7th trump!

[lecoop]

(kriss;50209)
Your right about all those verse's but you are not getting these are all describing the 7th and last trump the 2nd coming of the lord.As I explained in the other thread the trump is the sound of the trumpet that starts the action What Action the second coming and all that involes He comes on a white horse.The second white horse The first white horse in Rev is the Antichrist http://www.christianityboard.com/two-white...ht=white+horses
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what words you used here that leads you to believe this is the antichrist:6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. Who has limited our choices to only two: Jesus or the antichrist? John used the color white, 16 other times, and in each of these, it is to represent righteousness. We can be sure that John would not change this for this one verse. The white then, will represent righteousness. This alone rules out this horse and rider to represent the antichrist. Indeed, there is not one word in this verse that gives us one hint that there is anything evil here. The color white tells us just the opposite.Second, the timing is WAY off for this to be the beast of chapter 13. If we read without preconceived glasses, and let the context tell us when, we will see that this first seal was broken about 33 AD - so about 2000 years too early for the antichrist.Coop

 

[Jordan]

(lecoop;50212)
(Kriss;50209)
Your right about all those verse's but you are not getting these are all describing the 7th and last trump the 2nd coming of the lord.As I explained in the other thread the trump is the sound of the trumpet that starts the action What Action the second coming and all that involesHe comes on a white horse.The second white horseThe first white horse in Rev is the Antichristhttp://www.christianityboard.com/two...t=white+horses
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what words you used here that leads you to believe this is the antichrist: 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. Who has limited our choices to only two: Jesus or the antichrist? John used the color white, 16 other times, and in each of these, it is to represent righteousness. We can be sure that John would not change this for this one verse. The white then, will represent righteousness. This alone rules out this horse and rider to represent the antichrist. Indeed, there is not one word in this verse that gives us one hint that there is anything evil here. The color white tells us just the opposite. Second, the timing is WAY off for this to be the beast of chapter 13. If we read without preconceived glasses, and let the context tell us when, we will see that this first seal was broken about 33 AD - so about 2000 years too early for the antichrist. CoopRevelation 6:2 - And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.The first horse is Satan. (aka the AntiChrist)Revelation 19:14 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.I don't see the first white horse was being called Faithful and True.How do I know that the first white horse is Satan the Anti-Christ? Easy, this verse should do it...II Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

 

[Christina]

You can say what ever you like but Revelation is not all in chronological order and the first white horse is Antichrist, he comes firstRevelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."This one who rode on the white horse had a bow, but without arrows. He had the authority, but not the strength to back up his authority. What strength that he did have, was through deception. The rider of the white horse is Satan, in the role of the Antichrist. Satan will come first as the fake Christ, the Antichrist; and he will ride and conquer the people of the entire earth.This first seal we will see in detail in the ninth chapter. It takes place after the fifth trumpet sounds, Satan is the first morning star to come. This is why the rapture doctrine is so dangerous, for it ties its followers to the first Christ to come, who is the Antichrist.The rider of this white horse is not the rider of the white horse who comes with a rainbow around his head, and a rainbow around the throne he leaves. This "bow" in the Greek is a cheap fabric, or imitation, In the Greek it's called "toxon". His grandeur will be cheap, yet convincing all of those who are looking for the rider of the "first horse" to fly them out of here. The Antichrist will offer them all they desire in fulfilling their wishes.Word References:"bow" - 5115 toxon (tox'-on); from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric): KJV-- bow. In the nineteenth chapter we will see the true Christ coming in all his glory, and then this first rider of the white horse will go to the pit. The first rider of the white horse does not come in war, for no arrows are mentioned; but in religious peace. This is important to remember, for it could bring about your downfall through deception. He comes in peacefully and prosperouslyIt is also very consistant with scripture Satan/antichrist is the great deceiver, a copy cat, he will be claiming to be christ he will mimic all that he can. This theme of imposter is in other verse's as well.

