A Christian Economy

[newlife]

Capitalism and the advertising industry, which is a necessary adjunct to boost consumption sufficiently so as to allow the economy to function, promotes narcissism, greed, selfishness and a materialistic outlook on life. These are not Christian characteristics. In Acts 2-5 in the very early church immediately following the outpouring of the Holy Spirit believers sold all their possessions and the money was held in common and shared with those who had need. The rich young ruler was instructed by Jesus to sell all his possessions and to give the money to the poor. In the first few centuries Christian communities generously provided charity to its poorest members. With Constantine an imperial, ecclesiastical and more worldly church arose.

Christian ministries have become infected with the values of the mammon worshiping society which surrounds them promising material prosperity and even healing in return for "a seed offering".

I believe God can be with a people even though their institutions may be flawed. Ancient Israel practiced polygamy and slavery. Although the American constitution and other documents were heavily influenced by non-Christian deist and enlightenment philosophy the United States had many believing Christians and political leaders. This has been true in the past in both Europe and the United States. Any economic system divorced of God can be evil. Ayn Rand developed a philosophy she called Objectivism based on unfettered capitalism. She was an atheist and celebrated selfishness which she believed embodied the spirit of capitalism, as a virtue. The libertarian branch of the Republican Party is an heir to this philosophy. Capitalism unregulated has led to exploitation, unsafe working conditions, long work hours, child labor. It led to the 2008 financial crisis which would have resulted in another Great Depression were it not for government intervention. On the other hand Marxism- Leninism is an atheistic system and is hostile to Christianity and has severely persecuted Christians.

Just some thoughts about Christianity and economics which are quite a bit out of the mainstream of politically correct discourse in conservative Christian circles. Hopefully this will stimulate some thought and discussion.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Capitalism has many faults but it is still the best system there is.

The riches and excesses of capitalism also produce the majority of good things for the world .... such as plentiful food , clothing , medical advancements , housing etc

As a rich capitalist becomes rich he drags a lot of poor people up the economic ladder with him

Socialists always think the wealthy should share their riches with them

And in the next breath the socialist liberal wants to abolish capitalism

They want everybody to be poor like them

Who will the socialists run to for handouts when the rich are gone ?

Socialists have a defect because they forget to consider you cannot spread the wealth around if there is no wealth.

 

[newlife]

Arnie Manitoba, I agree with you that capitalism is very dynamic, very prolific, in fact it is a system that requires constant growth to avoid recession or depression. The question is whether it is a Godly or moral system and perhaps it can be if sufficiently regulated and with enough safeguards . Take the question of food for example, the poor starve not because there isn't enough food but because they are too poor to purchase it. If there was sufficient profit for farmers to grow the food and for distributors to distribute the food because the the poor had enough income to purchase it the poor would not be starving. Is it a moral economic system that forces children in Haiti to scavenge for food and other necessities in a dump. But If you live well and are benefiting from the system it may seem like a moral system to you.

 

[Secondhand Lion]

This is another very big topic which is itself very dynamic. It is very hard to get into this conversation without going all the way back to the beginning of the United States. There are many, many problems with the original post's conclusions, mostly because you simply can not make an economic system moral.

Capitalism is neither moral or immoral. It can't be. It can however be used for moral or immoral ends.

The original post also skips over the point that the United States was originally a free market economy. If you ever take the citizenship test, please remember that. The official "economic system" in the US is free market. This point not withstanding our economy is indeed now much closer to that of capitalism.

Who is to blame? We are. We stopped caring for our neighbor in need, stopped giving to the churches so they could distribute to the poor and needy and started letting big brother (government) do it for us. This led to a system where we could "keep our hands clean of the ugly parts of life" and act like they didn't exist. All the while big brother started getting bigger. They get bigger and start cutting deals with corporations to keep the money coming in. The little guy with the family (and part of the community) starts feeling the pain of capitalism instead of free market because the odds are against him with these deals to rob the citizens of their power. Our power is our liberty. We lost our compassion somewhere along the line.

We became the little kids who hide behind their hands while playing hide and seek and believe that because they can't see you...you must not be able to see them.

We are the problem. Nothing more.

SL

 

[[email protected]]

Capitalism and the advertising industry, which is a necessary adjunct to boost consumption sufficiently so as to allow the economy to function, promotes narcissism, greed, selfishness and a materialistic outlook on life. These are not Christian characteristics. In Acts 2-5 in the very early church immediately following the outpouring of the Holy Spirit believers sold all their possessions and the money was held in common and shared with those who had need. The rich young ruler was instructed by Jesus to sell all his possessions and to give the money to the poor. In the first few centuries Christian communities generously provided charity to its poorest members. With Constantine an imperial, ecclesiastical and more worldly church arose.

Christian ministries have become infected with the values of the mammon worshiping society which surrounds them promising material prosperity and even healing in return for "a seed offering".

