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2 Peter 3:8

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Alpha and Omega, Jan 10, 2009.

  1. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    I didn't mean for the Einstein thing to bring so much disagreement here. All I was trying to show was that the theory of relativity was in harmony with the word of God. So here are some quotes from the other thread that I wish to address.(AusDisciple;67215)
    Actually, they BOTH agree simultaneously and harmoniously but you will not be able to see that unless you understand the theory of relativity. It makes perfect sense but you need to broaden your horizons to see it.Neither you nor me can refute what God chooses to reveal personally to each other but if you were to take a look outside the box, you'd see that this is perfectly harmonious as is the case with God in His perfection.I do not mean any disrespect Christina but I can see this from both perspectives and it DOES make sense scripturally and scientifically from ALL perspectives simultaneously. Science is NOT at odds with God here so I have no problem with accepting this harmony.1 day can = 1000 years at the same time as Peter speaking about how time is irrelevant to God because He exists outside time (He created time and space simultaneously when He created the Heavens and the Earth... or the Universe). [​IMG]
    I agree here that the science and Bible are not at odds here. I don't really know how they could be. I guess they could be if it said 1 day is like 50, 000 years like the Qua ran says (I think).Yes God is outside of time however this is not the verse that explains this (keep reading I will show you why).If you exist without time (Time is the measure of change) that means that you never change. There is no past, present or future there is only an eternal NOW. The past, present and future are all one and that is why he knows the future.Hebrews 13:8Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.There are plenty of other scriptures that tell you that God is eternal (exists outside of time). There are 47 verses that have the word eternal in them for anyone to check out.(Christina;67233)
    Exactly Cedarhart you nailed itthere is absoulty no proof anywhere it means anything else other than exactly what it says one day = 1000 years...except by some confused mens opinions
    Actually there is.2 Peter 3:8First, the Bible does not say, “With God one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is one day.”Peter actually wrote..But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.Also kindly note that the word "is" here is in brackets.When Peter says be not ignorant of this one thing etc.. he is reminding the people of Psalm 90:4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.Remember the word here is not is.Peter used a figure of speech known as a simile to compare a day to a thousand years. It is not that one day is precisely equivalent to 1,000 years or vice versa. Rather, within the specific context of 2 Peter 3, one could say that they share a likeness. The fact is God existing outside of time means that 1000 does not equal 1 day. Actually it could but 100 000 years could equal a day as well. So why did he choose 1000 instead of an infinite amount of possibilities? You can't say 1000 = 1 day for God. The characteristics of God make that statement incorrect and finally and most importantly it is Biblically incorrect.Peter reminded Christians that “scoffers” would arise in the last days saying, “Where is the promise of His [Jesus’] coming?” (vs. 3-4). Peter wanted the church to know that “the Lord is not slack concerning His promise [of a return], as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (vs. 9). Sandwiched between these thoughts is the fact that the passing of time does not affect God’s promises, specifically the promise of His return. If Jesus promised to return 1,000 or 2,000 years ago, it is as good as if He made the promise yesterday. Indeed, “with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” With men, the passing of long periods of time generally affects their keeping of promises, but not with God. Time has no bearing on whether He will do what He said He would do:Let's seriously consider what the passage in 2 Peter 3 actually teaches. Which of the perhaps possible understandings of terms and expressions make more sense? Is Peter giving an explanation for why the coming of the Lord which was promised to happen "in this generation" would still be "soon" for Christians 2000 years later? Or is Peter affirming emphatically that God is not late when it comes to fulfilling His promises, such as the one about the coming of the Lord in "this generation", and that God will be faithful and keep His promises?(epistemaniac;67248)
    the bit about the theory of relativity is interesting, however it makes a fundamental error here when it says The error is in asking how fast the Lord is traveling. The reason this is the case is because He is not traveling at all. How can a being travel that is already everywhere/omnipresent? Of course the Lord Jesus Christ possesses a body. But if He wanted to be somewhere, it does not seem as if He would need to "travel" at all to get there. He did in His pre-resurrection body, but not post-resurrection, He can just will Himself to be wherever it is that He wants to be, as He appeared in the upper room with the disciples. And of the course the omnipresent objection applies tot he Holy Spirit who is, as in the case of the Father, incorporeal. blessings,ken
    Your right Ken. I'm sure God can will himself anywhere. Well even in saying that he is everywhere to begin with.But there is an answer to the question "The error is in asking how fast the Lord is traveling." I just cannot find it now. I read it but have no idea where. I will get back to you when i find it.(tim_from_pa;67254)
    The formulas for time dilation can easily be solved using the Pythagorean theorem. Like you said as an object approaches the speed of light, time ceases to exists if light speed could be achieved (or stop whatever one wants to say). Therefore, any small fractional variation that ones puts in the equation near the speed of light can produce any ratio one wants such as 1000 years/ 1 day. So in itself does not tell me anything.Take note that if any matter would go near the speed of light to make the 1000yr/1 day ratio, it's mass would increase 365000 times.
    Is the Lord made of matter however? I don't think that would apply in this occasion.(Christina;67285)
    To be honest here if anyone is doing interpting and putting mans ideas and spin on this verse its those who say it means timeless or forever there is not one iota of evidence in all scripture that supports this ... Its a very simple straight forward verse God says 1 day with me is 1000 years (to you) ...To you 1000 years is but one Day to me
    Christina now it seems that you are doing the same. Nowhere in that verse does it say (to you). God is not comparing our perception of time to his in this verse at all. Nor does he mention anyone but himself in this verse.Peter did not establish a formula for calculating God's time into man's time and visa versa (e.g. 1 day = 1000 years).As for the people that think this verse is in harmony or somehow in direct correlation with the verses in Revelation. I completely reject that notion. You can't just say that this verse is a reference to Revelation (for those that did in the other thread). The fact is if it is then how long will Jesus reign on earth? 1000 years or 1 day? Same thing could be said for Genesis is it 7 days of creation or 7000 years? We all know that the days of creation are literal days and that 1000 year reign is a literal 1000 year reign. If we combine 2 Peter with these books then we are confusing ourselves and others more than actually reading and learning what God has to say. You can't compare a simile with something that is to be taken literal.
     
