A Biblical Lesson on Spiritual Discernment

[TribulationSigns]

The way I have seen here lately, there's no point in posting the contradictions I see because they already have explanations for all of them, and they won't be persuaded. Why? Because they lack spiritual discernment!

Sad, but that is "generally" true. What's that old expression?

"When you're a Hammer, everything looks like a nail!"

The point is to examine the item first to see if it really is a nail, because perhaps it is just the pattern of a nail. Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus to defer to the "authority" of the word of God to define terms. Whether stones, trees, a city, a temple, a tabernacle, the promised land, bread, wine, or anything else, it's not always as it seems. God defines His own terms. As Christ Himself so ably illustrated in the Healing/Restoration of the Blind man spoken of in the book of Mark. While he was blind, men appeared ὁράω or [horao], as trees. That is to say, until that man was healed by Christ, and it was then that He said that the trees were actually men. Where once he was blind and saw mysterious imagery, now he saw the truth of what they were. Selah!

Mark 8:23-25

• "And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
• And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
• After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly."

This is a whole Spiritual lesson in itself! To be blind is to be in spiritual darkness where you cannot see things as they actually are. They are seen as a mystery/secret. But once we are healed by Christ, our spiritual eyes are opened, and we can understand that the tree is actually a man. ...as in Revelation chapter 7 again. For example:

Revelation 7:3

• "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

God is not speaking about saving the physical earth, the sea, and the trees "until" all his servants are saved. It "appears" that way, but the truth is, the imagery in this context is of the world/creation. God is saying this judgment cannot come upon the people of the world (earth, sea, trees) that they are hurt UNTIL after He has saved His People from out of this world. For example, God is long-suffering, not willing that any of His elect are lost. Those who receive the seal become His people. The earth, sea, and trees represent the unsaved of the world (remember, a tree is known by its fruits?). The earth and sea, clearly represent the people of the world who are not spiritually healed. That's why they cannot be hurt until God patiently restores every single elect who is to be saved first. His servants must be sealed first before the loosening of the beast and the Great Tribulation. In other words, a great apostasy, a falling away from the faith is going to take place upon the world, but not until all Israel (the 144,000) are sealed FIRST! This is the mystery of God to reveal secrets to many, and blind others, as is His divine good Sovereign will.

...all that to say, not everyone is going to understand that the stones of the city and Temple represent people. These things are spiritually discerned. We can but pray for their understanding. However, whether they do or not see is all according to the will of God.

And when they don't, they fall back on the "it's a paradox" to explain how it is not actually true.

Well, indoctrination is a strong thing. Or others will play the dueling Scriptures game as if that will make your scripture null and void. Do they really think all God is interested in is the physical stones of a building falling down? Is a falling building the judgment that God speaks of concerning Israel? Is our Lord's interest in having them see their physical Temple fall, or is it in having them see their own fall? To have them (and us) consider God's Word "carefully" and understand what's really important is not physical--not meat and drink? It's what meat and drink represent!!

Luke 19:43-44

• "For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
• And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

Did God discuss with a literal/physical City? Who are the city's children in this context? Right there we should understand the judgment of the city falling and being laid even with the ground, are the people! I mean, if we're being honest with ourselves, which is difficult to do when you are indoctrinated. A little spittle on the eyes and we can see this clearly! In this context, it is perfectly clear Christ is talking about the city representing the congregation, and it's children as the stones laid even with the ground. It's the people of his Old Covenant congregation and not the physical stones of a literal Jerusalem. The judgment is on the people as the spiritual city representing the house of the Lord, not the literal Jerusalem. He will lay the people even with the ground "as if" they were literal stones, not every literal stone in 70 AD as the misguided proponents of Josephus imagine! It's the "imagery" of total destruction in the fall of Israel at the cross. Not 70 AD, at the cross! And its restoration in the Resurrection of Christ. Just as with the Temple:

John 2:19-21

• "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
• Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
• But he spake of the temple of his body."

The Romans did NOT destroy the Temple of prophecy; the people of Israel did! The Jewish people asked for a "Sign" that Christ had authority to cast out these buyers and sellers out of the Temple, and Christ replied, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up!" That was the Sign, but as the people of the congregation today, the people of the congregation then missed it; because they were so busy looking toward the literal Temple rather than the one God actually had in view. Selah. And Christ rebuilt it, stone upon stone, through His resurrection. Selah.

