‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’?

[Wrangler]

There is a certain subject that the Jews had trouble with when Jesus the Christ was on earth in the flesh!! They had trouble with Him being One with the Father!!

So I guess it would not be surprising that there are those today who have trouble with the idea of the Oneness of God!! Some want to argue about how the Lord our God is One Lord - and that the Holy Spirit says Jesus Christ is Lord!

Obviously, the forbidden subject. Being "one" never meant 2 people are one being. It's really simple and an expression used today. There are many lords in the Bible, Jesus is one of them.

Anything you are saying or implying has to be understood in the context of who the man Jesus is in relation to his Father, the only true God.:

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ
Ephesian 1:3

There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus
1Timothy 2:5

For us, there is one God, the Father
1 COR 8:6

Father ... And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God
John 17:1, 3

 

[Johann]

Again, I am not trying to be presumptuous, but from what you are writing it seems like you might not be. It seems like you have done a fine job of studying the Bible, but it also seems like you don't understand that the writers of the Bible were writing so that you might actually seek the voice of the Lord and personally get to know Him!!!

--so I might seek "the voice?"

What gives you the impression I am not known by my Father eis Yeshua and the Ruach?

Shall I throw my Bible out the door and follow YOUR "Voice?"
I won't communicate with @Lizbeth from now on and you sir-are making a lot of uncalled for assumptions, not answering any of my questions.

 

[Johann]

If you know Him, then why do you seem upset. As for me, if someone wonders if I actually know Him, I rejoice that I have found another who knows Him! I love talking about Him, and the things He personally tells me. I have to go, but if you want to talk about Him and the personal things He speaks to you, I would love to also do that. He tells me things like:

Well - like when to go to the grocery store, and I need to now go do that like He told me, least my wife get up before I got her breakfast. :)

God speaks to believers today through various means, grounded in biblical teachings.

1. The Bible (Scripture)
The primary and most reliable way God speaks to believers is through His Word, the Bible. Scripture is considered the authoritative and inspired Word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ESV): "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

Hebrews 4:12 (ESV): "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

2. The Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit plays a crucial role in guiding, teaching, and comforting believers. He indwells believers and leads them into all truth.

John 14:26 (ESV): "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

John 16:13 (ESV): "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come."

3. Prayer
Through prayer, believers communicate with God, and He can speak to them, providing guidance, peace, and answers.

Philippians 4:6-7 (ESV): "Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."
Jeremiah 33:3 (ESV): "Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known."

4. Circumstances and Events
God can use circumstances and events in a believer's life to communicate His will and direction.

Romans 8:28 (ESV): "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."
Proverbs 3:5-6 (ESV): "Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths."
5. Other Believers (Counsel and Fellowship)
God often speaks through other believers, providing counsel, wisdom, and encouragement.

Proverbs 11:14 (ESV): "Where there is no guidance, a people falls, but in an abundance of counselors there is safety."
Hebrews 10:24-25 (ESV): "And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near."

6. Creation and Nature
God's creation declares His glory and can speak to believers about His nature and attributes.

Psalm 19:1-2 (ESV): "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge."
Romans 1:20 (ESV): "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."

Hence--
God speaks to believers through a variety of means, ensuring that His guidance, comfort, and truth are accessible. The Bible remains the primary and most authoritative source of God's communication, complemented by the Holy Spirit's guidance, prayer, circumstances, fellowship with other believers, and the natural world. These methods collectively provide a comprehensive understanding of God's will and presence in the lives of believers.

Scriptures is my primary source and truth since there are many "strange voices" roaming the Internet.

I don't need to "hear a voice" to say "go to gym" I just go.

 

[Behold]

Obviously, the forbidden subject. Being "one" never meant 2 people are one being.

God the Father and the Pre-Incarnate Word who John 1 = "was God"... are not "PEOPLE."

They are this.

"LET US.......make Man....in OUR Image"

See that?

A.) US, and OUR.

Thats 2.

 

[Karl Peters]

--so I might seek "the voice?"

What gives you the impression I am not known by my Father eis Yeshua and the Ruach?

Shall I throw my Bible out the door and follow YOUR "Voice?"
I won't communicate with @Lizbeth from now on and you sir-are making a lot of uncalled for assumptions, not answering any of my questions.

Ok back from the store:

AND OH MY

First - I never said to throw your Bible out. Indeed the first words MY "Voice", if you want to call Jesus Christ and Him speaking that, said to me was "Read Your Bible." And one of the ministries He had me do for Him was open and run a Christian bookstore for Him, which of course meant selling, and even giving away Bible as He asked at times. So who told you that I was suggesting to throw your Bible out. Do you not know that discernment of spirit also comes with practicing using your spiritual senses, like hearing from Him daily???