  2. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Alpha...(Alpha and Omega;67414)
    (Christina;67233)
    Exactly Cedarhart you nailed itthere is absoulty no proof anywhere it means anything else other than exactly what it says one day = 1000 years...except by some confused mens opinions
    Actually there is.2 Peter 3:8First, the Bible does not say, “With God one day is a thousand years and a thousand years is one day.”Peter actually wrote..But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.Also kindly note that the word "is" here is in brackets.When Peter says be not ignorant of this one thing etc.. he is reminding the people of Psalm 90:4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.Remember the word here is not is.Peter used a figure of speech known as a simile to compare a day to a thousand years. It is not that one day is precisely equivalent to 1,000 years or vice versa. Rather, within the specific context of 2 Peter 3, one could say that they share a likeness. The fact is God existing outside of time means that 1000 does not equal 1 day. Actually it could but 100 000 years could equal a day as well. So why did he choose 1000 instead of an infinite amount of possibilities? You can't say 1000 = 1 day for God. The characteristics of God make that statement incorrect and finally and most importantly it is Biblically incorrect.Peter reminded Christians that “scoffers” would arise in the last days saying, “Where is the promise of His [Jesus’] coming?” (vs. 3-4). Peter wanted the church to know that “the Lord is not slack concerning His promise [of a return], as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (vs. 9). Sandwiched between these thoughts is the fact that the passing of time does not affect God’s promises, specifically the promise of His return. If Jesus promised to return 1,000 or 2,000 years ago, it is as good as if He made the promise yesterday. Indeed, “with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” With men, the passing of long periods of time generally affects their keeping of promises, but not with God. Time has no bearing on whether He will do what He said He would do:Let's seriously consider what the passage in 2 Peter 3 actually teaches. Which of the perhaps possible understandings of terms and expressions make more sense? Is Peter giving an explanation for why the coming of the Lord which was promised to happen "in this generation" would still be "soon" for Christians 2000 years later? Or is Peter affirming emphatically that God is not late when it comes to fulfilling His promises, such as the one about the coming of the Lord in "this generation", and that God will be faithful and keep His promises?Alpha, numbers are very important and is needed to understand God's Words correctly. Notice in Genesis 5, nobody in the lineage even lived for a thousand years. So nobody even lived one full day of God's Day.(Alpha and Omega;67414)
    (Christina;67285)
    To be honest here if anyone is doing interpting and putting mans ideas and spin on this verse its those who say it means timeless or forever there is not one iota of evidence in all scripture that supports this ...Its a very simple straight forward verse God says 1 day with me is 1000 years (to you) ...To you 1000 years is but one Day to me
    Christina now it seems that you are doing the same. Nowhere in that verse does it say (to you). God is not comparing our perception of time to his in this verse at all.Peter did not establish a formula for calculating God's time into man's time and visa versa (e.g. 1 day = 1000 years).As for the people that think this verse is in harmony or somehow in direct correlation with the verses in Revelation. I completely reject that notion.You can't just say that this verse is a reference to Revelation (for those that did in the other thread). The fact is if it is then how long will Jesus reign on earth? 1000 years or 1 day? Same thing could be said for Genesis is it 7 days of creation or 7000 years? We all know that the days of creation are literal days and that 1000 year reign is a literal 1000 year reign. If we combine 2 Peter with these books then we are just confusing the issue at hand. You can't compare a simile with something that is to be taken literal.It's straight forward 1000 human years is 1 Day to God. Period...What am I suppose to do with scriptures that says thousand years? (Revelation 20:2-7) ... Wow thousand years is written in Revelation 20... 6 times... I thought it was four times... my error.Six falls short of seven... [​IMG]And how about the scriptures that says the day of the Lord? (Ex: II Peter 3:10, I Thessalonians 5:2)
     