Romans 11:11

• "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

That's how the Old Testament representative congregation Israel fell, and this is how it was restored in the New Testament or Covenant with Israel representation; the church. As I said before, both the Temple and the city represented the Lord's congregation.

Luke 13:34-35

• "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
• Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Can a Physical/literal city kill the prophets, can it stone those sent to it? ...or is the Lord Jesus Christ speaking to a congregation, to a spiritual city? The people's house was left desolate because they didn't know the time of their visitation, and rejected their Messiah. May we pray that God will show mercy and give many the wisdom to discern THE TRUTH of His Most Holy Word instead of being decevied with 70 AD nonsense! More example on the next post...

@rwb

 

[TribulationSigns]

Ever wondered about whether there is some spiritual correlation to Satan Tempting Christ in the wilderness?

I believe it's all spiritually discerned! It is something else that might be a little more obscure or mysterious, and it also correlates to Satan's Tempting Christ in the wilderness. It concerns the connotation in Satan wanting the "literal stones" to be made bread as a "SIGN" that He was the Son of God. Because he was tempting Christ deceitfully, little did he know that Christ would indeed turn stones into bread to feed the hungry, as they would become "representatives" of Him. He is the Holy Temple of which they are the living Stones. Selah!

Proverbs 16:4

• "The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

Satan's deceit and temptations, God uses to His own glory. His comments about literal stones being made bread demonstrate the error of "thinking in earthly or worldly terms about things" that are Spiritual. These are things that we see as the truth revealed by the Spirit, the natural man sees as "foolishness" or "unjust spiritualizing." Those without the Spirit of God to discern signs (as the sign the rulers asked Christ about concerning his authority to cast out of the Temple), are not among the honorable kings and Priests unto God. Nevertheless:

Proverbs 25:2

• "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."

Not a jot or tittle of Scripture is by accident; EVERY WORD is divinely inspired. Satan didn't know that Christ would turn the stones into bread to feed the hungry; he wanted a literal observation. But the just live by faith, and the kingdom of God doesn't come by observation in the sense of literal/physical/earthly peace, kingdoms, thrones, princes, wars, cities, or falling temple stones. It comes by spiritual observations. Do you realize that we are indeed the spiritual stones that offer up the spiritual sacrifices of Christ, the only bread by which man can eat and live. Stones of Christ, The true Holy Temple. Get it??

1st Peter 2:5

• "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

A spiritual bread wherein man would live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Just as Christ hungered and Satan tempted Him to turn stones into bread, Christ bore witness in that moment that neither literal stones or literal bread were what men were to live by, but by the bread which is the word of God. Hello?? In relationship to literal stones and literal bread, Christ turned it to spiritual bread by which we are to live. He said that in reply to Satan's comments about stones "for a reason." The deeper Spiritual lesson for God's people to discern!!

Matthew 4:2-4

• "And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
• And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
• But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

See? Here Satan is talking about physical stones and bread, but Christ uses THAT temptation and equates the physical bread miracle to living by the word of God. And indeed, we "ARE" stones of the Temple, going forth as two witnesses of the word of God. When you've lived as long as I have studying the Bible, you come to realize that none of the language of the Scripture is by chance, inadvertent, or coincidental. It was divinely designed and spiritually circumstantial to be harmonious all throughout the Scriptures. I don't quote theologians often because I don't like to take away from what God actually said and not man. But Augustine of Hippo said something that I believe encapsulates the truth of the harmony of Scripture:

"The New Testament is in the Old concealed, and the New Testament is in the Old revealed."​

This "Biblical" concept is foundational for a sound methodology in understanding the Bible and an objective, foundational Scripturally based hermeneutic. For instance, the 7 lampstands made for the Temple correlate to the 7 lampstands of Revelation. Here, in the temptation of Christ, the temptation of turning stones to bread is a deliberate apologue of God's people "Spiritually" coming as the witness of the word directly from the mouth of God. For example, His Holy messengers (not angels). Satan meant it one way, "literally," Christ turns it around and makes it Spiritual. Selah! That is where many people here don't it! Just as many Christians here tempt the Lord in insisting on His word being literal (as Israel did), and they can only see Scripture literally (as the blind man seeing literal trees), which is meant to be taken spiritually. God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Not in looking for worldly (literal, physical) interpretations and seeing things in the wisdom of the word, but looking at the deeper spiritual meaning. In their worldly wisdom, they are ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the real truth. Unfortunately, many cannot discern this, and many more never will. As it is written:

1st Corinthians 2:13-14

• "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Not my words, the word directly from the mouth of God. The bread from a stone. Just as the Israelites received water from a stone. Again, we must come to realize that none of the language of the Scripture is by chance, inadvertent, or coincidental. It is all divinely and spiritually inspired.