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Oh - but if I quote you a verse you want to say it is out of context without any support for your judgement:

you quote a bunch of verses out of context,

So let me give you more context with Heb 5:14

Heb 5: 8 -14 Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.
And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,
being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek.
Concerning him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you have need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God, and you have come to need milk and not solid food.
For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Jesus was the perfectly obedient Son of God of whom the Father said:

Luke 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”

And He was designated by God as a high priest, even our High Priest, that we need to listen to!!

Yet the Hebrews, which had been raised in the Scriptures and teachings of the Jews, were dull of hearing!!

Like someone wrote:

no-I don't hear "voices

So even though they were the ones raised with Scriptures, they were not qualified to teach!!!!!

And it is hard to explain this to them!!!

And so they had:

"need again for someone to teach you the elementary principles of the oracles of God"

Oracles are about hearing and speaking to God and comes from the Latin Orare - " to speak, plead, beg, beseech, entreat, pray."

That is not reading your Bible but it is communing - talking back and forth - with God!! And if you are dull of hearing, meaning you "don't hear "voices" - like you wrote - then you are dull of hearing!!!!

And this hardly hearing is a problem discussed in the Bible over and over and over - and with emphasis!! I did not capitalized the following verse, it was in the Bible that way!

Mat 13:15 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES,
OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,

Now we, all people, have senses. We have physical senses, and we have spiritual senses. But God is spirit. Not only God, but there are angles who serve Him and dark spiritual forces who rebel against Him. And if you can see and hear with your spiritual senses, you would know that there are more with us than against us. Of course is you "don't hear "voices" - like Johann wrote - then your hearing is dull and you are not even able to start to discern good and evil!!

Therefore someone is sent to you by God to give you the oracles of God again, which are the very basics of Christian understanding, and that our Lord Jesus Christ infact just standing there trying to get you to listen to Him speak to you via His Holy Spirit, so you will open up to Him and start listening to Him!! And that is why the Bible was written - so that you would seek Jesus Christ and listen to His Holy Spirit!!

Which explain why Paul only wanted to know one thing:

Gal 3:1,2 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

So when Lizbeth wrote you: "His sheep hear His voice. We are not to quench the SPIRIT"

You didn't understand that we quench the SPIRIT, by not hearing His voice - and by your own testimony about yourself, you don't hear voices!!

So if you don't hear spiritual voice, that means you are dull of hearing, have quenched the Holy Spirit, are not seeking the voice of Jesus Christ with comes via His Holy Spirit, have no ability to discern if a evil spirit or the Spirit of God is influencing you, which explains who is making you scared to go to a Pentacostal church where the voice of the Holy Spirit is heard, and so you go back to the Law and your understanding of the Bible (the Scriptures) and become unwilling to seek Jesus Christ and what He would say to you - and the whole Bible is written so that you will come to know Him, but your refuse to open up to Jesus Christ and hear what He would tell you!!!

I thought that was the case when I first started reading your posts! You are not the only person calling themselves a Christian who is doing this. And fortunately Jesus reproves those He loves least they die in their sins.

Rev 3:13‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’


Rev 3: 19 - 22 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’”

Is that enough verse and context around the message about hearing Jesus Christ via the Holy Spirit speaking to your spirit??

Well, maybe a bit more, because it is hard to explain to someone unwilling to seek the voice of the Lord that we need to seek the voice of the Lord, via His Holy Spirit!

Is 1:2, 3 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted against Me.
“An ox knows its owner,
And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know,
My people do not understand.”

So do you still not understand???

The Lord Jesus Christ, our Lord, is standing there trying to get you to listen to Him, but some are unwilling, even scared, so they will not listen to Him!!!

Ex 20:19 Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.”

You are not still saying in your heart, like Moses speak to me, "but let not God speak to me", like those before you at the foot of the mountain, are you? Well, He is still there trying to speak to His people, but will they listen?

Ps 81:13 “Oh that My people would listen to Me,
That Israel would walk in My ways!

It was all written so that He might get through to you and you would start listening to Him!! He has a voice, and His words are spirit, from the Holy Spirit to your spirit personally!! And that is what "Hear, O Isreal" is all about!!

 

[Karl Peters]

God speaks to believers today through various means, grounded in biblical teachings.

1. The Bible (Scripture)
The primary and most reliable way God speaks to believers is through His Word, the Bible. Scripture is considered the authoritative and inspired Word of God.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ESV): "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."

Hebrews 4:12 (ESV): "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

Let me just quote the above and show how wrong Johann has it.

First God speaks to us, and specifically God the Son. His name is called the Word of God and He is a person, not a book!!

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Indeed He was the person who came down out of heaven, took on flesh, and we read about in John

Jn 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

So He is the Word of God and He is not a book or writings!!