 

[Christina]

DocumentationThe references in 19:11-16 to the rider on the white horse as "Faithful and True" and as one who judges and makes war with justice stands in contrast to the rider in 6:2, who is not faithful or true and who wages war for unjust conquest. Moreover, the Lamb opens the seals and would not be one of the riders, nor would it be proper to have an angelic being call forth Christ. Again, a "bow" would most naturally be connected with the enemy of God's people (Eze 39:3). . . . The evidence, however, seems to favor . . . the Antichrist and his forces that seek to conquer the followers of Christ. (Vol. 2, p. 1160-1161)The Wycliffe Bible Commentary by Moody Press, first published in 1962, also says it cannot be Christ because of the other three horses and quotes another commentator saying: "Can there be any doubt that this is the vision of antiChrist? It so resembles the real Christ that it deceives people, (Thomas F. Torrance, The Apocalypse Today, p. 44).http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/tbr/tbr026.htm

 

[lecoop]

(thesuperjag;50215)
Revelation 6:2 - And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.The first horse is Satan. (aka the AntiChrist)
So that is your opinion. Again, I ask, what words here give you that conclusion? Does God use white for righteousness, or for evil? Of course, for righteousness: from Genesis to Revelation, white is used for righteousness. How strange then, that you believe in this one verse, God changed. Who conquers? Romans 8:37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Revelation 19:14 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.I don't see the first white horse was being called Faithful and True.
First, we know who the rider is on this horse: It is Christ Jesus. He is on a white horse. Why not a black horse? Because from Genesis to Revelation, God used the color white to represent righteousness. The problem with your argument is, no one has said that the rider of the first white horse is Jesus Christ: just as if we had only two choices. I say, we are NOT limited to two choices. Why do you think we are?
How do I know that the first white horse is Satan the Anti-Christ? Easy, this verse should do it...II Corinthians 11:14 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Ah! So you are admitting that the first horse and rider looks righteous. Thank you. He looks that was because He is.Who transforms Satan: do you suppose God the father transforms Satan into an angel? Of course not! Satan does that on his own. Where do you suppose this vision John is watching, is coming from? Who is originating it? Do you think Satan is given this vision? Of course, the antichrist, or the dragon behind him, would want to paint themselves white - but this vision is coming from God the Father! All we need do is look in chapter 17 to see what color God the Father chose to color the beast. He chose fiery red! God chose to use the color white 70 times in the bible. Please, try and find one other verse where white represents evil. Good luck on that search!Next, what is the context of this first seal? If you take off preconceived glasses, and read the clues that John gives us, you will see that your timing is 2000 years off. Look at it this way: Revelation chapter 1 is clearly speaking of events that took place about 95 AD. Chapter 21 is clearly about events at least a thousand years into our future. Therefore, somewhere between these two chapters, there will be a "crossover" point, where John passed from history to future. I can tell you, it is not Rev. 4:1.Coop

 

[Christina]

White is not the important thing here dont be naive You are basing scripture on a color.with someone who is the great mimicker (copy cat) thats how he operates he is the fake christ. as I have documented. Theres much more said here than color. If antichrist didnt copy what scripture says about Christs coming he wouldnt be accepted as the antichrist could we let common sense shine on this. If you are going to fake out the whole world that you are christ then you must copy the white horse this is what you are being told here this is the fake. Ive already told you the clue here is to mimic Christ thus he is the Antichrist you purposely trying to twist Jag words into something he did not say are you here to study scripture or play games?The rider on the first white horse is Satan/antichrist as most all scholars will tell you. This is Satans/motive of operation here is another example of his mimicking copy cat behavior for another example of this mimicking type behavior compare Luk 10:18 the fake with the real of Mat 24:27 , Luk 17:24Notice one is east to west across the sky one the other is coming down(counterfit)This is not only proved out by the Greek of the word Bow but many scholarsand type if you refuse to see this anymore conversation down this path is useless.

