A Biblical Lesson on Spiritual Discernment

[Spiritual Israelite]

With your philosophy, you can literally make the Bible say whatever you want, and you do. You have no solid standard trustworthy hermeneutics. You make it up as you go.

Is Jesus a real man?

Why will you guys not answer that?

I'm not sure if he believes any prophecy is fully fulfilled yet. This is terrible and dangerous hermeneutics to resort to this idea that every physical fulfillment of prophecy also requires a spiritual fulfillment. Where does this end? Like you said, you can make the Bible say what you want it to say with this kind of reckless approach to interpreting scripture. That is not spiritual discernment, that is spiritualization gone mad.

 

[covenantee]

You must differentiate between the physical temple of Old Covenant Israel and the spiritual Temple of the New Covenant that is both the body and church of Christ. Why did Christ say the physical temple would be destroyed but be speaking of the temple as His body?

Matthew 21:12 (KJV) And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

For those claiming their spiritual discernment that the temple is Christ's body, I've simply rendered their spiritually discerned interpretation of Matthew 21:12.

 

[rwb]

For those claiming their spiritual discernment that the temple is Christ's body, I've simply rendered their spiritually discerned interpretation of Matthew 21:12.

I believe when Christ spoke of the stones of the buildings and temple being cast down, He was speaking LITERALLY of the PHYSICAL buildings and temple the disciples seemed to be enamored with. These words were literally, physically fulfilled in 70 AD.

But when Christ spoke of abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel standing in the holy place what did He mean?

The FACT that the literal physical temple and buildings were destroyed in 70 AD has little to do with all else that Christ said to His disciples from the Mount of Olives. After the advent of Christ, the old temple, buildings and city were no longer the holy place unto God. So, what is the holy place where AOD spoken by Daniel shall be or has been?

As we've been discussing in the thread on Daniel 9, the prophesy of Daniel was literally/physically fulfilled with the advent of Christ giving His life to make atonement for sins, and defeating death. But what did Daniel mean when he said, "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate"?

Da 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Da 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Da 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Da 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Da 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

The AOD is not something literal or physical that can be known through physical sight or understanding. It must be something that can only be spiritually discerned that began with the advent of Christ and will continue to the end of days.

 

[covenantee]

But when Christ spoke of abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel standing in the holy place what did He mean?

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

He meant that the abominating Roman armies compassing and advancing into the holy city of Jerusalem were the sign of its impending desolation.

But what did Daniel mean when he said, "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate"?

Messiah the Prince was the Commander-in-Chief of the abominating Roman armies which desolated Jerusalem and Judaea.

The AOD is not something literal or physical that can be known through physical sight or understanding.

It was known by discerning Christians in 70 AD, who heeded Jesus' warning (Matthew 24:16) and escaped with their lives.

 

[WPM]

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

He meant that the abominating Roman armies compassing and advancing into the holy city of Jerusalem were the sign of its impending desolation.

Messiah the Prince was the Commander-in-Chief of the abominating Roman armies which desolated Jerusalem and Judaea.

It was known by discerning Christians in 70 AD, who heeded Jesus' warning (Matthew 24:16) and escaped with their lives.

Exactly bro! Why would it be anything else?

 

[WPM]

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

He meant that the abominating Roman armies compassing and advancing into the holy city of Jerusalem were the sign of its impending desolation.

Messiah the Prince was the Commander-in-Chief of the abominating Roman armies which desolated Jerusalem and Judaea.

It was known by discerning Christians in 70 AD, who heeded Jesus' warning (Matthew 24:16) and escaped with their lives.

Do you notice that he has no rebuttal to your argument? All he can do is haha. That sums up his typical response to the truth.

 

[rwb]

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

He meant that the abominating Roman armies compassing and advancing into the holy city of Jerusalem were the sign of its impending desolation.

The disciples of Christ would not have remained in Jerusalem forty years after the cross. Before leaving Christ instructed them to remain there until they received power from on high. From the cross to Pentecost was 50 DAYS not years. Before leaving Christ said when they receive the power of the indwelling Spirit, they were to go out unto all the nations of the world preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ. Therefore, this Preterit POV is not logical!

Luke 24:49 (KJV) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Mark 16:15 (KJV) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Luke is the only one to mention armies encompassing Jerusalem, because he himself being a Gentile believer wrote to a majority Gentile audience who would have no understanding of that which was spoken by the prophet Daniel or Jewish traditions and prophesies. Preterits cannot reconcile Luke with what is written in both Matthew and Mark. This forces contradiction and causes confusion.