Your Bible, which is Scripture, is however the sacred writings. The Greek word for it is Graphe, and graphe is never translated "word" in your Bible!! So where it is written "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." it is not written "The Word is breathed out by God and profitable....." - but somehow Johann, and many other too, have gotten that plainly wrong!!

And because they get that wrong, and start calling the Scriptures (graphe in Greek) the Word, they then come to a wrong conclusion that the graphe is alive and active instead of Him, Jesus Christ being alive and active!!! And they start thinking that the Bible is a person!!!
They should have just used a bit more context to read the next verse after Hebrews 4:12 - which is:

Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

The Bible is obviously not person, not a Him, and the Bible can not see because it does not have eyes!! So the Bible is not the word of God that is alive and active. Isn't that just really really silly to think you Bible is alive, active, and has eyes to see things???

One day I was coming from church where a pastor was making that case, like Johann is making, and the Lord start speaking to me saying. "QUAD GOD, QUAD GOD, QUAH GOD", rather loudly in my ear via His Holy Spirit. So I said back to Him, "What are you trying to say Lord?"

To which He responded, "Karl, they are making it Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and their Bible! They have a quad god! They are making an idol out of their Bible!"

Yeah - if you are thinking your Bible is the living and active word of god, with eyes to see, then you indeed have made an idol out or your Bible!!!!

But you are not the first, not only one doing it. Jesus told the Jews:

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

And that is what we are talking about right here! If you are thinking that the Bible (that wood make paper and printed with ink) is alive and active, then you are probably thinking the bible and your reading and studying it, is going to save you. and that is not going to happen!! Your are going to die in your sins just like those Jews at that time who put Jesus Christ to death on some pieces of wood back then!!!

You are making an idol out of your Bible!!! You are studying it because you think it is God talking to you. It is now your idol, and you might die and go to hell with that misunderstanding!! So I take my time explaining this to save you from your error - and that per the instructions that come from my Lord Jesus Christ!! Preaching the Word means preaching Him, and that He speaks to us, His sheep!! We hear Him. We know Him. He teaches us!!

Still the Bible serves as a witness, the sacred writings, that are supposed to lead you to Jesus Christ!!

Is 30:8,9 Now go, write it on a tablet before them
And inscribe it on a scroll,
That it may serve in the time to come
As a witness forever.
For this is a rebellious people, false sons,
Sons who refuse to listen
To the instruction of the LORD;

If you are like a son to Him, and He is like a teacher to you, then you hear His voice, and regularly!!

Is 30: 21,22 Although the Lord has given you bread of privation and water of oppression, He, your Teacher will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher.
Your ears will hear a word behind you, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

I already testifies in this thread this morning about how the Lord told me to go to the store. He even specifically told me what to get, and even where to go in the store (left and to the right). and that is what it is like knowing Jesus Christ personally. And this morning He had me get cinnamon rolls with the icing on it. So not "bread of privation" in any sense!!!

But how can you explain something to those unwilling to listen. Can a thousand scriptures convince them. If they read about hearing, they will still "refuse to listen" won't they?

Maybe with a thousand one verses???

Gal 322 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Agh - they will still want to insist that the Scriptures are the living and active word of God who speaks to them and has eyes to see. So they can ignore all the Scriptures and not actually seek Jesus Christ for themselves!

 

[Johann]

One day I was coming from church where a pastor was making that case, like Johann is making, and the Lord start speaking to me saying. "QUAD GOD, QUAD GOD, QUAH GOD", rather loudly in my ear via His Holy Spirit. So I said back to Him, "What are you trying to say Lord?"

To which He responded, "Karl, they are making it Father, Son, Holy Spirit, and their Bible! They have a quad god! They are making an idol out of their Bible!"

Yeah - if you are thinking your Bible is the living and active word of god, with eyes to see, then you indeed have made an idol out or your Bible!!!!

Do me a favor-get off my back before you go on ignore-if god is "quacking in your ear" like a quack it is definitely not for me.

 

[Johann]

Of course is you "don't hear "voices" - like Johann wrote - then your hearing is dull and you are not even able to start to discern good and evil!!

Really? Looks you have no discernment at all-nada, zip.

I already testifies in this thread this morning about how the Lord told me to go to the store. He even specifically told me what to get, and even where to go in the store (left and to the right). and that is what it is like knowing Jesus Christ personally. And this morning He had me get cinnamon rolls with the icing on it. So not "bread of privation" in any sense!!!

Man! Wish I had a relationship with God like that! Him telling me how many potatoes to buy!

Agh - they will still want to insist that the Scriptures are the living and active word of God who speaks to them and has eyes to see. So they can ignore all the Scriptures and not actually seek Jesus Christ for themselves!