Selah!

@rwb

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The way I have seen here lately, there's no point in posting the contradictions I see because they already have explanations for all of them, and they won't be persuaded. Why? Because they lack spiritual discernment!

Sad, but that is "generally" true. What's that old expression?

"When you're a Hammer, everything looks like a nail!"

The point is to examine the item first to see if it really is a nail, because perhaps it is just the pattern of a nail. Here is the patience of the saints. Here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus to defer to the "authority" of the word of God to define terms. Whether stones, trees, a city, a temple, a tabernacle, the promised land, bread, wine, or anything else, it's not always as it seems. God defines His own terms. As Christ Himself so ably illustrated in the Healing/Restoration of the Blind man spoken of in the book of Mark. While he was blind, men appeared ὁράω or [horao], as trees. That is to say, until that man was healed by Christ, and it was then that He said that the trees were actually men. Where once he was blind and saw mysterious imagery, now he saw the truth of what they were. Selah!

Mark 8:23-25

• "And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
• And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
• After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly."

This is a whole Spiritual lesson in itself! To be blind is to be in spiritual darkness where you cannot see things as they actually are. They are seen as a mystery/secret. But once we are healed by Christ, our spiritual eyes are opened, and we can understand that the tree is actually a man. ...as in Revelation chapter 7 again. For example:

Revelation 7:3

• "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

God is not speaking about saving the physical earth, the sea, and the trees "until" all his servants are saved. It "appears" that way, but the truth is, the imagery in this context is of the world/creation. God is saying this judgment cannot come upon the people of the world (earth, sea, trees) that they are hurt UNTIL after He has saved His People from out of this world. For example, God is long-suffering, not willing that any of His elect are lost. Those who receive the seal become His people. The earth, sea, and trees represent the unsaved of the world (remember, a tree is known by its fruits?). The earth and sea, clearly represent the people of the world who are not spiritually healed. That's why they cannot be hurt until God patiently restores every single elect who is to be saved first. His servants must be sealed first before the loosening of the beast and the Great Tribulation. In other words, a great apostasy, a falling away from the faith is going to take place upon the world, but not until all Israel (the 144,000) are sealed FIRST! This is the mystery of God to reveal secrets to many, and blind others, as is His divine good Sovereign will.

...all that to say, not everyone is going to understand that the stones of the city and Temple represent people. These things are spiritually discerned. We can but pray for their understanding. However, whether they do or not see is all according to the will of God.

And when they don't, they fall back on the "it's a paradox" to explain how it is not actually true.

Well, indoctrination is a strong thing. Or others will play the dueling Scriptures game as if that will make your scripture null and void. Do they really think all God is interested in is the physical stones of a building falling down? Is a falling building the judgment that God speaks of concerning Israel? Is our Lord's interest in having them see their physical Temple fall, or is it in having them see their own fall? To have them (and us) consider God's Word "carefully" and understand what's really important is not physical--not meat and drink? It's what meat and drink represent!!

Luke 19:43-44

• "For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
• And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation."

Did God discuss with a literal/physical City? Who are the city's children in this context? Right there we should understand the judgment of the city falling and being laid even with the ground, are the people! I mean, if we're being honest with ourselves, which is difficult to do when you are indoctrinated. A little spittle on the eyes and we can see this clearly! In this context, it is perfectly clear Christ is talking about the city representing the congregation, and it's children as the stones laid even with the ground. It's the people of his Old Covenant congregation and not the physical stones of a literal Jerusalem. The judgment is on the people as the spiritual city representing the house of the Lord, not the literal Jerusalem. He will lay the people even with the ground "as if" they were literal stones, not every literal stone in 70 AD as the misguided proponents of Josephus imagine! It's the "imagery" of total destruction in the fall of Israel at the cross. Not 70 AD, at the cross! And its restoration in the Resurrection of Christ. Just as with the Temple:

John 2:19-21

• "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
• Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
• But he spake of the temple of his body."

The Romans did NOT destroy the Temple of prophecy; the people of Israel did! The Jewish people asked for a "Sign" that Christ had authority to cast out these buyers and sellers out of the Temple, and Christ replied, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up!" That was the Sign, but as the people of the congregation today, the people of the congregation then missed it; because they were so busy looking toward the literal Temple rather than the one God actually had in view. Selah. And Christ rebuilt it, stone upon stone, through His resurrection. Selah.