Messiah the Prince was the Commander-in-Chief of the abominating Roman armies which desolated Jerusalem and Judaea.

I'm astounded that you would speak of Messiah the Prince who is Christ as the commander in chief of the Roman Army! Where in all of Scripture do you find anyone other than Christ spoken of as the most HOLY, THE Messiah which means THE most HOLY Anointed One?

Daniel 9:24 (KJV) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Daniel 9:25 (KJV) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Daniel 9:26 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Messiah The Prince who was to come is none other than Christ Jesus our Lord. And the prophesy of Daniel came to pass 490 years after the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Not some forty years later. Messiah the Prince is the same Messiah who was cut off, but not for Himself. And it was His people, the apostate Jews themselves that destroyed the city and sanctuary through spiritual abominations and pollutions just as they had in the days of Daniel. The first city and temple had spiritually become an abomination unto God, long before the Babylonian Army came to physically destroy them. [Hear Daniel's heartfelt prayer] In the same manner the apostate Jews once more spiritually made the re-built city and temple an abomination unto God long before the Roman Army came and physically destroyed them. The final abomination that assured the utter destruction forty years later was the crucifixion of Christ. This is the abomination that made the nation an utter abomination that the disciples of Christ were to see/have knowledge of then they should flee to the mountains. The disciples did not stick around Jerusalem forty more years waiting to physically see the Roman Army begin to make war against Jerusalem. After Pentecost, Christ's disciples most certainly obeyed Christ and began to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ unto all the nations of the world.

It wasn't the literal Roman Army that would come forty years after the cross, but armies (plural/many) that encompassed Jerusalem not physically, but spiritually through the power of evil the city and temple had become through Jewish apostates who had, like the nation of Old turned away from the one true God to worship idols, committing all manner of spiritual fornications and adultery. The disciples of Christ would understand it was time to flee so that they too would not be among those who turned away from God and would feel His wrath along with those who had forsaken Him.

It was known by discerning Christians in 70 AD, who heeded Jesus' warning (Matthew 24:16) and escaped with their lives.

If the first century disciples of Christ had stayed in Jerusalem/Judaea to wait for the Roman Army to begin to ascend a few years before 70, they too most likely would not have escaped with their lives, nor would they have been obedient to "go out" when they received power from on high.

 

[covenantee]

Do you notice that he has no rebuttal to your argument? All he can do is haha. That sums up his typical response to the truth.

Yeah. The "spiritual discernment" of gnosis.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you notice that he has no rebuttal to your argument? All he can do is haha. That sums up his typical response to the truth.

That's all he can do. He knows he has nothing to refute our arguments.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe when Christ spoke of the stones of the buildings and temple being cast down, He was speaking LITERALLY of the PHYSICAL buildings and temple the disciples seemed to be enamored with. These words were literally, physically fulfilled in 70 AD.

But when Christ spoke of abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel standing in the holy place what did He mean?

The FACT that the literal physical temple and buildings were destroyed in 70 AD has little to do with all else that Christ said to His disciples from the Mount of Olives.

Why do you think that? The disciples asked Him when the temple buildings would be destroyed, so why do you think He would not have answered that question?

Matthew 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

It seems that you do acknowledge that when Jesus said "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down" that He was talking about the destruction of the physical temple buildings. So, "these things" refer to the temple buildings that the disciples were referring to, right? So, the first question the disciples asked Him after that on the mount of Olives was "When will these things be?". The question they were asking is when would these things, the temple buildings, be destroyed. Do you agree? If so, why would you think He wouldn't answer that question?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Exactly bro! Why would it be anything else?

It isn't, of course. Unless you just spiritualize the whole thing for no good reason. It happened exactly as Jesus prophesied in 70 AD. We should be celebrating the pinpoint accuracy of His prophecy, but instead some people claim it has not yet been fulfilled.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The disciples of Christ would not have remained in Jerusalem forty years after the cross. Before leaving Christ instructed them to remain there until they received power from on high. From the cross to Pentecost was 50 DAYS not years. Before leaving Christ said when they receive the power of the indwelling Spirit, they were to go out unto all the nations of the world preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ. Therefore, this Preterit POV is not logical!