  3. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    (Jordan;67415)
    Alpha, numbers are very important and is needed to understand God's Words correctly. Notice in Genesis 5, nobody in the lineage even lived for a thousand years. So nobody even lived one full day of God's Day.
    I agree numbers are important. I don't know why it is important in your example though. (Jordan;67415)
    It's straight forward 1000 human years is 1 Day to God. Period...
    I have to disagree. No where in that verse are humans mentioned and no where in that verse is the word "is" used (unless we count the brackets). Look at what the verse says and what it doesn't say.that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.This is like saying something along the lines of.....I ran as fast as a speeding bullet.(Jordan;67415)
    What am I suppose to do with scriptures that says thousand years? (Revelation 20:2-7) ... Wow thousand years is written in Revelation 20... 6 times... I thought it was four times... my error.Six falls short of seven... [​IMG]
    I am just showing people that this is in no way a reference to revelation or vice versa. Just because 1000 years is used in both does not mean they are talking about the same thing.(Jordan;67415)
    And how about the scriptures that says the day of the Lord? (Ex: II Peter 3:10, I Thessalonians 5:2)
    In both your examples God says the day of the Lord is like a thief in the night. What is he saying? Does a thief tell you when he is going to rob your home? No. And God will not tell you when he returns either.
     
  4. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Alpha and Omega;67416)
    (Jordan;67415)
    Alpha, numbers are very important and is needed to understand God's Words correctly. Notice in Genesis 5, nobody in the lineage even lived for a thousand years. So nobody even lived one full day of God's Day.
    I agree numbers are important. I don't know why it is important in your example though. (Jordan;67415)
    It's straight forward 1000 human years is 1 Day to God. Period...
    I have to disagree. No where in that verse are humans mentioned and no where in that verse is the word "is" used (unless we count the brackets). Look at what the verse says and what it doesn't say.that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.This is like saying something along the lines of.....I ran as fast as a speeding bullet.(Jordan;67415)
    What am I suppose to do with scriptures that says thousand years? (Revelation 20:2-7) ... Wow thousand years is written in Revelation 20... 6 times... I thought it was four times... my error.Six falls short of seven... [​IMG]
    I am just showing people that this is in no way a reference to revelation or vice versa. Just because 1000 years is used in both does not mean they are talking about the same thing.(Jordan;67415)
    And how about the scriptures that says the day of the Lord? (Ex: II Peter 3:10, I Thessalonians 5:2)
    In both your examples God says the day of the Lord is like a thief in the night. What is he saying? Does a thief tell you when he is going to rob your home? No. And God will not tell you when he returns either.I know that those verses about the day of the Lord means just that. It is just clear as water. If people don't study His Words, they won't know at all.And the Melineum Reign which was written six times in Revelation 20. The Mellineum Reign is is a max period of One Day. Is it our 24-hours One Day? No! Is it a max period of One Day in God's Time? YES!And this...Genesis 5:5 - And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.Genesis 2:16-17 - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.II Peter 3:8 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Im going to state this one more time to try to show you.. you all free believe what you like... but please do not try to convince me with opinions ... Be not ignorant is a hebrew Idiom that s means something was hidden and is now going to be revealed what is being revealed made known is that in heaven that is with God 1 day is a 1000years to men the people he is revealing the hidden thing to ... then he repeats it from mans perspective on earth 1000 years is one day ... this was for emphasis. This is better seen in this older version of