I believe God can be with a people even though their institutions may be flawed. Ancient Israel practiced polygamy and slavery. Although the American constitution and other documents were heavily influenced by non-Christian deist and enlightenment philosophy the United States had many believing Christians and political leaders. This has been true in the past in both Europe and the United States. Any economic system divorced of God can be evil. Ayn Rand developed a philosophy she called Objectivism based on unfettered capitalism. She was an atheist and celebrated selfishness which she believed embodied the spirit of capitalism, as a virtue. The libertarian branch of the Republican Party is an heir to this philosophy. Capitalism unregulated has led to exploitation, unsafe working conditions, long work hours, child labor. It led to the 2008 financial crisis which would have resulted in another Great Depression were it not for government intervention. On the other hand Marxism- Leninism is an atheistic system and is hostile to Christianity and has severely persecuted Christians.

Just some thoughts about Christianity and economics which are quite a bit out of the mainstream of politically correct discourse in conservative Christian circles. Hopefully this will stimulate some thought and discussion.

God is just and righteous.

I believe God can be with a people even though their institutions may be flawed.
- newlife

Your suggestion that God will wink at the abominations and crimes and injustices of America - simply because America does it is unfounded and anti-Christian. It is quite simply NOT true. American exceptionalism is not mentioned in the Bible as an excuse to justify debauchery on a continental scale.

Look at history, beginning with the Biblical account of what happened to Israel. God's favored race and nation, if ever there was one, was Israel. The Hebrews and later the Jews thought they were the favored of God and that God would allow any sort of abuse they came up with - including but not limited to passive indifference and outright rejection of God and the blessings of heaven.

"The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disegards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven iself hath ordained."
- George Washington April 30, 1789 NYC (dedication of the nation)

The question is what man worships. In the modern age it's the stars and stripes, it's the Republican party (or the Democrats if that's your flavor of choice), it's baseball, women's lib (used to be just mom), and apple pie (except now it's Starbuck's coffee, pizza and exotic cakes). Justice, the love of liberty and the pursuit of righteousness are all passé in America. Anyone who stands up for such things is either laughed to derision, thought a mad man, or assaulted for his belief (while the crowd stands by and applauds the entertainment).

Consider recent history. We're not talking about a remnant of 10 righteous men in the twin cities of sin any more. During the American civil war thousands of righteous God fearing men and women prayed for victory. Men and women on both sides of the conflict, north and south, prayed for victory. When it was all over President Lincoln himself said that something else had been going on. The war, it seems, was divine judgment upon a debauched nation for the sin of slavery. The entire Southern civilization was destroyed. The northern states suffered changes no less drastic. The industrial age with all its benefits, hazards and pollution began there and we are still paying the penalty for our abuse of the earth today. There were more than 10 Christians in the north and the south, yet God did not hesitate to visit judgment upon them all.

Consider Europe in the mid-20th century. Despite Germany's long history of Christian teaching and leadership a leader arose who visited destruction upon the entire continent. Many Christians lived and prayed and asked God for mercy in Germany in those days, yet God visited judgment upon them all. A church membership card is NOT fire proof. Neither is the existence of apostate churches in America a shield against the reaction of divine righteousness against the horrors we as a nation have participated in.

55 million dead babies in America. God visited His wrath upon those who sacrificed their children to the pagan god Molech. How much more shall He answer America's crime? Today there are more than 20 wars sponsored by the Pentagon. The United States sponsors al-Qaeda, an organization known world wide for its terrorist acts upon innocent men, women and children.(1) Will God excuse violence against innocent people and nations simply because America does it? He has Never excused any other country in all of history. Will God forget His righteousness because America is too big to fall? I think not. International human trafficking (slavery) is on the rise in America once again.(2) If God punished America once before for the sin of slavery despite good Christians living there, will He spare this nation again? I think not.

The list grows longer each day. Prayer and the acknowledgment of God is now illegal in most places in America. Is this something God approves of or something the righteousness of God will punish? The reader is doing himself a disservice if he or she thinks otherwise and especially so if he or she calls themselves a Christian. There is a divine standard clearly stated in the pages of Holy Writ - and America is in violation. Anyone who thinks America will escape judgment simply because we have a pretty flag is dreaming.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
(1) Hillary Clinton admitted this. Sen. John McCain has praised them for their actions against those who opposed American financial hegemony. Obama works with the GCC in providing military support of their terror in Syria.

(2) Former president Jimmy Carter has recently published a book which states that Atlanta is the center for human slavery in America and the world. "A young girl can be bought by a pimp there for one thousand dollars," Carter said. "In Europe the price is six to eight thousand."

 

[newlife]

ChoirLoft, I agree with much of what you are saying. Perhaps we are heading toward Judgment. If God judged his Chosen People for their disobedience why wouldn't He judge us.

 

[michaelvpardo]

The entire world is heading for judgment, the only question is "how soon?" The world economy is on the verge of collapse and when you see someone coming forward with "solutions" for a united world, you can be sure the time is near. According to the scriptures, the millennial kingdom will be an agrarian based economy (and this makes complete sense when you consider that our energy resources will have been nearly completely depleted.)