Luke 24:49 (KJV) And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Mark 16:15 (KJV) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Luke is the only one to mention armies encompassing Jerusalem, because he himself being a Gentile believer wrote to a majority Gentile audience who would have no understanding of that which was spoken by the prophet Daniel or Jewish traditions and prophesies. Preterits cannot reconcile Luke with what is written in both Matthew and Mark. This forces contradiction and causes confusion.

Not sure what your point is here. There certainly were Christians in Judea around 70 AD and they fled to the mountains to avoid being killed, just as Jesus warned them to do.

I'm astounded that you would speak of Messiah the Prince who is Christ as the commander in chief of the Roman Army! Where in all of Scripture do you find anyone other than Christ spoken of as the most HOLY, THE Messiah which means THE most HOLY Anointed One?

Daniel 9:24 (KJV) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Daniel 9:25 (KJV) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Daniel 9:26 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Messiah The Prince who was to come is none other than Christ Jesus our Lord. And the prophesy of Daniel came to pass 490 years after the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Not some forty years later. Messiah the Prince is the same Messiah who was cut off, but not for Himself. And it was His people, the apostate Jews themselves that destroyed the city and sanctuary through spiritual abominations and pollutions just as they had in the days of Daniel. The first city and temple had spiritually become an abomination unto God, long before the Babylonian Army came to physically destroy them. [Hear Daniel's heartfelt prayer] In the same manner the apostate Jews once more spiritually made the re-built city and temple an abomination unto God long before the Roman Army came and physically destroyed them. The final abomination that assured the utter destruction forty years later was the crucifixion of Christ. This is the abomination that made the nation an utter abomination that the disciples of Christ were to see/have knowledge of then they should flee to the mountains. The disciples did not stick around Jerusalem forty more years waiting to physically see the Roman Army begin to make war against Jerusalem. After Pentecost, Christ's disciples most certainly obeyed Christ and began to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ unto all the nations of the world.

It wasn't the literal Roman Army that would come forty years after the cross, but armies (plural/many) that encompassed Jerusalem not physically, but spiritually through the power of evil the city and temple had become through Jewish apostates who had, like the nation of Old turned away from the one true God to worship idols, committing all manner of spiritual fornications and adultery. The disciples of Christ would understand it was time to flee so that they too would not be among those who turned away from God and would feel His wrath along with those who had forsaken Him.

How do you interpret this passage...

Matthew 22:2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.” ’ 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

What do you think Matthew 22:7 is about?

If the first century disciples of Christ had stayed in Jerusalem/Judaea to wait for the Roman Army to begin to ascend a few years before 70, they too most likely would not have escaped with their lives, nor would they have been obedient to "go out" when they received power from on high.

Why do you say this? They would surely have fled to the mountains just as Jesus warned that believers should do.

 

[covenantee]

The disciples of Christ would not have remained in Jerusalem forty years after the cross.

But the disciples of the disciples would have, and did.
It was they who were the Jerusalem/Judaean Church.
It was they who heeded Jesus warnings, and fled, and preserved their lives.
It was they who were not futurists remaining at home to be crucified.

More to follow...

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

But the disciples of the disciples would have, and did.
It was they who were the Jerusalem/Judaean Church.
It was they who heeded Jesus warnings, and fled, and preserved their lives.
It was they who were not futurists remaining at home to be crucified.

More to follow...

Right. Jesus said those in Judea would need to flee to the mountains. He wasn't talking about the disciples needing to flee.

 

[rwb]

But the disciples of the disciples would have, and did.
It was they who were the Jerusalem/Judaean Church.
It was they who heeded Jesus warnings, and fled, and preserved their lives.
It was they who were not futurists remaining at home to be crucified.

More to follow...

Matthew 24:15 (KJV) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mark 13:14 (KJV) But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Luke 21:20-21 (KJV) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

Matthew tells these first century disciples that "ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet."

Mark also says "ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet."

Luke makes no mention of the abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel the prophet, instead he says, "ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."

Preterits always consider the words of Luke without giving any consideration to what is written in both Matthew and Mark. That's because the Preterit does not build his doctrine FROM the Bible, but using fulfilled history tries to fit what he believes is fulfillment INTO the Bible.

That's why when reading Daniel, which is how the abomination of desolation must be interpreted, you, being Preterit tell us the abomination of desolation is not pointing to the crucifixion of Christ, but is the physical destruction by Roman armies that came in 70 AD. And this is why you also say Messiah the Prince is not Christ but "the Commander-in-Chief of the abominating Roman armies which desolated Jerusalem and Judaea." You're trying to force fit your preconceived doctrine INTO the Bible.