Allow me to correct you--
The phrase "Scripture is God-breathed" comes from 2 Timothy 3:16 in the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible. Let's break down the Greek text of this verse to understand its morphology and syntax:

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

Greek Analysis
Verse: πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος καὶ ὠφέλιμος πρὸς διδασκαλίαν, πρὸς ἐλεγμόν, πρὸς ἐπανόρθωσιν, πρὸς παιδείαν τὴν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ,

Key Phrases:

γραφὴ θεόπνευστος (graphē theopneustos):
γραφὴ (graphē): Nominative singular feminine noun meaning "Scripture" or "writing."
θεόπνευστος (theopneustos): Nominative singular masculine adjective derived from θεός (theos, God) and πνέω (pneō, to breathe). It means "God-breathed" or "inspired by God."
ὠφέλιμος πρὸς διδασκαλίαν (ōphelimos pros didaskalian):
ὠφέλιμος (ōphelimos): Nominative singular masculine adjective meaning "profitable" or "useful."
πρὸς (pros): Preposition meaning "for" or "to."
διδασκαλίαν (didaskalian): Accusative singular feminine noun meaning "teaching" or "instruction."
πρὸς ἐλεγμόν (pros elegmon):
ἐλεγμόν (elegmon): Accusative singular masculine noun meaning "reproof" or "rebuke."
πρὸς ἐπανόρθωσιν (pros epanorthōsin):
ἐπανόρθωσιν (epanorthōsin): Accusative singular feminine noun meaning "correction" or "improvement."
πρὸς παιδείαν (pros paideian):
παιδείαν (paideian): Accusative singular feminine noun meaning "instruction" or "training."
τὴν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ (tēn en dikaiosunē):
ἐν (en): Preposition meaning "in" or "with."
δικαιοσύνῃ (dikaiosunē): Dative singular feminine noun meaning "righteousness" or "justice."
Syntax and Morphology:

The phrase "γραφὴ θεόπνευστος" (graphē theopneustos) employs the nominative singular feminine noun "γραφή" (graphē, Scripture) with the nominative singular masculine adjective "θεόπνευστος" (theopneustos, God-breathed).

The construction "πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος" (pasa graphē theopneustos) means "all Scripture is God-breathed," emphasizing the divine inspiration and authority of Scripture.

The accusative phrases with "πρὸς" (pros, "for") indicate the purpose or benefit of Scripture: it is profitable for teaching, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness.
So--
This verse asserts that all Scripture is inspired by God (θεόπνευστος), emphasizing its divine origin and authority. The Greek words used highlight the nature of Scripture as God-breathed, conveying the idea that Scripture originates from God Himself and is thus trustworthy and authoritative for teaching, rebuke, correction, and training in righteousness.

Allez cancaner ailleurs !
J.

 

[Karl Peters]

People - We need to understand that God is there for ANYONE!!!

And that indeed does mean ANYONE!!

Moses was a murder, yet when he turned and approach the fire of God he was received by God!! He had to take his shoes off, which is to say his way of walking and thinking, but that is of course going to happen if you really seek what He has to say. It turns out that He is indeed soooooooo much smarter that you! And it turns out that He is God, but still He wants to help you, but you have to be willing to listen to Him and stop leaning on your own understanding!

And people, it is easy to hear from Him, though it is hard to believe that. So if a person was to simply ask something like, 'Jesus Christ, what do you think about me,', He will answer but can you believe that is so?

I worked five years in a Christian healing ministry and I got people, even "Christians" who had never heard from Him before, ask Him that question and they heard the answer, with a few exceptions. He sometimes had to have us do some other things, like perhaps lead them through forgiveness before they heard from Him. but pretty much all did wind up hearing from Him, and most on the first try. The harder part was just getting them to pray, "Jesus, how do you feel about me?" and getting them to consider what came back to them inside.

I would say, 'Ok, Just pray after me, "Jesus Christ, how do you feel about me?", and listen. But often they didn't just pray that because they didn't even think that He might speak to them enough to even try the prayer. That is how little faith most people have in Jesus Christ. And that is why we sometime had to lead them through forgiveness first. Because people tend to remember how bad they are before seeking Jesus Christ, and that gets them thinking He would never talk to them. But He knows how bad we are, and He wants to talk to us. How is He going to get us to change and be better if we don't actually listen to Him. So even if you were an actual murderer like Moses, He is going to and wants to talk to you. Can you believe that?

So if you were a religious hypocrite, which is better than a murderer, isn't it? He still wants to talk to you, but it might be harder to get yourself to listen because you spent a life-time leaning on your own pride. Still, people are called to get them to seek Him. Who was Jesus sent to first, if not the religious Jews?