 

[lecoop]

(kriss;50225)
White is not the important thing here dont be naive You are basing scripture on a color.with someone who is the great mimicker (copy cat) thats how he operates he is the fake christ. as I have documented. Theres much more said here than color. If antichrist didnt copy what scripture says about Christs coming he wouldnt be accepted as the antichrist could we let common sense shine on this. If you are going to fake out the whole world that you are christ then you must copy the white horse this is what you are being told here this is the fake. Ive already told you the clue here is to mimic Christ thus he is the Antichrist you purposely trying to twist Jag words into something he did not say are you here to study scripture or play games?The rider on the first white horse is Satan/antichrist as most all scholars will tell you. This is Satans/motive of operation here is another example of his mimicking copy cat behavior for another example of this mimicking type behavior compare Luk 10:18 the fake with the real of Mat 24:27 , Luk 17:24Notice one is east to west across the sky one the other is coming down(counterfit)This is not only proved out by the Greek of the word Bow but scholarsand type if you refuse to see this anymore conversation down this path is useless.
Of course it is useless. You come up with man made ideas, preconceived glasses in place, with no idea what the intent of the author, the Holy Spirit, really is.You say color is not important. But God says "every word" is important, and "proceedeth out of the mouth of God." You cannot ignore the color of the horse, else you will be wrong. You cannot ignore the context, else you will be even further from the truth. If you knew where the author starts the 70th week, you would know that you timing is way off here. You want to start the 70th week 2000 years early.What does the context tell you? Let me give you some hints. John saw the throne room. This is the context. Perhaps you can answer the following questions about what John saw.1. John saw a vision - approximately 95 AD. He saw the throne, and saw God on the throne, but JEsus was NOT THERE at the right hand of God. Why? Stephen saw Jesus at the right hand of the father, many years before. There are several scriptures that tell us that Jesus ascended to be at the father's right hand. Yet John did not see him. You cannot ignore this, and hope to understand the timing of the first seal.Next, John saw the Holy Spirit there, yet Jesus said that as soon as He ascended, He would send the Holy Spirit down. Why then, was the Holy Spirit there? You cannot ignore this, and hope to understand the timing of the first seal.Next, a search was made and completed, to find a man worthy to break the seals - yet this search ended in failure - causing John to weep much. Why did the search end in failure? This is the context. You cannot ignore this, and hope to understand the timing of the first seal.Next, John tells us that three of the riders ride together, and one rides alone. Three are in cahoots, and one is not with the three. Which one, then, rides alone? You cannot ignore this context, and hope to understand the timing of the first seal. Neither can you take what anyone else says about it. If you are to teach, you must know these things - else you will be teaching error.Coop

 

[samy]

The rider on the white horse carries the wrong weapon, a bow. He is not Christ. Christ carries only the two edged sword, the word of God. But the rider is moving righteousness forward (white horse). Simply the hermaneutic of Revelation and colors of horses in prophetic passages throughout Scripture. This cannot be Satan since this rider is opposed by the rider on the Red Horse, who kills many saints who we find under the altar in seal five. samy

 

[Jordan]

