110Isaiah 53

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Webers_Home

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A popular Jewish interpretation of Isa 53:11 is that 49:1-3 identifies the
servant as the corporate people of Israel.

Christians have to accept that there's a kernel of truth in the Jewish
interpretation because Christ testified that salvation is of the Jews (John
4:22). However the Jews of Isaiah's day have to be ruled out of the equation
because his prophecy portrays them as rotten to the core. Not one good
thing is credited to the people of Israel in Isaiah's day anywhere in the whole
book. In point of fact, the very first chapter portrays them as rebellious
children who have no more appreciation for God's providence than burros
and oxen. The 49th chapter depicts them as needy of spiritual renewal (Isa
49:5-6) and in the 58th chapter they are depicted as lawbreakers,
hypocritical, self righteous, wicked, oppressive, uncharitable, cruel, and
unloving (Isa 58:1-7). The 53rd chapter itself depicts them all as astray,
transgressors, iniquitous, and deserving punishment, whereas the servant is
depicted as in favor with God (Isa 53:2), and innocent (Isa 53:5, Isa 53:6,
Isa 53:8, and Isa 53:9)

However, there is a day coming when every Jew residing in the State of
Israel will be 110% righteous to a man (Isa 60:21). But of course not before
the fulfillment of the prediction recorded at Ezek 36:24-27.

Now, the way I see it: there's a couple of ways we can go with this. Either
we punish the whole kit and kaboodle of those future 110% righteous Jews
in order to atone for the sins of their ancestors, or we punish just one. Well;
the retribution is quite severe and results in the servant's death (Isa 52:13
14, Isa 53:8-9) so that punishing all of the 110% righteous Jews in total
would result in an all-encompassing, nation-wide genocide in the State of
Israel. So in my estimation, it would be better for all concerned to seek out a
particularly gifted individual-- the pick of the litter so to speak --to represent
the righteous people of Israel and lay the sins of their ancestors all on
him. The man selected has to be a Jew though or it won't work because no
other race of people can fulfill Isa 49:1-3 and John 4:22.

Option #2 was the choice of some of the old-time rabbis. The Talmud
teaches that Isaiah 53 refers to Messiah (Sanhedrin 98). The Targum of
Jonathan begins it with the words Ha yatslakh avdee Mashikha, which mean:
Behold my servant the Messiah shall prosper. Others believed Isaiah 53
spoke of the sufferings of Messiah; e.g. Rabbi Moshe Kohen Ibn Crispin
(a.k.a. Ibn Krispin).

Rabbi Mosheh El-Sheikh (a.k.a. Alshekh) claimed: "our Rabbis with one voice
accept and affirm the opinion that the prophet [Isaiah] is speaking of King
Messiah."

King Messiah goes by a variety of labels in the Old Testament. At Isa 11:1
10 he's called "a sprig of Jesse" viz: a man of the house of David. At Jer
23:5-6, Jer 33:15-16, Zech 3:8-9, and Zech 6:12-13 he's called "the
branch". In every instance wherein Messiah's character is mentioned, he's
always portrayed as a man of impeccable integrity, and unfailing
righteousness, justice, equity, and faithfulness-- just the ticket.


Buen Camino
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laid renard

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Webers_Home said:
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A popular Jewish interpretation of Isa 53:11 is that 49:1-3 identifies the
servant as the corporate people of Israel.

Christians have to accept that there's a kernel of truth in the Jewish
interpretation because Christ testified that salvation is of the Jews (John
4:22). However the Jews of Isaiah's day have to be ruled out of the equation
because his prophecy portrays them as rotten to the core. Not one good
thing is credited to the people of Israel in Isaiah's day anywhere in the whole
book. In point of fact, the very first chapter portrays them as rebellious
children who have no more appreciation for God's providence than burros
and oxen. The 49th chapter depicts them as needy of spiritual renewal (Isa
49:5-6) and in the 58th chapter they are depicted as lawbreakers,
hypocritical, self righteous, wicked, oppressive, uncharitable, cruel, and
unloving (Isa 58:1-7). The 53rd chapter itself depicts them all as astray,
transgressors, iniquitous, and deserving punishment, whereas the servant is
depicted as in favor with God (Isa 53:2), and innocent (Isa 53:5, Isa 53:6,
Isa 53:8, and Isa 53:9)
I never knew this. I know they rejected Christ, but always thought the Jews of that day had an utmost reverence towards God.
 

Webers_Home

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laid renard said:
I never knew this. I know they rejected Christ, but always thought
the Jews of that day had an utmost reverence towards God.
The people of Israel were under the heel of Roman domination when Jesus
was here-- a situation that would not have been had Yhvh's people, as a
people, been in compliance with the covenant that their ancestors agreed
upon with God as per Deut 29:9-5.