Daniel tells us what the abomination of desolation is. In his prayer Daniel tells us the first literal destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Babylonians was the result of wickedness and sins committed by the Jewish people. Daniel 9:11 "Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him."

Da 9:16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

Daniel 9:17 (KJV) Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

Daniel 9:18 (KJV) O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

All this abomination and desolation upon the city, temple and Jewish people came not from the Babylonians, but from God's chosen nation, Israel. Then Daniel is told by the man, Gabriel what shall befall his people, Israel after the end of 70 years of captivity.

The city and temple would be built again, and the promised Messiah the Prince would come after 490 years would be accomplished and finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. After the coming of Messiah, the Prince, His own people, the Jews, would once again become an abomination unto God. Through their wickedness and evil they, themselves made Jerusalem and the Temple a desolate, abominable spectacle to the world, and appointed them to utter destruction 40 years after the cross of Christ.... "for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." The 'overspreading' or pinnacle/highest/uttermost abominations He, Messiah the Prince shall make it desolate. This through His atoning, sacrificial blood of the New Covenant. Not the physical destruction of the Old Covenant city and temple in 70 AD.

The desolation that followed was not the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD, but the spiritual desolation that resulted from Israel's rejection of their Messiah. In the same way the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Babylonians in 587 or 586 was the result of Israel's rejection of God.

The Preterit will firmly stand only on the writing from Luke imagining physical Roman armies without ever giving a single thought to what is written in Matthew and Mark. All three are easily reconciled together, having the same doctrinal understanding when our doctrine is established upon what is written in the Bible instead of relying on fulfilled history that can and has been used to support almost any doctrine our minds can conceive of.

 

[rwb]

Why do you think that? The disciples asked Him when the temple buildings would be destroyed, so why do you think He would not have answered that question?

Matthew 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” 3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

It seems that you do acknowledge that when Jesus said "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down" that He was talking about the destruction of the physical temple buildings. So, "these things" refer to the temple buildings that the disciples were referring to, right? So, the first question the disciples asked Him after that on the mount of Olives was "When will these things be?". The question they were asking is when would these things, the temple buildings, be destroyed. Do you agree? If so, why would you think He wouldn't answer that question?

Christ did tell them when! And He did not say forty years from now when the Roman Army would wage a great siege upon the city and temple. He answered them by saying, "ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)". Those of understanding of the prophesy of Daniel would see/know/understand the abomination of desolation would be the pinnacle or highest degree of abominations committed by the apostate Jewish people. The pinnacle of sins came when the Jews crucified Jesus. It was after Pentecost and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that was the sign after the cross that the city and temple had become overcome (AOD) with great apostasy through the Pharisees, Sanhedrin, and Priests, apostate Jews all, that led the city to become desolate just as Christ had already pronounced upon them. That's when the disciples were instructed to "go out" unto all the nations of the world preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ unto all people. Christ did NOT tell them (YE Christ's disciples) to stay in Jerusalem/Judaea for 35-40 years waiting to flee when the Roman Army began to lay siege against the city.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

He meant that the abominating Roman armies compassing and advancing into the holy city of Jerusalem were the sign of its impending desolation.

Messiah the Prince was the Commander-in-Chief of the abominating Roman armies which desolated Jerusalem and Judaea.

It was known by discerning Christians in 70 AD, who heeded Jesus' warning (Matthew 24:16) and escaped with their lives.

Seriously, Jesus Christ as Commander in chief of Roman army? Thanks for a good laugh for the day.

Your warped interpretation begins with an assumption that "Jerusalem" in the Olivet Discourse must mean the physical city in the Middle East in 70AD. But that assumption needs to be proven from Scripture, not simply asserted.

The New Testament repeatedly shows that the physical Jerusalem was a shadow pointing to a greater spiritual reality. Paul contrasts the earthly Jerusalem with the Jerusalem above:

"But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." (Galatians 4:26)

The apostles also identify the people of God—not a physical building—as God's temple:

"You are God's temple and God's Spirit dwells in you." (1 Corinthians 3:16)

"You yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house." (1 Peter 2:5)

Therefore, when Christ speaks prophetically about Jerusalem, the temple, and desolation, the question must be asked: Is He referring to earthly geography, or is He using the covenant language of Scripture to describe His New Testament congregation prior to the Second Coming?

The Olivet Discourse is directed to Christ's disciples and concerns the signs preceding His coming, which is clearly at the end of the age:

"What will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24:3)

The focus is not merely a past historical event but the spiritual conflict that continues until the consummation.