(lecoop;50242)
(Kriss;50225)
White is not the important thing here dont be naive You are basing scripture on a color.with someone who is the great mimicker (copy cat) thats how he operates he is the fake christ.as I have documented.Theres much more said here than color. If antichrist didnt copy what scripture says about Christs coming he wouldnt be accepted as the antichrist could we let common sense shine on this. If you are going to fake out the whole world that you are christ then you must copy the white horse this is what you are being told here this is the fake.Ive already told you the clue here is to mimic Christ thus he is the Antichrist you purposely trying to twist Jag words into something he did not say are you here to study scripture or play games?The rider on the first white horse is Satan/antichrist as most all scholars will tell you. This is Satans/motive of operation here is another example of his mimicking copy cat behaviorfor another example of this mimicking type behavior compare Luk 10:18 the fake with the real of Mat 24:27 , Luk 17:24Notice one is east to west across the sky one the other is coming down(counterfit)This is not only proved out by the Greek of the word Bow but scholarsand type if you refuse to see this anymore conversation down this path is useless.
Of course it is useless. You come up with man made ideas, preconceived glasses in place, with no idea what the intent of the author, the Holy Spirit, really is.You say color is not important. But God says "every word" is important, and "proceedeth out of the mouth of God." You cannot ignore the color of the horse, else you will be wrong. You cannot ignore the context, else you will be even further from the truth. If you knew where the author starts the 70th week, you would know that you timing is way off here. You want to start the 70th week 2000 years early.What does the context tell you? Let me give you some hints. John saw the throne room. This is the context. Perhaps you can answer the following questions about what John saw.1. John saw a vision - approximately 95 AD. He saw the throne, and saw God on the throne, but JEsus was NOT THERE at the right hand of God. Why? Stephen saw Jesus at the right hand of the father, many years before. There are several scriptures that tell us that Jesus ascended to be at the father's right hand. Yet John did not see him. You cannot ignore this, and hope to understand the timing of the first seal.Next, John saw the Holy Spirit there, yet Jesus said that as soon as He ascended, He would send the Holy Spirit down. Why then, was the Holy Spirit there? You cannot ignore this, and hope to understand the timing of the first seal.Next, a search was made and completed, to find a man worthy to break the seals - yet this search ended in failure - causing John to weep much. Why did the search end in failure? This is the context. You cannot ignore this, and hope to understand the timing of the first seal.Next, John tells us that three of the riders ride together, and one rides alone. Three are in cahoots, and one is not with the three. Which one, then, rides alone? You cannot ignore this context, and hope to understand the timing of the first seal. Neither can you take what anyone else says about it. If you are to teach, you must know these things - else you will be teaching error.CoopII Timothy 3:1 - This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.II Timothy 3:2 - For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,II Timothy 3:3 - Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,II Timothy 3:4 - Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;II Timothy 3:5 - Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.(samy;50252)
The rider on the white horse carries the wrong weapon, a bow. He is not Christ. Christ carries only the two edged sword, the word of God. But the rider is moving righteousness forward (white horse). Simply the hermaneutic of Revelation and colors of horses in prophetic passages throughout Scripture. This cannot be Satan since this rider is opposed by the rider on the Red Horse, who kills many saints who we find under the altar in seal five. samy
Dear samy, all of Revelation is nowhere near to be taken literally. This rider (Red) is still Satan's doing, for he has and is still killing so many people today as not many people can discern what is True and False. Many people especially in the Christian world is dying spiritually.

 

[lecoop]

(samy;50252)
The rider on the white horse carries the wrong weapon, a bow. He is not Christ. Christ carries only the two edged sword, the word of God. But the rider is moving righteousness forward (white horse). Simply the hermaneutic of Revelation and colors of horses in prophetic passages throughout Scripture. This cannot be Satan since this rider is opposed by the rider on the Red Horse, who kills many saints who we find under the altar in seal five. samy
Why do you say "wrong" weapon? God gave him the weapon. Who are we to say it is "wrong?" However, I think you mean it is "wrong" to prove that this rider is Christ. No one has said He is Christ. You are very astute to show that white represents righteousness. You are correct, you go to the head of the class, and you get a gold star! Good job! He is neither satan nor the beast (antichrst) nor the false prophet.If one studies the context, and finds out when the rider rides out, then one can determine who this rider is to represent. This is very difficult will preconceived glasses on.There is no reason what-so-ever, to think or imagine that this first horse and rider are evil. That idea or theory is just man's imagination.Coop

 

[Christina]