scripture (Wyc) 8 But, ye most dear, this one thing be not hid to you [be not unknown], that one day with God is as a thousand years, and a thousand years be as one day [and a thousand years as one day]. God reveals this in 2 Peter in the New testament because it was already known in the Old testament the Jews understood it no other way and its written in their books and Peter was a Jew Now everyone keeps saying it doesnt mean what it says then show me in scripture that it says something else if you cant not produce a scripture showing it says somethiong else then you have no basis except men for your belief .... It is the key to understanding Rev. and if you think the Millieum is not 1000 years ...and that 1000 years is not called the Lords Day then you should re.read Rev 20 believe whatever you want Im not telling anyone what to believe. but God is revealing this mysyery to you ... Please If you want to debate the point again bring your scripture as proof. I heard enough of your opinions not one iota of proof from God only menI will ask you to use your mind God gave you and ask yourself one last question Does God rest on the 7th day ??? Now do you honestly believe God takes every Saturday off and says dont any one need me on the Sabbath??Or does it make more sense to understand Gods week is 7000 years long (to us)and he has been watching out for us the last 6000 years and that he will rest on his 7th day (thats 7000th year to us .... because 1 day to God 1000 years to man ... and 1000 years to man is 1 day to God) seems like a no brainer to me
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Now as for Eienstein theroy of realivity it may well fit what I found intersting is it says nothing can exist outside time. God himself then made this law (reguardless of whom discovered it) therefore God exists inside time 2 Peter is telling you Gods time is differnt than ours ... Not that he exists in timelessness but that all things have order God is giving us a clue here in 2 Peter that his time exist within time.. but not our time he does not use the earth revolving around the Sun in 24 hours as his clock as we do ....According to Albert Einstein, space is not the empty “nothingness” that most of us perceive it to be. It is filled with what Einstein called ether. Dictionary.com defines ether as “an all-pervading, infinitely elastic, massless medium.” Everything that exists within the bounds of our universe does so within this massless medium.As dictionary.com notes, ether is infinitely elastic. It can be stretched and distorted. In order to visualize this, imagine a tightly stretched cloth. This is ether. Now imagine dropping a heavy ball (like a bowling ball) onto the cloth, right in the middle. This would cause the cloth to sag in the middle. The heavy ball represents dense matter, like our planet. Einstein believed that matter causes space to sag, similar to how the heavy ball causes the stretched cloth to sag. These sags in space are known as gravity wells.Now, if we placed smaller, lighter balls (like marbles) onto the cloth along with the heavy ball, they would roll toward the center, into the sag caused by the heavy ball. Moreover, they would contribute to the overall sagging of the cloth, even if only slightly. This motion towards the center represents gravity. According to Einstein’s view of gravity, if smaller, lighter forms of matter are close enough, they can be drawn into the gravity wells of larger, denser forms of matter. While they each create their own sag in space, some gravity wells are deeper and more influential than others (that is, they generate a stronger gravitational force). One thing they all have in common: they distort time.Now assuming here earth is the bowling ball and heaven is the lighter ball that are not rolling toward the middle (that is heaven not subject to gravity) but being held in an fixed postion near the outer edge of the cloth time would be differnt there then in the center where earth (bowlingball) is ..God being exact potions heaven so that 1000 years at the center (bowling ball) is one day in heaven (outer edge) lighterball (marble) Now I cant guarntee this is how it works ...but know one can prove heaven is subject to gravity and the pull of gravoty distorts time ..
     