Romans 11:11

• "I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

That's how the Old Testament representative congregation Israel fell, and this is how it was restored in the New Testament or Covenant with Israel representation; the church. As I said before, both the Temple and the city represented the Lord's congregation.

Luke 13:34-35

• "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
• Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

Can a Physical/literal city kill the prophets, can it stone those sent to it? ...or is the Lord Jesus Christ speaking to a congregation, to a spiritual city? The people's house was left desolate because they didn't know the time of their visitation, and rejected their Messiah. May we pray that God will show mercy and give many the wisdom to discern THE TRUTH of His Most Holy Word instead of being decevied with 70 AD nonsense! More example on the next post...

@rwb

Spiritual discernment requires discerning the difference between spiritual and physical things and between literal and figurative things in scripture. You are clearly lacking in spiritual discernment. You interpret almost everything in a spiritual or figurative sense. Which leads you to deny the scriptures which talk about the physical destruction of the second temple buildings and the physical destruction of Jewish unbelievers, which occurred in 70 AD. Just because Jesus referred to the people of Jerusalem as "Jerusalem" does not mean you can just spiritualize everything He said. What He described in Luke 19:41-44 is exactly what happened in 70 AD. At that time the people in the city of Jerusalem were surrounded on every side, many of them were killed, and the physical structures within the city, including the temple buildings, were completely destroyed. Exactly as Jesus prophesied. You should be celebrating His pinpoint accuracy in that prophecy, but instead you deny what He was prophesying about.

This is just hilarious to me that someone who denies the existence of the spirit beings Satan, demons and angels thinks that he can teach the rest of us about spiritual discernment. I can't think of anything more hilarious or ironic than this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ever wondered about whether there is some spiritual correlation to Satan Tempting Christ in the wilderness?

I believe it's all spiritually discerned! It is something else that might be a little more obscure or mysterious, and it also correlates to Satan's Tempting Christ in the wilderness. It concerns the connotation in Satan wanting the "literal stones" to be made bread as a "SIGN" that He was the Son of God. Because he was tempting Christ deceitfully, little did he know that Christ would indeed turn stones into bread to feed the hungry, as they would become "representatives" of Him. He is the Holy Temple of which they are the living Stones. Selah!

You deny that Satan is an individual spirit being who exists apart from human beings who was literally tempting Jesus in the wilderness and you think anyone should listen to anything you say? Think again! Selah!

 

[TribulationSigns]

You deny that Satan is an individual spirit being who exists apart from human beings who was literally tempting Jesus in the wilderness and you think anyone should listen to anything you say? Think again! Selah!

Your comment only demonstrates that you have already assumed your conclusion instead of examining the Scriptures. The issue is not whether you can repeat traditional doctrine, but whether you understand what the Scriptures actually reveal about the spirit of Satan. Your lack of spiritual discernment is evident in the fact that you still cannot explain the significance of Jesus' temptation to turn stones into bread beyond a superficial, literal reading. Until you can address the spiritual meaning of that passage instead of appealing to tradition and ridicule, your objection carries no weight. That settles my point!

As usual. Selah!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your comment only demonstrates that you have already assumed your conclusion instead of examining the Scriptures.

False accusation. You have nothing to offer but false accusations. No one takes you seriously here except for one person that you have influenced with your false teaching.

The issue is not whether you can repeat traditional doctrine, but whether you understand what the Scriptures actually reveal about the spirit of Satan.

I do understand it and you don't. That's the problem I'm addressing. The spirit of fallen man or fallen mankind was not tempting Jesus in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights. LOL! What nonsense.

Your lack of spiritual discernment is evident in the fact that you still cannot explain the significance of Jesus' temptation to turn stones into bread beyond a superficial, literal reading. Until you can address the spiritual meaning of that passage instead of appealing to tradition and ridicule, your objection carries no weight. That settles my point!

The meaning of that has nothing to do with who Satan is. Hello? Regardless of what it means, it was a case of a real spirit being named Satan tempting Jesus. You are not willing to address THAT. You're always running away from the actual point being made and not addressing it.

 

[TribulationSigns]

False accusation.

I do understand it and you don't.

Say the natural man.

The spirit of fallen man or fallen mankind was not tempting Jesus in the desert for 40 days and 40 nights. LOL! What nonsense.

Again, say the natural man.

The meaning of that has nothing to do with who Satan is. Hello?

Yes. Hello?