Ezekiel 39:3 3And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.Reelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."This "bow" in the Greek is a cheap fabric, or imitation, In the Greek it's called "toxon". "bow" - 5115 toxon (tox'-on); from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric): KJV-- bow. Bible comentary shows[crown] - Greek word is "stephanos" which is a crown of victory.(as won/taken)... not a crown of sovereigny. [conqueror] - This is the AntiChrist, the "man of sin" who comes and tries to conquer the world. See DAN 9:26- http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?id=870&rc=1&list=multiThis first seal we will see in detail in the ninth chapter. It takes place after the fifth trumpet sounds, Satan is the first morning star to come. This is why the rapture doctrine is so dangerous, for it ties its followers to the first Christ to come, who is the AntichristThe first sealis the fith trumpet The rider on the first white horse is Antichrist/although I do not agree that it is Christ I can see where this could be mistaken but your idea lecoop thats its neither has no basis.Thus, the two riders on white horses serve as theological bookends for Revelation. The messiah figure in Revelation 6 is a fraudulent copy of Jesus Christ, the true messiah. When the white horse rider of Revelation 6 goes out to conquer, havoc and death result. When the Messiah on the white horse of chapter 19 goes out to conquer, he ushers in peace and salvation.As Revelation can be thought of as a tale of two cities—Babylon the Great and the New Jerusalem—it is also a tale of two systems. There is a false system represented by its messiahs who think they can bring peace through conquest (as did the Roman Empire). But only Christ can bring in lasting peace and eternal life in the kingdom of God.http://www.wcg.org/lit/bible/Rev/sixseals.htm

 

[Christina]

Rev.6: 2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse; and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him and he went forth conquering and to conquer. Here we are shown the first of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the White Horse. The rider on the white horse carries a bow and goes forth conquering and to conquer. nothing can halt his advance. pay attention to the FIRST CLUE to understanding Bible prophecy. It is comparing scripture with scripture: of letting the Bible interpret itself; of searching for the meaning of one obscure passage in another part of the Bible which describes the same subject or event in a simplified way.It is perfectly obvious that there is only one future, and it follows that no matter how many Bible prophecies there may be concerning the future, they cannot contradict each other and still all be correct. Therefore, if one prophet describes the future in symbolic language in one book, and another tells of the same future in another part of the scriptures in simple language, a comparison of one scripture with the other will obviously direct us to the real meaning. To help us understand the symbolic language of the Revelation we will first consider another Bible prophecy describing the same end-time scenes in simple language. The prophecy we will look at is our Lord's famous Olivet prophecy recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. In that prophecy the Master spoke of the end-time, the period in earth's history which occurs just prior to his return to earth. The Olivet prophecy is in plain language with a minimum of symbolic references. The order of events in the Saviour's plain language prediction, therefore, ought to be similar to those described in symbolic language in the Revelation, for both prophecies deal with the same events in the last days. When we examine the two prophecies side by side, that is exactly what we find. One complements the other, explains and fills in details which the other lacks: and together they provide us with a detailed picture of the world's future as it will occur just before the Master returns to earth.Using this method of allowing one scripture to interpret another, we find that the white horse of Revelation 6 corresponds with the Saviour's warning message in Matthew 24.4-5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. This is plainly a WARNING message: Take heed! says the Master. The vast majority of Bible prophecies are in a sense warning messages, given by the Almighty to warn people of approaching punishment or danger.In the above posts Ive presented here in #31 and #32 I have documented through scripture and bible commentary and language and other sources that this rider is the great imposter Antichrist the seals are not in order the trumps are. If you refuse to see this is documented fact not speculation then carry on with your delusions. You will not get rev. details right with out proper foundation Im not asking you to agree with me. These are well documented facts.