  7. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    Ken, this one is for youI found where I read that little bit about time dilation here it is....
    In order for time to move, the Lord should be traveling less than the speed of light because at exactly at the speed of light, time will be zero at infinity, at eternity. The verse strangely registers just a tiny hair away from the speed of light to enable for time to move, otherwise, it will stand still at the speed of light and there will be no time to measure in this case. The strange accuracy of the verse should be well noted. It could compute for any random number resulting less than the speed of light, like say, 129,324,987 m/s, but, strangely it chooses a resulting answer digit for digit accuracy of the speed of light except for the last digit in order to make a point. It is as if it is trying to get our attention of the accuracy of the Bible. The first quantitative estimate of the speed of light was only made in 1676 by Ole Christensen Rømer.Accelerating any object with any mass approaching the speed of light would require an infinite amount of energy. So as velocity goes to the speed of light, we are tragically approaching infinite mass which means it takes an infinite amount of energy to accelerate an infinite amount of matter. It would require omnipotency to achieve such enormous unimaginable amount of energy to achieve that.Such omnipotency can easily go at infinity. According to the scriptures, it describes God as omnipotent and all powerful. It describes God’s infinite and eternal nature.Since God is omnipotent possessing infinite energy, He can make a centillion year to 1 day if He wanted to and it will always remain less than the speed of light according to calculation. As long as time registers, you are traveling less than the speed of light. A centillion year is 1 followed by 303 zeros.Approaching infinity or the speed of light, all conceivable time on earth and on the Universe, all its history, all the entirety of time will happen at the twinkling of an eye relative to God. As far as God is concerned, everything is done, finished by the speed of His thought. He knows our past, present, and future, that is to say, He is omniscient, for He was at the beginning and He was also at the End at the twinkling of His eyes. God does not even need to change his speed or travel at the speed of light to dilate time. He can always use His powers to dilate time through gravity. Just enough gravity to allow for time dilation, otherwise at the singularity, at infinite gravity, at infinite density, time stand still at zero at eternity and eternity is timeless and we know who is eternal. At the singularity, space-time will cease to exist as we know them. The laws of physics as we know them break down at the singularity.Take note that the verse (Peter 3:8) specifically indicates two types of time dilation. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be structured as such. One from gravity and one from velocity. 1 day is as 1000 years and 1000 years as 1 day.That is to say, 1 day at the extremely dense “entity” just a whisker less than the gravity of a black hole is as 1000 years on Earth, and 1000 years on Earth as 1 day at the “entity” nearing the speed of light. Either way, it has to be less in order for time to be measured. As explained, the time can be dilated to 1 centillion years is as to 1 millisecond if God so desired in either dilation, for He has limitless power or “omnipotency”.As noted, at the singularity where time equals zero or at eternity, the fabric of space time does not exist, physical laws breaks down. God has the power to manipulate gravity and velocity just enough for time to move as He has the power to withdraw the lights from stars and constellations to bring back where it expanded (Big crunch) and to expand the Universe again, to form a new Universe (Big bang). God is not bounded at all by space-time and physical laws as He is at infinity, at eternity, possessing infinite energy. He is the power behind the singularity and the velocity of light. He holds the power of the Universe and space-time fabric. There is no limit for God as He is omnipotent, almighty, and eternal. The very nature of being “omnipotent” is infinity at all levels – infinite mass, infinite energy, infinite gravity, infinite density, and infinite heat.If God was to enter into our Universe with His infinite powers it will obliterate everything. God has to adjust His powers in the limits confined in space-time fabric to avoid destroying physical matter.So, according to physics where time equals zero, it is timeless. This is the concept of “Eternity”. When time equals zero, everything is at infinity. This is the concept of “Almighty” and when time is at zero, the fabric of space time does not exist. This is the concept of “heaven” where God is. We now know God’s power and how it is limitless and bounded by nothing. We now know the concept of “Eternity” and “Almighty” as best explained in science with current scientific knowledge.
     
