Spiritual Israelite
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Where does it say that? Please back up your claims with scripture.
Where does scripture say this?
That he talks about where? Please show me the scriptures that you are basing your understanding on.
22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine
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Truth7t7
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There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation
This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ
(Behold, I Make All Things New)
2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.
Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Sure. I understand not all Christians are read up enough on the Bible to know things that are basic to others. I only give the verses if people ask to see for themselves.
Judging the earth begins with (1 Chron 16:33) Nations rejoicing with the Lord judging and governing is (Psalms 64:4) The Lord and His resurrected people ruling nations with rods of iron is in Revelation 2 & 19. Peter describes God's proper government over men on earth in (1 Peter 2:14) These are Bible verses saying the Lord's judgment, government, and rule on earth will make the nations glad.
Truth7t7
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Your claim is "False"
Jesus "Destroys" with a rod of iron, as a Potter destroys his clay vessels
Your suggestion the rod of iron is a kings scepter and "rods" are given to the faithful ruling on earth is 100% "False"
But John had not been martyred when he writes of being in the spirit. He is alive in TIME, he symbolizes a thousand years receiving revelation from God. The martyrs are bodiless because they were beheaded and are living souls. The reason they are alive in heaven is because like John, in TIME, (a thousand years) they lived and reigned with Christ before they died. Nowhere in Scripture can we find any verse that says one day is a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day. You have been repeatedly show how you are abusing this verse that says "one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." 'Is' shouldn't even be there, that why the KJB has italicized it. 'Is' was added by the translators, but apparently for some (like you) rather than helping to clarify, it causes confusion?
2 Peter 3:8 (KJV) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Spiritual Israelite
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I am very well read up on the Bible, but I have never talked to you before, so how can I know what you base your beliefs on unless you tell me?
Can you also quote the verses themselves and show which text in those verses supports what you're saying? How do you conclude that those verses are talking about a time period after Christ returns?
Of course. I'm asking you what your understanding is of what that entails.
How so exactly? How will the rods of iron be used to make people glad?
What is your understanding of this passage, which is the one that the verses from Revelation are based on:
Psalm 2:7 I will proclaim the Lord’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father. 8 Ask me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession. 9 You will break them with a rod of iron; you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”
You think people will be glad to broken with a rod of iron the way a piece of pottery is broken to pieces? Is this not a picture of destruction just like Revelation 19:11-21? How could anyone be glad about being destroyed?
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You don't have any Bible verse here saying the Lord will not rule the nations on earth. So this is your theory and you're more than welcome to it. I don't have Bible saying He will be ruling the nations for a thousand years while on earth, but other verses say He will be on the earth when He comes again. I also hold the truth of the Bible saying he will judge, govern, and rule the nations for a thousand years.
Spiritual Israelite
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Spiritual Israelite
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What verses do you believe teach that Jesus will be on the earth when He comes again?
Truth7t7
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Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception
Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim
The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!
"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"
Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
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My Bible says a shepherd's rule. The shepherd's rod of the Lord the righteous are comforted by. You replace rule with destroy. If you have a Bible with that translation from another source, then you can quote that verse and translation. Agreeing or not agreeing with opinions are neither here nor there for me.
Spiritual Israelite
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Shouldn't our understanding come from the same source as the source used for the verses in Revelation, which is this passage:
Psalm 2:7 I will proclaim the Lord’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father. 8 Ask me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession. 9 You will break them with a rod of iron; you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”
Does breaking people with a rod of iron, which is compared to the breaking of pottery into pieces, seem like shepherding to you?
I've already told you how I believe that rule will be, and the verses for why I believe it. If you want to know why also, then you can look them up for yourself. They are self-explanatory. I only say something for certain based upon what verses say. I also explained why I believe the nations will be glad as the Bible says. It would certainly make me glad to never have to deal with corrupt rulers on earth nor have to fight any wars.
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So according to you the dead in Christ will rise first. What about those alive at His coming, when will they rise? Will they too be resurrected even though they have not died? Or will they be caught up together with the resurrected dead to meet the Lord in the air? What does Paul say after saying the dead in Christ shall rise first?
The living souls of the dead in Christ will return with Christ, those who are still physically alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent the bodies of the dead in Christ from being resurrected before (first) the living, because Paul says the physically dead in Christ will be resurrected (rise up first) then after they have been risen from the graves, those alive at His coming shall be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM to meet the Lord in the air.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
It seems Paul wanted to assure the Thessalonians and whosoever reads that those who have died in Christ have not perished. Not only will they, as living souls return with Christ, but they will be bodily resurrected before those who are still alive ascend up, and together they will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. And in 1Cor 15 we learn that at this same moment, a twinkling of the eye those in Christ shall be changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible.
You provide a good verse for your argument about how they are ruled from Psalms 2. It's not a verse saying He won't rule them. If we take Psalms 2 and revelation 19 together, then we have a rule that breaks the wicked, which are subject of Psalms 2, and shepherds others of the nations spoken of in Rev 19. The prophecy is the Lord comes to judge the earth to make difference between the guilty and the innocent. The innocent must be the nations rejoicing at His government on earth. The guilty never appreciate just judgment and rule.
Exactly! He's changing 'as' to 'is'.
That which is hopefully now dead is your refusal to read context so that you can continue to argue your unbiblical opinions.
Truth7t7
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Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth, Is This True
As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claimThe temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived
Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.
19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.
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