 

[Jordan]

Matthew 24:23 - Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.Matthew 24:26 - Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

 

[setfree]

(kriss;50271)
Ezekiel 39:3 Reelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."This "bow" in the Greek is a cheap fabric, or imitation, In the Greek it's called "toxon". "bow" - 5115 toxon (tox'-on); from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric): KJV-- bow. Bible comentary shows[crown] - Greek word is "stephanos" which is a crown of victory.(as won/taken)... not a crown of sovereigny. [conqueror] - This is the AntiChrist, the "man of sin" who comes and tries to conquer the world. See DAN 9:26- http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?id=870&rc=1&list=multiThis first seal we will see in detail in the ninth chapter. It takes place after the fifth trumpet sounds, Satan is the first morning star to come. This is why the rapture doctrine is so dangerous, for it ties its followers to the first Christ to come, who is the AntichristThe first sealis the fith trumpet The rider on the first white horse is Antichrist/although I do not agree that it is Christ I can see where this could be mistaken but your idea lecoop thats its neither has no basis.http://www.wcg.org/lit/bible/Rev/sixseals.htm
I have always heard that the first horse was the Antichrist too. I notice that he has a bow, but no arrows. As far as this being dangerous for those that believe in the rapture..I do not see. If I choose to believe in the rapture, I will not be fooled by the antichrist. If the antichrist show himself why would I believe in him? I will be waiting for the rapture....If the rapture does not happen, I will be waiting for my Lord. Either way if I am a child of the King (which I am) He will show me the way!

 

[Christina]

I pray so setfree but the delusion he is christ will be so strong that if God had not shortened the time even the very Elect would be fooled.What if he promises you a rapture to come as soon as he takes care of some buisness here on earth are you going to believe him?? How you going to know if its the real or the fake?? There is only one way that God told you HOW do know this that is that the fake comes FIRST

 

[Jordan]

(kriss;50283)
I pray so setfree but the delusion he is christ will be so strong that if God had not shortened the time even the very Elect would be fooled.What if he promises you a rapture to come as soon as he takes care of some buisness here on earth are you going to believe him?? How you going to know if its the real or the fake??
The best no-scriptural yet inspired advice thing I can say, trust no one at all... (of course this is only saying that if one does not know scripture)Gah, I hate him with a passion...

 

[lecoop]

(kriss;50271)
Ezekiel 39:3 3And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.Reelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."This "bow" in the Greek is a cheap fabric, or imitation, In the Greek it's called "toxon".
Nice try, Kriss, but a non-sequitur. Ezekiel not talking about the leopard beast of chapter 13 - the antichrist.
"bow" - 5115 toxon (tox'-on); from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric): KJV-- bow. Bible comentary shows[crown] - Greek word is "stephanos" which is a crown of victory.(as won/taken)... not a crown of sovereigny.
Sorry, but Mr. Strong totally missed it here, with fabric! "Toxon" came from the poison put on the arrows, and the bow to shoot these poison arrows then became known as "toxon." We get our word "toxic" from this. In classical Greek from the same period, a bow (to shoot arrows) was always called a toxon. It was used many times in the Greek Septuagent, always a a bow that shoots an arrow. This rider carried a bow, not a ribbon. Since this is the only time this Greek word was used in the bible, it is legitimate, I believe, to look at the root word. It is "tikto." Here is Thayers:1) to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit from the seed) a) of a woman giving birth