  8. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    (Christina;67434)
    Now everyone keeps saying it doesnt mean what it says then show me in scripture that it says something else if you cant not produce a scripture showing it says somethiong else then you have no basis except men for your belief ....
    I thought I did.Again it DOES NOT SAY that one day is with the Lord IS a thousand years, and a thousand years IS one day.That should be our first clue. But there is plenty more. If you still think that 1000 years = 1 day here is more proof that it isn'tDeuteronomy 33:27The eternal God [is thy] refuge, and underneath [are] the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy [them].1 Timothy 1:17Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.Now Eternal means lives outside of time. He is here forever, time has no effect on him. When you say that 1000 years for God equals 1 day for us and vice versa you are putting limits on God. If God lives within time then he is not God. Because time had a beginning and it has an ending. We know that God has neither because he lives outside of time. He is eternal.Revelation 22:13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.Why does he say this? Because he was there before he created time and he will be there when time no longer exists. Time does not matter to him because he is eternal. He is present at the beginning of time and at the end of time at the same time.(Christina;67434)
    It is the key to understanding Rev. and if you think the Millieum is not 1000 years ...and that 1000 years is not called the Lords Day then you should re.read Rev 20 I heard enough of your opinions not one iota of proof from God only men
    No where in Revelation 20 does it mention Lords day or day of the Lord.Actually Revelation 1:10 is the only verse in the whole book of Revelation to mention either.(Christina;67435)
    I will ask you to use your mind God gave you and ask yourself one last question Does God rest on the 7th day ??? Now do you honestly believe God takes every Saturday off and says dont any one need me on the Sabbath??Or does it make more sense to understand Gods week is 7000 years long (to us)and he has been watching out for us the last 6000 years and that he will rest on his 7th day (thats 7000th year to us .... because 1 day to God 1000 years to man ... and 1000 years to man is 1 day to God) seems like a no brainer to me
    Truthfully I do not really know what you are talking about here. What I think people are confusing is that somehow Genesis and the 1 day 1000 year thing are somehow connected. Is this what you are telling me? That God will come back on his rest day? That he will somehow come back in this 7000th year? Can you show me some proof from the Bible that he will do this?(Christina;67435)
    Now as for Eienstein theroy of realivity it may well fit what I found intersting is it says nothing can exist outside time. God himself then made this law (reguardless of whom discovered it) therefore God exists inside time 2 Peter is telling you Gods time is differnt than ours ... Not that he exists in timelessness but that all things have order God is giving us a clue here in 2 Peter that his time exist within time.. but not our time he does not use the earth revolving around the Sun in 24 hours as his clock as we do ....
    No if God existed in time then he would not be God because he would have had to have a beginning. Thus he would have had to be created. We know that is not true God created time. He made everything. He is eternal. When you say these things you are denying that very fact.watch this[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQTALEIMRKY&feature=channel_page]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQTALEIMRKY...re=channel_page[/url]
     
  9. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Alpha and Omega;67459)
    (Christina;67434)
    Now everyone keeps saying it doesnt mean what it says then show me in scripture that it says something else if you cant not produce a scripture showing it says somethiong else then you have no basis except men for your belief ....
    I thought I did.Again it DOES NOT SAY that one day is with the Lord IS a thousand years, and a thousand years IS one day.That should be our first clue. But there is plenty more. If you still think that 1000 years = 1 day here is more proof that it isn'tDeuteronomy 33:27The eternal God [is thy] refuge, and underneath [are] the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy [them].1 Timothy 1:17Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.Now Eternal means lives outside of time. He is here forever, time has no effect on him. When you say that 1000 years for God equals 1 day for us and vice versa you are putting limits on God. If God lives within time then he is not God. Because time had a beginning and it has an ending. We know that God has neither because he lives outside of time. He is eternal.Revelation 22:13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.Why does he say this? Because he was there before he created time and he will be there when time no longer exists. Time does not matter to him because he is eternal. He is present at the beginning of time and at the end of time at the same time.(Christina;67434)
    It is the key to understanding Rev. and if you think the Millieum is not 1000 years ...and that 1000 years is not called the Lords Day then you should re.read Rev 20I heard enough of your opinions not one iota of proof from God only men
    No where in Revelation 20 does it mention Lords day or day of the Lord.Actually Revelation 1:10 is the only verse in the whole book of Revelation to mention either.(Christina;67435)
    I will ask you to use your mind God gave you and ask yourself one last questionDoes God rest on the 7th day ???Now do you honestly believe God takes every Saturday off and says dont any one need me on the Sabbath??Or does it make more sense to understand Gods week is 7000 years long (to us)and he has been watching out for us the last 6000 years and that he will rest on his 7th day (thats 7000th year to us .... because 1 day to God 1000 years to man ... and 1000 years to man is 1 day to God) seems like a no brainer to me
    Truthfully I do not really know what you are talking about here. What I think people are confusing is that somehow Genesis and the 1 day 1000 year thing are somehow connected. Is this what you are telling me? That God will come back on his rest day? That he will somehow come back in this 7000th year? Can you show me some proof from the Bible that he will do this?(Christina;67435)
    Now as for Eienstein theroy of realivity it may well fit what I found intersting is it says nothing can exist outside time. God himself then made this law (reguardless of whom discovered it)therefore God exists inside time 2 Peter is telling you Gods time is differnt than ours ... Not that he exists in timelessness but that all things have orderGod is giving us a clue here in 2 Peter that his time exist within time.. but not our time he does not use the earth revolving around the Sun in 24 hours as his clock as we do ....
    No if God existed in time then he would not be God because he would have had to have a beginning. Thus he would have had to be created. We know that is not true God created time. He made everything. He is eternal. When you say these things you are denying that very fact.watch this[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQTALEIMRKY&feature=channel_page]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQTALEIMRKY...re=channel_page[/url]Alpha, at this rate, I don't believe God will give you the wisdom you needed to understand His Words properly. Secondly you have not even address my points. BTW, God's 1 Day time existed before our 24-hours day time.If God never had any time, why did He put a checker at II Peter 3:8, and scriptures support God's 1 Day time? All I am seeing in opinions that can't be backed up by scriptures... it seems to me one is picking and choosing...One more thing Alpha, Nobody is disagreeing with you about God always existed. That's clear as water. (Genesis 1:1)
     