Regardless of what it means, it was a case of a real spirit being named Satan tempting Jesus. You are not willing to address THAT. You're always running away from the actual point being made and not addressing it.

You just proved my point. You insist the temptation has "nothing to do with who Satan is," yet the entire account is about revealing the nature of temptation and the adversary. You have separated the temptation from the tempter because you're reading the passage through the lens of tradition instead of allowing Scripture to define its own symbols.

You keep asserting, "It was a real spirit being," but you've never demonstrated that from the text—you simply assume it. Meanwhile, you dismiss the spiritual significance of the stones, the bread, and the nature of the adversary as though they are irrelevant. That is precisely what a lack of spiritual discernment looks like: ignoring what God is teaching in favor of defending a (ahem) preconceived doctrine of yours.

Until you can explain why Jesus answered every temptation with the Word of God and what the stones, the bread, and the temptation actually signify according to Scripture, you're not refuting my position. You're only repeating a tradition you've never examined. LOL.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You just proved my point. You insist the temptation has "nothing to do with who Satan is," yet the entire account is about revealing the nature of temptation and the adversary. You have separated the temptation from the tempter because you're reading the passage through the lens of tradition instead of allowing Scripture to define its own symbols.

You keep asserting, "It was a real spirit being," but you've never demonstrated that from the text—you simply assume it. Meanwhile, you dismiss the spiritual significance of the stones, the bread, and the nature of the adversary as though they are irrelevant. That is precisely what a lack of spiritual discernment looks like: ignoring what God is teaching in favor of defending a (ahem) preconceived doctrine of yours.

Until you can explain why Jesus answered every temptation with the Word of God and what the stones, the bread, and the temptation actually signify according to Scripture, you're not refuting my position. You're only repeating a tradition you've never examined. LOL.

LOL. None of that relates to the point I'm making which is that Satan is a real spirit being who tempted Jesus in the desert. NOTHING you're saying is refuting that. You say that Satan is the spirit of fallen man or mankind. So, what man was there with Jesus in the desert that was talking to Jesus? Hmmmm? You are not willing to acknowledge the foolishness of your denial of the existence of the real spirit being named Satan as well as spirit beings called angels and demons. You have done absolutely NOTHING to prove that they are not real spirit beings. That belief is foolish and you cannot defend it.

 

[covenantee]

Meanwhile, you dismiss the spiritual significance of the stones, the bread, and the nature of the adversary

You forgot your temple.

Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the body of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the body, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

 

[TribulationSigns]

You forgot your temple.

Matthew 21:12
And Jesus went into the body of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the body, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

You still don't get it, which is not surprising, since you have the same blindness as the Jews. Figures!

 

[covenantee]

You still don't get it, which is not surprising, since you have the same blindness as the Jews. Figures!

I applied your hyperspiritual gnosis to the temple, which you believe represents the body of Christ.

Or don't you believe that any longer?

 

[CrowCross]

our comment only demonstrates that you have already assumed your conclusion instead of examining the Scriptures.

Is there any denomination that believes the way you do? Just curious.

 

[rockytopva]

A moderators lesson on spiritual discernment...

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[covenantee]

Is there any denomination that believes the way you do? Just curious.

It's gnosticism, which is an ancient heresy.

There's no such Christian denomination.

 

[CrowCross]

It's gnosticism, which is an ancient heresy.

There's no such Christian denomination.

Thanks for that info..one could easily read it and see it was strange. I was hoping TS had a link to a website that supported his view.

The problem with making scripture a ...

They are seen as a mystery/secret.

...it open the door for anything meaning anything.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Is there any denomination that believes the way you do? Just curious.

Whether any denomination agrees with me is completely irrelevant. Truth is not established by a church's popularity or denominational approval. The question is not, "Who else believes this?" but, "What do the Scriptures actually teach?" Selah!

I don't derive my doctrine from a denomination, creed, or theological tradition. I derive it from the Word of God. If my interpretation is wrong, then refute it from Scripture (which they failed to do so)—not by taking a denominational survey.

Appealing to denominations instead of engaging the biblical argument is clearly an appeal to tradition, not exegesis. God's Word is the final authority, not the consensus of religious institutions. So let's leave denominations out of it and let the Bible speak for itself, shall we?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Thanks for that info..one could easily read it and see it was strange. I was hoping TS had a link to a website that supported his view.

No, there isn't—and, guess what, I don't need one.