of the earth bringing forth its fruitsThis first rider, sent out about 33 AD, was to represent the church of Jesus Christ, sent out to conquer the world. The horse is shown to represent battle. There is always a battle to get the Gospel to the world. The horse was white to represent righteousness. The church was and is the righteousness of Jesus Christ. The church was sent out to make disciples of all nations. Would Satan just stand aside, and allow the church to go? Oh no! There would be a battle at every step - so the word conquer is used. Actually, the Greek for conquer here was translated 24 times as overcome, and only 2 times as conquer. Is the church an overcomer? Of course. Now, the root word, "tikto" above said "to bring forth, bear, produce (fruit...) Or of the earth producing its fruit. This is an exact picture of the church of Jesus Christ. It started with 120 in the upper room, and now, 2000 years later, maybe 1/4 of the world's population is born again. Has the church conquered? I would say YES! The bow is to represent a weapon, because that is what it is. But there are no arrows, because our weapons are not physical weapons, but spiritual, to the overthrough of strongholds!
[conqueror] - This is the AntiChrist, the "man of sin" who comes and tries to conquer the world. See DAN 9:26- http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?id=870&rc=1&list=multi
Show me ONE word in his description that gives one hint of evil! It is not there! This is man's imagination, running wild. Take off the preconceived glasses, and read what is really there!
This first seal we will see in detail in the ninth chapter. It takes place after the fifth trumpet sounds, Satan is the first morning star to come. This is why the rapture doctrine is so dangerous, for it ties its followers to the first Christ to come, who is the AntichristThe first sealis the fith trumpet The rider on the first white horse is Antichrist/although I do not agree that it is Christ I can see where this could be mistaken but your idea lecoop thats its neither has no basis.
For the readers: always remember this axiom:Any theory that needs to rearrange the God given chronology of Revelation, is immediately suspect, and will be proven wrong.Kriss, why do you think the Holy Spirit put the book in the order given, as in 1-7, in the seals, 1-7 in the trumpets, and 1-7 in the vials, not to mention, 1-3 in the woes? They could count way back then. For the readers: what this means, is that all 7 of the seals will be broken before even one of the trumpets can be sounded; all 7 of the trumpets must be sounded before even the first vial can be poured out. Therefore, it is imipossible that ANY trumpet is speaking of ANY seal. Let's straighten out this mess.The first five seals were broken as soon as Jesus ascended into heaven. That is EXACTLY what the context of chapter 5 tells us, with no preconceived glasses on. Therefore, the first seal MUST represent something righteous around 33 AD. There can be only one thing: that is the church of Jesus Christ, sent out to conquer the nations, and make disciples.We are waiting on the 6th seal. That will be a key to the 70th week. Notice what John says:Rev. 616 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?At the breaking of the 6th seal, the worldwide earthquake, and the cosmic signs in the sun and moon, all people realize that the Day of the Lord (and the 70th week) is about to start.Once the 70th week, and day of the Lord begin, the trumpets will be sounded, one by one; perhaps each will last 5 months, with a two month reprieve to see if men repent. That would make 6 trumpets times 7 months - which would equal 42 months. (this is just a guess - not written) (The 7th trumpet cannot be counted, as it is the "marker" for the midpoint.)Therefore, the 5th trumpet has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the first seal. For the readers: take note, when an error is made in one part of the book, then further errors must be added to make sense of it. When read without preconceived glasses, the chronology makes perfect sense, just as it is written, and there is no need to re-arrange the book.
Thus, the two riders on white horses serve as theological bookends for Revelation. The messiah figure in Revelation 6 is a fraudulent copy of Jesus Christ, the true messiah. When the white horse rider of Revelation 6 goes out to conquer, havoc and death result. When the Messiah on the white horse of chapter 19 goes out to conquer, he ushers in peace and salvation.
One error in exogesis leads to another and another.... The first horse is the church of Jesus christ - the second horse IS Jesus Christ. Both are white to represent righteousness. For the readers: there in NO MENTION of havoc and death with the first rider. That is man's imagination. When the second white horse comes - Jesus Christ - millions will die. Buzzards will feast. This is what is written - when read with no preconceived glasses on.
As Revelation can be thought of as a tale of two cities—Babylon the Great and the New Jerusalem—it is also a tale of two systems. There is a false system represented by its messiahs who think they can bring peace through conquest (as did the Roman Empire). But only Christ can bring in lasting peace and eternal life in the kingdom of God.
Finally, I can agree with something! The beast will come - and John gets to him at the right time in his narative: at chapter 13.Coop

 

[lecoop]