  10. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    Alpha, at this rate, I don't believe God will give you the wisdom you needed to understand His Words properly. Secondly you have not even address my points. BTW, God's 1 Day time existed before our 24-hours day time.If God never had any time, why did He put a checker at II Peter 3:8, and scriptures support God's 1 Day time? All I am seeing in opinions that can't be backed up by scriptures... it seems to me one is picking and choosing...One more thing Alpha, Nobody is disagreeing with you about God always existed. That's clear as water. (Genesis 1:1)
    Obviously people are in disagreement that God has always existed by saying he is bound by time. Let me ask you. Is God eternal?
     
  11. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Alpha and Omega;67461)
    (Jordan;67460)
    Alpha, at this rate, I don't believe God will give you the wisdom you needed to understand His Words properly. Secondly you have not even address my points. BTW, God's 1 Day time existed before our 24-hours day time.If God never had any time, why did He put a checker at II Peter 3:8, and scriptures support God's 1 Day time? All I am seeing in opinions that can't be backed up by scriptures... it seems to me one is picking and choosing...One more thing Alpha, Nobody is disagreeing with you about God always existed. That's clear as water. (Genesis 1:1)
    Obviously people are in disagreement that God has always existed by saying he is bound by time. Let me ask you. Is God eternal?Yes.Let me ask you a question Can God create a time for Himself?
     
  12. Alpha and Omega

    Alpha and Omega New Member

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    Yes.Let me ask you a question Can God create a time for Himself?
    This is the definition for eternal...1. without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ): eternal life.2. perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.3. enduring; immutable: eternal principles.4. Metaphysics. existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.–noun5. something that is eternal.6. the Eternal, God.Why would he? There is no need to. He only did this when he sent his son because he was human. The fact that he is eternal means that he has no past present and future. He only has an eternal NOW. He is in our past present and future all the time. He knows what will happen because he has already been there. He is there now. If we say that 1000 years = 1 day for God we are putting finite limitations on him, which we cannot do because he is infinite/eternal/timeless. Remember the verse does not say "With God one day is/= a thousand years and a thousand years is/= one day. "It has "as" there instead makes a huge difference.
     
  13. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Again you missing the point ..................... God is eternal ............. we are not ..................No one said he is bound by time ........HE HAS LAID OUT A PLAN OF THE AGES he is very exact in this using time we can relate to...He has appointed times ... He gives you this time plan in 2 Peter3:8... thats why its the key to our understanding not his .... he is revealing a mysyery a hidden thing come on think past the milk what christian doesnt already know God is eternal???????????????it was never a mystery or hidden God told every one from the begining ....1000 years =1 Day ...1 day = 1000 years (a repeat ) this is his clock he useshe is revealing here...........If you do not want to hear about fine but thats exactly what he says One day with God is 1000 years ..... if you can not understand he repeats it twice for emphasis once from heavens perspective and once from mans perspective ... It was understood this way from the beginning ...only modern man has changed it ....
     
  14. AusDisciple

    AusDisciple New Member

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    Alpha,You have summed up here very effectively what I was trying to say in my thread on this verse. Everyone I have spoken to this week about this topic (ministers, elders, preachers, teachers and other Christian friends) ALL agree with us.IMHO, it is very simple to understand the timelessness of God. So simple even a child can comprehend it (I know three Christian children who understand the meaning of this verse).It is interesting to note the staunch opposition to the round earth concept when it was first postulated. The Christians of the day were adamant that the earth was flat and used many scriptural references to back up their stance.It is pretty obvious given the greater understanding we have today and the fact that we have seen the earth from space that the Bible is NOT saying that the earth is flat. Our understanding of scripture has evolved even though scripture itself (and God) does not change.Perhaps the same could be said for understanding 2 Peter 3:8. [​IMG]
     
