesus condemns:

• the hypocritical religious leaders
• the murderers of the prophets
• those who reject God’s messengers

He calls them:

“This generation” (Matt 23:36)

But notice:
He includes in this same “generation” all who murdered the prophets going back to Abel (Matt 23:35).

This cannot possibly be only the AD 30–70 group.

Jesus is defining “generation” morally and transhistorically—exactly the way you are interpreting Matthew 24:34.
VII. Matthew 24:34 in Context

Matthew 24:34 says:



Given Jesus’ established usage, the OT background, and NT patterns, the natural reading is:

“The morally corrupt, unbelieving world-order will continue until every eschatological prophecy is fulfilled.”

This is consistent with:

• Jesus’ other teachings
• Paul
• Peter
• the OT
• and the structure of biblical eschatology

Preterism must impose an unnatural, strictly chronological meaning on a word Jesus consistently uses morally.

VIII. Why This Does NOT Commit the ‘Illegitimate Totality Transfer’

This is a common preterist accusation, but it is misplaced.

You are not doing this:
“Genea has many meanings, I’ll pick the one I like.”

You are doing this:
“Jesus repeatedly uses ‘genea’ in a moral, transhistorical sense, and the immediate context (Matt 23–24) reinforces this usage. Therefore, the same meaning applies in Matthew 24:34.”

This is contextual, not fallacious.

In fact, preterism commits a reverse fallacy:

The fallacy of illegitimate restriction:
Restricting a word’s meaning to one sense even when the context clearly supports another.
IX. The Preterist View Creates Major Theological Problems

The sun going dark, stars falling, angels gathering the elect, and the return of Christ did not happen in AD 70.

Preterists are forced into non-literal gymnastics (hyper-symbolism) to make all events fit AD 70.

They turn Matthew 24 into a prophecy of a minor regional event rather than the global cataclysm Jesus describes.

They remove the hope of Christ’s visible, glorious return as described by Jesus, Paul, and Peter.

They make Christ’s “coming” in AD 70 a local judgment event—contradicting the universal language of the text.

X. Conclusion

The preterist interpretation of “this generation” fails because it ignores the consistent biblical use of γενεά as a moral category of wicked humanity, not a 40-year timeframe.

The correct reading, consistent with Jesus, Paul, Peter, and the OT is:

Matthew 24:34:

“The ungodly world-order—the rebellious generation of fallen humanity—will not disappear until all the final events occur, including the visible return of the Son of Man.”

This view fits:

✔ Jesus’ usage
✔ the OT pattern
✔ the NT pattern
✔ moral-categorical language
✔ the broader eschatology of Scripture
✔ and avoids the contradictions created by preterism.

This has nothing to do with the OP. The OP is about correctly using a concordance and lexicon.

What resource are you using to understand the Greek word genea?
 

claninja

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This phrase exposes your skewed approach to understanding the original language. Anything that aligns with what you have been taught is "fantastic." Anything that does not is horrible. That is why it is hard to take Preterists serious. They are fixated with the coming of Titus and AD70. The rest of us Bible-believing Christians are fixated with Christ and His First and Second Advents.

This doesn’t address the OP. Try again.
 

grafted branch

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VII. Matthew 24:34 in Context
Given Jesus’ established usage, the OT background, and NT patterns, the natural reading is:

“The morally corrupt, unbelieving world-order will continue until every eschatological prophecy is fulfilled.”
I don’t know if you noticed this but saying the morally corrupt, unbelieving world-order (that was prior to the cross) continues until all eschatological prophecy is fulfilled, actually would agree best with the preterist view.

Amill would say Satan was bound after the cross so the world-order was changed, as all power was given to Jesus after the cross.

Premill would say the world-order changes when Christ returns and sets up His kingdom to rule with the rod of iron.

A preterist might say the world-order of the old covenant lasted until all prophesy got fulfilled as in Luke 21:22.
 

WPM

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I don’t know if you noticed this but saying the morally corrupt, unbelieving world-order (that was prior to the cross) continues until all eschatological prophecy is fulfilled, actually would agree best with the preterist view.

Amill would say Satan was bound after the cross so the world-order was changed, as all power was given to Jesus after the cross.

Premill would say the world-order changes when Christ returns and sets up His kingdom to rule with the rod of iron.

A preterist might say the world-order of the old covenant lasted until all prophesy got fulfilled as in Luke 21:22.
  1. When did/does the old covenant end?
  2. When did/does the new covenant begin?
  3. When did/does "the last days" begin?
  4. When will "the last days" finish?
  5. When is "the last day" of "the last days"?
  6. What occurs on "the last day" of "the last days"?
  7. When is the "end of the age"?
  8. When is the day of redemption?
  9. When did/does "this age" arrive?
  10. When did/does "this age" end?
  11. When did/does the new heavens and new earth arrive?
  12. When did the kingdom of God begin?
  13. When did/does "the age to come" arrive?
  14. Is the second coming of Christ a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
  15. Is the resurrection of the dead a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
  16. Is the judgment of all a past event, an ongoing process or a literal physical future climactic event?
Please list the Scriptures you believe support these?
 
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