The danger Christ warns about is not simply an invading army. He repeatedly warns about spiritual deception. Read carefully:

"Many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray." (Matthew 24:5)

"False christs and false prophets will arise..." (Matthew 24:24)

They are the armies that is surrounding the spiritual Judea and Jerusalem which is the CHURCH!

The abomination of desolation inside the church all over the world is therefore connected to the corruption and desecration of God's true dwelling place...by the false prophets and christs per context of the Olivet discourse — not merely physical stones of a building by your precious Roman armies.

 

[covenantee]

Luke makes no mention of the abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel the prophet, instead he says, "ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh."

God inspired Luke to provide the synoptic interpretation of Matthew and Mark, as well as the interpretation of Daniel, for those willing to recognize and accept it. That, of course, does not include gnostic futurists, who would have remained at home and been crucified.

It wasn't the literal Roman Army that would come forty years after the cross, but armies (plural/many) that encompassed Jerusalem not physically, but spiritually through the power of evil the city and temple had become through Jewish apostates who had, like the nation of Old turned away from the one true God to worship idols, committing all manner of spiritual fornications and adultery. The disciples of Christ would understand it was time to flee so that they too would not be among those who turned away from God and would feel His wrath along with those who had forsaken Him.

Matthew 24
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

If all is spiritual, then please provide your spiritual definition for each of the following. Ensure that you don't miss any:
1. Judaea
2. flee
3. mountains
4. housetop
5. house
6. field
7. clothes
8. woe
9. child
10. suck
11. days
12. flight
13. winter
14. sabbath
15. day

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Christ did tell them when! And He did not say forty years from now when the Roman Army would wage a great siege upon the city and temple. He answered them by saying, "ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)". Those of understanding of the prophesy of Daniel would see/know/understand the abomination of desolation would be the pinnacle or highest degree of abominations committed by the apostate Jewish people. The pinnacle of sins came when the Jews crucified Jesus. It was after Pentecost and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that was the sign after the cross that the city and temple had become overcome (AOD) with great apostasy through the Pharisees, Sanhedrin, and Priests, apostate Jews all, that led the city to become desolate just as Christ had already pronounced upon them. That's when the disciples were instructed to "go out" unto all the nations of the world preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ unto all people. Christ did NOT tell them (YE Christ's disciples) to stay in Jerusalem/Judaea for 35-40 years waiting to flee when the Roman Army began to lay siege against the city.

This does not address what I said at all. When the disciples asked "When shall these things be"? what exactly do you think they were asking with that question? And what do you believe spawned that question?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Seriously, Jesus Christ as Commander in chief of Roman army? Thanks for a good laugh for the day.

Your warped interpretation begins with an assumption that "Jerusalem" in the Olivet Discourse must mean the physical city in the Middle East in 70AD. But that assumption needs to be proven from Scripture, not simply asserted.

The New Testament repeatedly shows that the physical Jerusalem was a shadow pointing to a greater spiritual reality. Paul contrasts the earthly Jerusalem with the Jerusalem above:

"But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." (Galatians 4:26)

The apostles also identify the people of God—not a physical building—as God's temple:

"You are God's temple and God's Spirit dwells in you." (1 Corinthians 3:16)

"You yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house." (1 Peter 2:5)

Therefore, when Christ speaks prophetically about Jerusalem, the temple, and desolation, the question must be asked: Is He referring to earthly geography, or is He using the covenant language of Scripture to describe His New Testament congregation prior to the Second Coming?

The Olivet Discourse is directed to Christ's disciples and concerns the signs preceding His coming, which is clearly at the end of the age:

"What will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" (Matthew 24:3)

The focus is not merely a past historical event but the spiritual conflict that continues until the consummation.

The danger Christ warns about is not simply an invading army. He repeatedly warns about spiritual deception. Read carefully:

"Many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray." (Matthew 24:5)

"False christs and false prophets will arise..." (Matthew 24:24)

They are the armies that is surrounding the spiritual Judea and Jerusalem which is the CHURCH!

The abomination of desolation inside the church all over the world is therefore connected to the corruption and desecration of God's true dwelling place...by the false prophets and christs per context of the Olivet discourse — not merely physical stones of a building by your precious Roman armies.

You are the one who makes us laugh with your nonsense. There is no spiritual Judea. You are making that up. Never is Judea ever referenced in a spiritual sense anywhere in scripture.