Eze 3:5-9 “For you are not being sent to a people of unintelligible speech or difficult language, but to the house of Israel, nor to many peoples of unintelligible speech or difficult language, whose words you cannot understand. But I have sent you to them who should listen to you; yet the house of Israel will not be willing to listen to you, since they are not willing to listen to Me. Surely the whole house of Israel is stubborn and obstinate. “Behold, I have made your face as hard as their faces and your forehead as hard as their foreheads. “Like emery harder than flint I have made your forehead. Do not be afraid of them or be dismayed before them, though they are a rebellious house.”

One day he told me to open up my Bible to Ezekiel 3 and had me read. Then as I read I suddenly started hearing Him speak to me similar words. Yet what He spoke to me was personalized and a bit less Bible sounding and more personal sounding. It was more like 'Karl, I am not sending you to a foreign land but I am sending you to them who should listen to you. But they will be unwilling to listen to you because they are unwilling to listen to Me...'

And so it has been for a while now that He has me go to a Christian forum trying to get those people who should listen to Him to listen to Him. If you have a Bible and have read it, you should be listening to Him, should you not? It is written to do that soooo many places in the Bible, that I could post the verse in hundreds of posts - at least. But do we listen?

Some, but who listens enough, even if you listen. I don't! I only hear from the Lord a dozen or so different times a day. Whereas Jesus did and said only what the Father told Him. Still, try to find where anyone has something posted that they got specifically from Him? It is not easy to find that, but I will give you something He told me:

He once told me this little parable:

COWS:

The two cows stood there watching the cars go by. ZOOOMMMM!!! There goes a car! ZZOOOOMMMMM!! There goes another car. ZZZOOOOOMMMMMMM!!! There goes another car. As they looked, they saw a big truck coming
You know, those cows had better get off the road, because that truck is just too big to miss them!


How many times do we refuse to get off the man made road? We just keep watching things go by just missing us! Someday, something is going to come along that is just too big to miss us. Let’s go stand in the green pastures that God made for us, that’s where we belong.

So, He can tell you to go to the store and what to get. He can tell you the general purpose He has for you. He can give you little parables and sayings meant to help and teach you. But my favorite thing He tells me is, "Karl, I love you", and I often hear that too.

He says so many wonderful things, so why don't we listen more?

I have to go. He has some other work to do. God Bless

 

[Lizbeth]

..

The above post is done very well, and has more understanding in it than I think most people would understand.

It is important to note that we are people and not God. Having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ means that we know Him, THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, and so if He tells us to go do something for Him, we go with all the authority and power of God behind us - like in the verse quoted in the above post - "we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were imploring you through us".

So if we indeed know and listen to Jesus Christ, via the Holy Spirit, we have the words of God spoken to us personally and with instructions from the King. So Christians, if they indeed are His sheep you indeed do hear His voice, are all a nation of ambassadors of Christ (God the Son). And that is how we become one with God - egs gods.

The real importance and depths of this understanding is amazing, if you really consider it. And the Lord asked me to work in a Christian healing ministry for five years to help me personally understand the importance and depths of this.

In that ministry, the key to doing it properly was to listen to the Lord while doing the ministry and do what He asked you to do. Which is to say the key to really being a Christian is to listen to Him and do what He askes. Because if we are listening to Him and doing what He says we have the full authority and power of God backing us up. So if the Lord wants a miracle done (a divine act of God) He can tells us the part we need to play in it (like perhaps calling for the healing as and when He tells you) and then God and His Kingdom (angels who also serve Him) act and the miracles occurs.

Mark 16:17-20“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed. And they promptly reported all these instructions to Peter and his companions. And after that, Jesus Himself sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation.

A couple of things to note in the above verses at the end of Mark. Note that Jesus returned to the right hand of God which we know is on the throne of God. We read " Jesus Himself sent" so we are to be getting our instructions from Jesus Himself! (listen to Him) and note: "the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word" - meaning that while He tells us what He wants us to do, it is He Himself who actually does the confirming (the miracles of God and other signs) that follow what we do and say as ambassadors of Him.

Now sometimes I have run across a quote 'Christian' who is using the name of Jesus Christ like a magic saying. Which is to say they are claiming to have the power of God but they are not listening to Him. So, He is not their Lord! And they are not His ambassador. And for a couple of reasons that might even seem to work for a bit.

One reason is that the demons might indeed flee at the Lord's name, because they might think the authority and power is behind what you say. Of course, if they figure out that you are not actually hearing from the Lord then you might be in even more trouble. The seven sons of Sceva were doing this.