I don't look for websites, denominations, churches, or theological systems to validate what I believe. My authority is the Word of God, not the opinions of men. If my conclusions stand, they stand because they are drawn from Scripture—not because a ministry, seminary, or denomination agrees with them.

The fact that you're looking for someone else to support my position says more about your approach than mine. You're looking for human authority; I'm pointing you to divine authority. Selah :-)

So instead of asking for a website, show me from the Scriptures where my interpretation is wrong. Anyone? That's the only authority that matters. If the Bible is sufficient, then let the Bible settle the issue.

The problem with making scripture a ...


...it open the door for anything meaning anything.

LOL.

The problem isn't making Scripture the authority—the problem is assuming that everyone has the same spiritual understanding of it.

Jesus Himself taught that the mysteries of God's kingdom are not revealed equally to everyone:

"Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given." (Matthew 13:11)

He also explained why He spoke in parables:

"Seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand." (Matthew 13:13)

Paul says the same thing:

"The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14)

And again:

"God has revealed them to us through His Spirit... comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (1 Corinthians 2:10–13)

So no, making Scripture the final authority does not mean that someone who was given to know the mystery will make "anything can mean anything." That is a false assumption. Scripture interprets Scripture, and the Holy Spirit reveals God's mysteries to those who have the Spirit of Christ.

The real question is not whether someone can read the Bible, but whether they are willing to let Scripture define its own symbols and whether they possess the spiritual discernment Christ spoke of. Appealing to 70AD tradition or majority opinion cannot replace the illumination of the Holy Spirit. As Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

The real question is not whether they can read the Scriptures, but whether they can hear and receive the love of the truth. That is ultimately between them and God. My responsibility is simply to testify to what He has revealed in His Word—not to make it acceptable to those who refuse to hear.

 

[rockytopva]

Whether any denomination agrees with me is completely irrelevant. Truth is not established by a church's popularity or denominational approval. The question is not, "Who else believes this?" but, "What do the Scriptures actually teach?" Selah!

I don't derive my doctrine from a denomination, creed, or theological tradition. I derive it from the Word of God. If my interpretation is wrong, then refute it from Scripture (which they failed to do so)—not by taking a denominational survey.

Appealing to denominations instead of engaging the biblical argument is clearly an appeal to tradition, not exegesis. God's Word is the final authority, not the consensus of religious institutions. So let's leave denominations out of it and let the Bible speak for itself, shall we?

How many are true to their denomination these days? If we were to make a denomination a requirement to join this web site how many posts would we have? It is my judgement that the Christian congregations are seven. If I had to take a stab of the seven stars (messengers) to the seven candlesticks (churches)...

Original messenger - Church
1. Peter - Messianic
2. Paul - Early Gentile
3. Constantine - Greek Orthodox
4. Theodosius I - Catholic
5. Martin Luther - Protestant
6. John Wesley - The revived church (Methodist - Pentecostal)
7. Robert Shuller - The Country Club

One Church... Millions of congregations...
1. Ephesus - Messianic Jewish Church
2. Smyrna - Oriental Orthodox - The Roman persecutions were ten
3. Pergamos - Greek Orthodox - Pergos... A tower... Needed in the dark ages
4. Thyatira - Catholic - Middle ages
5. Sardis - Protestant - A sardis is a gem... Beautiful,,, Not much spiritually
6. Philadelphia - Wesleyan - Too bad the revivals didn't last longer
7. Laodicean - Word of Faith - Rich and have need of nothing?


Seven candlesticks - Seven generalized congregation - All unique - And Christ walking in the midst
Seven seals - Those names written in the Lambs Book of Life
Seven stars - Those messengers to the congregations

Regarding who is sealed in the Lamb's Book of Life...

3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5

As far as churches and denomination. I don't have a problem with attending any of them within the seven congregations. I do not, though, have any interest in joining unless I get to know the elders and senior pastor.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thanks for that info..one could easily read it and see it was strange. I was hoping TS had a link to a website that supported his view.

For some reason he doesn't want to tell you this, but he learned everything he believes from this website: Center for Biblical Theology and Eschatology

It's referred to as the Center for False Bible Teaching and Hyper-spiritualized Nonsense. Or something like that. I might have the wording a little off.

 

[covenantee]

Thanks for that info..one could easily read it and see it was strange. I was hoping TS had a link to a website that supported his view.

The problem with making scripture a ...


...it open the door for anything meaning anything.

Any claim to be the sole and exclusive possessor and purveyor of truth is, of course,

classic cultism.

And, as you see, there's plenty of it there.