†. Deut 29:1-2 . . And it will be if you obey the Lord, your God, to observe
to fulfill all His commandments which I command you this day, the Lord,
your God, will place you supreme above all the nations of the earth.

They were definitely not supreme above all the nations of the earth when
Jesus was here; which of course indicates that they were not conscientious
in fulfilling all His commandments which God commanded them as per the
covenant.

†. Deut 28:13 . .The Lord will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay
attention to the commands of The Lord your God that I give you this day
and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the
bottom.

God is covenanted with the Jews to fulfill those promises; which He
must
do or otherwise He be found in breach of contract; which is exactly why
they are not supreme above the nations of the earth even today in our time.

Bottom line is: the Jews, as a people, haven't had an utmost reverence for
God for many, many centuries; and if truth be known, that's precisely why
so many of them were taken in the Holocaust. In point of fact: Lev 26:3-38,
Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 obligate God to let them be taken in horrors
like the Holocaust; viz: God has to throw them to the wolves from time to
time in order to protect His reputation as someone who can be trusted
to honor their commitments.


Buen Camino
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Webers_Home

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RANDOR said:
Your reaction doesn't surprise me; but what does surprise me is the number
of Jews that I encounter online who seem unaware that the covenant to
which their ancestors agreed with God as per Deut 29:5-9 is a legal contract
containing provisions with which both they and God are obligated to comply.
Well; maybe they don't take their obligations seriously; but God does and
that's why the bulk of their history is the story of a hard-luck kid.

†. Zech 7:11-14 . . But they refused to pay attention, and turned a stubborn
shoulder and stopped their ears from hearing. And they made their hearts
like flint so that they could not hear the law and the words which Yhvh of
legions had sent by His spirit through the former prophets. Therefore great
wrath came from Yhvh of legions. And it came about that just as He called
and they would not listen, so they called and I would not listen-- testifies
Yhvh of legions.

We're always hearing advice to read the fine print before signing a contract.
Well the covenant's fine print at Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut
28:1-69 is not only sobering; but downright terrifying.


You know what's tragic? According to Ex 34:6-7, the Jews of today who
breach the covenant are endangering the Jews of tomorrow and quite
possibly setting them up for yet another Holocaust right inside their own
homeland. I sincerely believe that Saddam Hussein's SCUDS were a wake-up
call. Next time; incoming missiles just may contain nuclear warheads instead
of high explosives; and thousands of Jews will die of radiation poisoning
instead of pesticide.


Buen Camino
/
 

DPMartin

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webers home

Salvation is of the Jews, was said in the context of the Lord Jesus speaking to the woman at the well. Who was a Samaritan that stated that her fathers worship in the mountain she referred to. Therefore Jesus saying that salvation is of the jews in response to her remark about the Jews saying worship should be in Jerusalem and not the mountain she mentions. And He, Jesus agreeing that the instruction to worship the God of Israel in Jerusalem do to the fact that the temple is the agreed place between the God of Israel and the Children of Israel that God chose for such activity to take place. Then Jesus explains that now it is the place to worship the God of Israel, the Creator and Judge in Truth and Spirit, and the mountain nor Jerusalem is needed to worship. In respect to what Jesus has said it seems you might have taken it way out of context. The only other thing that is true in the statement Jesus said is that because He came into the Son of man that is a Jew hence of the Jews is salvation.

Maybe you should talk to some level headed Messianic Jews who have in the past, taken the Torah seriously before they converted.

Jesus Christ is the Righteousness of all who believe and have believed, including Abel Noah Enoch, Abraham and so on. There’s only one distinction, that is to believe and not to believe especially when one was born into a culture that promotes the service unto and worship of the Living God like Israel did.

And your view of why the Jewish People have suffered these past 2000 yr’s is quite mistaken. Paul explains plainly what is up with that.

Rom:11:25: For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Israel has suffered for your sake like a unwitting servant sent to be slaughtered. If Israel is resorted to it’s glory of it’s God, there is no more gospel to preach amongst the Gentile is there?
 

Webers_Home

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DPMartin said:
Maybe you should talk to some level headed Messianic Jews who have
in the past, taken the Torah seriously before they converted.

Does Jews For Jesus count? I've been a continuous recipient of their
newsletter since 1994.

Also; I'm going on 71 years old, and have been a conscientious Bible student

since 1968; following the likes of J.Vernon McGee every day on the radio
since 1972. How long have you been a conscientious Bible student; and who's
been your teachers? Anybody significant? Had much contact with converted
Jews? Much contact with unconverted Jews? Contact with any kind of Jews?
No matter-- you mean well; that's what counts I guess.


Buen Camino
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