Acts 19:14-16 Seven sons of one Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
And the evil spirit answered and said to them, “I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?”
And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaped on them and subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Too often I have heard people in churches say to just pray in the name of Jesus, but they don't say to listen to Jesus Christ for your instructions. And those people I have heard in church are often, like Sceva, in a chief position in that church. They just wind up raising up a bunch of "sons" that go around using the name of Jesus without actually hearing from Him. They are not ambassadors of the KING OF KINGS! An ambassador must get their instructions from the King!!!

Another reason is that the Lord knows all things which are going on at all times. So if He is raising up a new Christian, He Himself might perform the miracles requested, even though the new Christian didn't actually listen to Him for the instruction, so that the new Christian will understand that they do have access to all the authority and power of THE KING, behind them.

continued:

......keeping in mind that there are different gifts for different people (maybe at different times and circumstances as well, sometimes). Some He may lead through hearing His voice in their spirit, others may be led by an unction/impulse, or the Lord may just decide to "take over"..... etc. Yes, signs follow the preaching of the gospel...this is to help open people's hearts to it I believe.

 

[Johann]

..

......keeping in mind that there are different gifts for different people (maybe at different times and circumstances as well, sometimes). Some He may lead through hearing His voice in their spirit, others may be led by an unction/impulse, or the Lord may just decide to "take over"..... etc. Yes, signs follow the preaching of the gospel...this is to help open people's hearts to it I believe.

Do you believe in signs after the Apostles died? And I know exactly which Scripture you are going to post-I believe God can heal, in a dream, but it is not the norm.

For people to believe in Christ Jesus signs is not a requirement-it is wholly a work of God in Christ and the Holy Spirit.
And preaching the gospel is the dunamis of God unto salvation--

Romans 1:16-17 (KJV)
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith."

This passage underscores that salvation is through faith in the gospel, not through signs or wonders.

Romans 10:17 (KJV)
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Paul emphasizes that faith comes from hearing the word of God, highlighting the importance of the message rather than signs.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (KJV)
"(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)"
This verse directly states that believers live by faith and not by visible signs.

Galatians 3:2-5 (KJV)
"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?"
Paul asks the Galatians if they received the Spirit by observing the law or by believing what they heard, emphasizing faith over miraculous signs.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Salvation is by grace through faith, which is a gift from God and not dependent on works or signs.

Philippians 3:9 (KJV)
"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"
Righteousness comes through faith in Christ, not through the law or signs.

Colossians 2:6-7 (KJV)
"As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving."
Believers are encouraged to live in Christ just as they received Him—through faith.

1 Thessalonians 2:13 (KJV)
"For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe."
The Thessalonians received the word of God through faith, not through signs.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 (KJV)
"For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
Faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus is the basis for hope, rather than reliance on signs.

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)
"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."
Salvation comes through faith in Christ as revealed in the scriptures.
These references collectively show that the emphasis in Pauline theology is on faith in Jesus Christ, grounded in the message of the gospel and the scriptures, rather than on signs and wonders.

Signs follow the preaching of the gospel? Show me the Church and I will be right there @Lizbeth.

 

[Lizbeth]

I find this interesting, because you had a very nice post about being ambassadors of God, but you seem to fail to understand what exactly your post meant.

If a Good King tells you to go speak in His name, will He not then back you up with His Kingdom????

Now Lizbeth wrote: "His sheep hear His voice. We are not to quench the SPIRIT"

And you responded with "Let's just agree to disagree Lizbeth-to this day I have been scarred by Pentecostalism from a very young age."??

Is it not written:

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life." ?

Now the Lord mostly tends to take me to what we call Charismatic churches, but I fell right at home is the Pentecostal churches I have gone to. It is obvious to me that the same Holy Spirit operates in both of them. Indeed, because He had me open and run a Christian bookstore for Him, I have seen that that same Holy Spirit operates in some way or another in all His churches - in ALL His Church. Yet it seems that all His churches seem to have one similar issue, and that is that they in one way or another keep those with and ear to hear from hearing what the Spirit has to say! Is that the reason you "have been scarred by Pentecostalism from a very young age and then fell into another ditch-Calvinism.", like you say?

Did we not read that "‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ was written to all seven churches in the book of Revelation? It seems like you have great head knowledge of the Lord but lack a real understanding of what you know. It almost seems you know a lot about the Lord but do not actually know the Lord.

So my question to you is, how often do you really take time to take back and forth with Him personally?

Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.

There is a day what each of us need to reason with the Lord - telling Him what we think so that He can tell us what He thinks (reasoning with Him) and that day to hear from His is Today, is it not?

Heb 3:7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, “TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,

Heb 3:13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

His sheep do hear His voice, and on that day called "Today", right?

And Indeed, to be an ambassador a person must hear the voice of the King , right?
And if the King, then the One who as Lord gives instructions, right?
And if instructions to command healing in His name, then the authority and power of the King, right?