  15. excepttruth

    excepttruth New Member

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    Hey Alpha and Omega, I like your style of debate. Tme is messurment by the fastest thing we know of. LIGHT. Whether it be know as a pratical or a wave or both. God said "let there be light." God created time. Therfore, time is subject to God, not God being subject to that which He created Light / TIME. Simple logic. God is greater than that which he created. God is infinity, He was before, before, and will be after, after. In the context of what Peter was telling us I agree with Alpha and Omega. God by calling our 1000 years liken to be like a Day unto the Lord, to show He is patient with us, and not how we think He is slow or taking to much time to respond to His promises for us. For to us a thousand years is a long time to wait, but to God it is like being one day liken to us. In other words our day is here then gone. It is short and quick. Just as a thousand years is like to God.
     
  16. AusDisciple

    AusDisciple New Member

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    Hey Alpha and Omega, I like your style of debate. Tme is messurment by the fastest thing we know of. LIGHT. Whether it be know as a pratical or a wave or both. God said "let there be light." God created time. Therfore, time is subject to God, not God being subject to that which He created Light / TIME. Simple logic. God is greater than that which he created. God is infinity, He was before, before, and will be after, after. In the context of what Peter was telling us I agree with Alpha and Omega. God by calling our 1000 years liken to be like a Day unto the Lord, to show He is patient with us, and not how we think He is slow or taking to much time to respond to His promises for us. For to us a thousand years is a long time to wait, but to God it is like being one day liken to us. In other words our day is here then gone. It is short and quick. Just as a thousand years is like to God.
    That is exactly what many of us understand [​IMG]
     
  17. excepttruth

    excepttruth New Member

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    Exactly AusDisciple, That is why Jesus could say in Revelation 22: 7. "Behold I am coming soon!" To Him it is soon, to us it has already been over 1900 years. I don't know about you, but that is a long time. Not so soon to us that wait.
     
  18. AusDisciple

    AusDisciple New Member

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    Exactly AusDisciple, That is why Jesus could say in Revelation 22: 7. "Behold I am coming soon!" To Him it is soon, to us it has already been over 1900 years. I don't know about you, but that is a long time. Not so soon to us that wait.
    While we are certainly given things to look out for in the end times and I, like many, believe we are indeed in the end times now, nobody knows the exact time Christ will return. Whether He comes back first or we die (physically) first, it doesn't really matter. We should treat each day like it is our last day here on earth and put Christ first in everything we do so that we can fulfil His will for us here on earth.Whatever the case, it is awesome that we can be modern disciples of Christ, through the miracle of His resurrection from the dead, following Him faithfully with all our heart, mind, soul and strength! [​IMG]
     
  19. excepttruth

    excepttruth New Member

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    Could not have said it any betterAusDisciple. God lets us focus on today, for us to seek out His kingdom. Matt.6: 33-34
     
  20. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Hey Alpha and Omega, I like your style of debate. Tme is messurment by the fastest thing we know of. LIGHT. Whether it be know as a pratical or a wave or both. God said "let there be light." God created time. Therfore, time is subject to God, not God being subject to that which He created Light / TIME. Simple logic. God is greater than that which he created. God is infinity, He was before, before, and will be after, after. In the context of what Peter was telling us I agree with Alpha and Omega. God by calling our 1000 years liken to be like a Day unto the Lord, to show He is patient with us, and not how we think He is slow or taking to much time to respond to His promises for us. For to us a thousand years is a long time to wait, but to God it is like being one day liken to us. In other words our day is here then gone. It is short and quick. Just as a thousand years is like to God.
    Revelation 3:11 - Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.Revelation 22:7 - Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.Revelation 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.Revelation 22:20 - He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.Wow, that is written 4 times in the whole entire book of Revelation. 1 time in Revelation 3 and 3 times in Revelation 22. This is so exciting. Now I can back that up with II Peter 3:8.II Peter 3:8 - But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.This is repeated twice for emphasis. Once on Heaven's perspective, and one man's perspective.... Now on Revelation 20...Revelation 20:2 - And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,Revelation 20:3 - And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.Revelation 20:4 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.Revelation 20:5 - But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.Revelation 20:6 - Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Revelation 20:7 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,6 times it says in Revelation 20. Is God trying to tell us something? I say so. [​IMG] So yes, He is coming down quickly. That's a short time. [​IMG]
     
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