(kriss;50274)
Rev.6: 2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse; and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him and he went forth conquering and to conquer. Here we are shown the first of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, the White Horse. The rider on the white horse carries a bow and goes forth conquering and to conquer. nothing can halt his advance. pay attention to the FIRST CLUE to understanding Bible prophecy. It is comparing scripture with scripture: of letting the Bible interpret itself; of searching for the meaning of one obscure passage in another part of the Bible which describes the same subject or event in a simplified way.It is perfectly obvious that there is only one future, and it follows that no matter how many Bible prophecies there may be concerning the future, they cannot contradict each other and still all be correct. Therefore, if one prophet describes the future in symbolic language in one book, and another tells of the same future in another part of the scriptures in simple language, a comparison of one scripture with the other will obviously direct us to the real meaning. To help us understand the symbolic language of the Revelation we will first consider another Bible prophecy describing the same end-time scenes in simple language. The prophecy we will look at is our Lord's famous Olivet prophecy recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. In that prophecy the Master spoke of the end-time, the period in earth's history which occurs just prior to his return to earth. The Olivet prophecy is in plain language with a minimum of symbolic references. The order of events in the Saviour's plain language prediction, therefore, ought to be similar to those described in symbolic language in the Revelation, for both prophecies deal with the same events in the last days. When we examine the two prophecies side by side, that is exactly what we find. One complements the other, explains and fills in details which the other lacks: and together they provide us with a detailed picture of the world's future as it will occur just before the Master returns to earth.Using this method of allowing one scripture to interpret another, we find that the white horse of Revelation 6 corresponds with the Saviour's warning message in Matthew 24.4-5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. This is plainly a WARNING message: Take heed! says the Master. The vast majority of Bible prophecies are in a sense warning messages, given by the Almighty to warn people of approaching punishment or danger.In the above posts Ive presented here in #31 and #32 I have documented through scripture and bible commentary and language and other sources that this rider is the great imposter Antichrist the seals are not in order the trumps are. If you refuse to see this is documented fact not speculation then carry on with your delusions. You will not get rev. details right with out proper foundation Im not asking you to agree with me. These are well documented facts.
There is, indeed, a parallel between the Olivet discourse, and Revelation. The deciples were showing Jesus the temple, and He told them that not one stone would be left on another. So they asked Him when - and then asked Him about the end of the age. We must remember what age they were in. This was before the age of grace, and before the church. They were in the age of law - although it was about to be put on hold for 2000 years! So we must get this picture: it was about 33 AD, and Jesus is going to tell about the future: from a 33 AD perspective. Therefore, there is 2000 years for Him to cover, before He gets to the end. That is exactly what He does. The first question ask of Him was when the temple would be destroyed. He never gave a direct answer to that question. What He did do, was start with then, and cover the church age:Matt 244 ...Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. Many people read this with preconceived glasses, and suppose Jesus is talking about the 70th week. They are wrong. This is about the church age: the last 2000 years. he tells us this: "the end is not yet." He is not speaking of the time of the end yet. This portion of the discourse, follows the four horsemen. The church was sent out to make disciples of all nations - which would include conquering or overcoming the demonic strongholds that had been in place for thousands of years. Then, Satan tries to stop the church, with everything in his arsonal: wars, rumors of wars, pestilences, famine - everthing we see with the red horse, the black horse, and the pale horse.Coop

 

[Christina]

Sorry you are the one with a theroy you have to call Strongs, Moody and all the other evidence wrong to come up with an concept all to prove your wrong point that the last trump isnt the 7th you will deny all the evidence that makes your idea based on a misconception of the rider on the horse. So you have a mistake based on a mistake as your doctrine. when you have to deny that much evidence to make a point that doesnt fit the rest of scripture its just your doctrine it means nothing its just empty talk. You have proved that you will deny anything to push your doctrine so that tells me you more interested in keeping your opinion than discovering the truth. Nothing personal you Carry on Ive better things to do then play watch me mess with scripture games.This is a bible study site not a.. the doctrine according to lecoop site. Just calling me wrong and denying the evidence doesnt prove your point or futher your case it just makes you a guy with an opinion. The 7th trump is the last trump the rider on the first horse is Antichrist this is scripture as I have documented it many ways.

 

[setfree]

lecoop, You have given me somethings to think about. I will have to admit I have NEVER heard this before.