And was this not the reason Lizbeth wrote:
"but this is why the Lord said if we ask for bread He will not give us a stone. etc...how much more will He give of His SPIRIT to those who ask? As long as our hearts are right and we handle it with a mature attitude. We have a living relationship with the LIVING God. I'm sad for those who would cut themselves off from the fullness and richness of having been reconciled "

Perhaps I am wrong - but it seems that Lizbeth has a deep personal relationship with the Lord where as you have a good knowledge about Him, but do you actually know Him, personally?

I don't mean to be too presumptuous, but if we really do believe in Him we believe in Him who wants to talks to us personally!! Indeed, He is just standing there speaking and if anyone hears His voice and opens up to Him He will come into them and eat with them and them with Him. So do you not go to lunch, so to speak, with Him and discussed things, back and forth, with Him? If so, has He not told you about the power and authority of God that is fully available to you, and that is comes from doing what He asks as a King might ask and ambassador to go and to what the King asks and the Kingdom will back you up?

Careful not to jump to conclusions. There are different gifts for different members of the Body. And I think there needs to be this thing called grace extended to those who have been traumatized by off- the- wall cultish churches. It so often happens in places like those, that when fireworks dont happen to someone after much ado, many times the "candidate" is told they must not be saved! Whoa, whoa.

Let me tell you what happened to me at a Pentecostal church many years ago where I was living.....after attending for a while I "applied" to become a member and was told to show up one evening at the church in their office area. I was alone and there were three strange men there who I had never met or even heard of, I'm guessing from somewhere higher up in the hierarchy of the Pentecostal organization. I was brought into a dimly lit room where they began to lay hands on and pray for me to receive the Holy Spirit and pray in tongues.....I was terrified! How could I receive anything from the Lord in that state? Anyhow they tried and tried with much sweating and fervency and I just wished it was over and wanted to run out of there to somewhere safe! It was all wrong...to start with why only pray for those who apply for "official membership" and why not during church gatherings?.......I'm sure they meant well but the whole thing was so misguided and insensitive. But I'm the one who left feeling like I had "failed" somehow. Anyway I have heard of much worse situations, so can't say I blame Johan for being leery.

 

[Johann]

Careful not to jump to conclusions. There are different gifts for different members of the Body. And I think there needs to be this thing called grace extended to those who have been traumatized by off- the- wall cultish churches. It so often happens in places like those, that when fireworks dont happen to someone after much ado, many times the "candidate" is told they must not be saved! Whoa, whoa.

Let me tell you what happened to me at a Pentecostal church many years ago where I was living.....after attending for a while I "applied" to become a member and was told to show up one evening at the church in their office area. I was alone and there were three strange men there who I had never met or even heard of, I'm guessing from somewhere higher up in the hierarchy of the Pentecostal organization. I was brought into a dimly lit room where they began to lay hands on and pray for me to receive the Holy Spirit and pray in tongues.....I was terrified! How could I receive anything from the Lord in that state? Anyhow they tried and tried with much sweating and fervency and I just wished it was over and wanted to run out of there to somewhere safe! It was all wrong...to start with why only pray for those who apply for "official membership" and why not during church gatherings?.......I'm sure they meant well but the whole thing was so misguided and insensitive. But I'm the one who left feeling like I had "failed" somehow. Anyway I have heard of much worse situations, so can't say I blame Johan for being leery.

Much worse when I was a young lad with my brother in a small town called Brakpan-much, much worse and yet I can give you testimony after testimony how the Lord was and still is dealing in my life and circumstances, despite the loss of my dear wife a couple of years ago,my brothers, my mom and dad.
Thank you for having my back @Lizbeth-not many are willing to do what you do here and for this you have my deepest gratitude and I know you are the real deal-in Afrikaans-"Jy is yster!" you are truly a huios of our dear God and Father and Jesus Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Shalom to you and family.
Johann.

 

[Lizbeth]

Do you believe in signs after the Apostles died? And I know exactly which Scripture you are going to post-I believe God can heal, in a dream, but it is not the norm.

Hi brother....yes I do believe the Lord still does those things today...."I the Lord do not change"....that's what is coming to mind at the moment. I believe He may heal in any manner He chooses....I don't think Jesus healed the same way twice that we see in scripture, but was always led by the Father. There are no formulas, or shouldnt be. I've experienced a healing/deliverance myself once, just lying on the couch by myself and pleading with the Lord for help. And I've seen the Lord work with signs amongst Jewish unbelievers...Jewish health care facility that I worked at for a number of years. (Not every day, but a few times.)

One thing that seems to be a factor is need....prosperous western societies have access to good medical care and so don't need the Lord to heal as much as people in places or circumstances where they have no other options. Like it's hard to learn to rely on the Lord for provision if you have a fat bank account....He generally has to empty one's bank account first in order to teach someone to trust Him in the area of provision. :)

For people to believe in Christ Jesus signs is not a requirement-it is wholly a work of God in Christ and the Holy Spirit.
And preaching the gospel is the dunamis of God unto salvation--

Amen..absolutely agree. Signs are not necessary and have nothing to do with someone being saved in itself. Lots of people get saved without seeing a miracle, just experiencing the miracle of having been blind but now seeing (spiritually speaking). Just that I believe it can sometimes help a person or persons to be receptive to the gospel. It is the Lord backing up His word with power. But we should never seek signs and miracles for their own sakes, for 'spiritual entertainment'....the only thing we should ever seek is the Lord Himself, and His will and He will act when and as He wills. And not for deliberate public display as if it's a circus. These are precious things that belong to the Lord (though normal for Him- we shouldn't make too much of it)....it's not for anyone to presumptuously do with as they please. Jesus never sought the limelight or to put miracles on display in such a gawdy manner. And He often even told people to tell no one.

 

[Johann]

Hi brother....yes I do believe the Lord still does those things today...."I the Lord do not change"....that's what is coming to mind at the moment. I believe He may heal in any manner He chooses....I don't think Jesus healed the same way twice that we see in scripture, but was always led by the Father. There are no formulas, or shouldnt be. I've experienced a healing/deliverance myself once, just lying on the couch by myself and pleading with the Lord for help. And I've seen the Lord work with signs amongst Jewish unbelievers...Jewish health care facility that I worked at for a number of years. (Not every day, but a few times.)

One thing that seems to be a factor is need....prosperous western societies have access to good medical care and so don't need the Lord to heal as much as people in places or circumstances where they have no other options. Like it's hard to learn to rely on the Lord for provision if you have a fat bank account....He generally has to empty one's bank account first in order to teach someone to trust Him in the area of provision. :)


Amen..absolutely agree. Signs are not necessary and have nothing to do with someone being saved in itself. Lots of people get saved without seeing a miracle, just experiencing the miracle of having been blind but now seeing (spiritually speaking). Just that I believe it can sometimes help a person or persons to be receptive to the gospel. It is the Lord backing up His word with power. But we should never seek signs and miracles for their own sakes, for 'spiritual entertainment'....the only thing we should ever seek is the Lord Himself, and His will and He will act when and as He wills. And not for deliberate public display as if it's a circus. These are precious things that belong to the Lord (though normal for Him- we shouldn't make too much of it)....it's not for anyone to presumptuously do with as they please. Jesus never sought the limelight or to put miracles on display in such a gawdy manner. And He often even told people to tell no one.

One day I will open up to you Lizbeth-God willing-not now, not on a public forum..
God bless your dear heart.
Johann.

 

[Lizbeth]

Much worse when I was a young lad with my brother in a small town called Brakpan-much, much worse and yet I can give you testimony after testimony how the Lord was and still is dealing in my life and circumstances, despite the loss of my dear wife a couple of years ago,my brothers, my mom and dad.
Thank you for having my back @Lizbeth-not many are willing to do what you do here and for this you have my deepest gratitude and I know you are the real deal-in Afrikaans-"Jy is yster!" you are truly a huios of our dear God and Father and Jesus Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit.

Shalom to you and family.
Johann.

Oh I'm so sorry for all that you've been through....there is so much evil in this world and in the church, it grieves my heart.... and God IS going to judge it one day soon. Praise the Lord for His faithfulness and kindnesses to you....shalom and blessings to you as well brother.

 

[Lizbeth]

One day I will open up to you Lizbeth-God willing-not now, not on a public forum..
God bless your dear heart.
Johann.

I understand Johann.....feel free to PM me if you feel like talking any time. God bless.

 

[Johann]

Oh I'm so sorry for all that you've been through....there is so much evil in this world and in the church, it grieves my heart.... and God IS going to judge it one day soon. Praise the Lord for His faithfulness and kindnesses to you....shalom and blessings to you as well brother.

Just me and my cerebral palsied son and his nanny. But it is well with my soul.

 

[Lizbeth]

Just me and my cerebral palsied son and his nanny. But it is well with my soul.

The Lord bless all of you then......and amen to your faith. Looking ahead to a rich reward for all the suffering in this life that will far out weigh it all. You are making me ashamed of feeling sorry for myself at times with my problems! How old is your son?

 

[Johann]

I understand Johann.....feel free to PM me if you feel like talking any time. God bless.

The Lord bless all of you then......and amen to your faith. Looking ahead to a rich reward for all the suffering in this life that will far out weigh it all. You are making me ashamed of feeling sorry for myself at times with my problems! How old is your son?

Son of my wife-Alan-40 years old and wheelchair bound.