A little discernment

[Episkopos]

Hi to all,
I think it necessary to do a post on maintaining some discernment when trying to encourage or discourage people in their Christian walk.

What normally happens is that there is NO discerning between the inner man and outer man of a person so that either a person is encouraged as a whole...or discouraged as a whole.

But nobody is that whole...at least not until one is mature in Christ. So then discernment is necessary to encourage the right part of us and discourage the wrong part.

Each of us is a duality of an inner man and an outer man. The inner man is created in God's image. The outer man is based on survival in a hostile world that is not covered by God. Our survival (carnal) mechanisms are in the outer man. That's why attacking an entire person is likely to be met with a defensive attitude. Rather we are to appeal to the inner man of a person. Speaking the truth in love. We are to speak to another's inner man from OUR inner man. If the person chooses to defend himself by relying on the flesh...then that is on them.

We are NOT to know others based on the flesh. We are to appeal to their inward man. Only those who are also living from their inward man will respond in kind. That is how we know who is of God and who is still serving their own carnal natures.

 

[Pearl]

1 Thessalonians 5:10-12
He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. Therefore encourage one another and build each other up,

Now what sort of discernment does that take?

 

[Episkopos]

God sees us a garden. Now, a garden has as many weeds as proper plants. If we just water a garden without also taking out the weeds...then the weeds will choke out the plants because they grow faster. Lies have a way of taking over the garden unless they are properly identified. So then what part of people do we want to edify? All of us? If so then we are likely to be encouraging the wrong part of us. The carnal mind resists the truth in favour of what SOUNDS good to it. So then the truth will appear harsh as long as we remain unbroken in the carnal outer man (the weed part of us). That is why the narrow way is difficult. We want love to sound good to our ears. But the pill must first be bitter before it becomes sweet. To encourage without discernment makes the pill sweet at first but ultimately bitter.

So which is better? Wisdom does not seek an instant gratification. But the flesh does.
We are not to build again what the Lord has torn down. God is only looking for fellowship with the inner man...not with who we think we are in our whole person. God does not respect our "person"...or what we present to the world. The truth goes deeper than that...or it isn't the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

1 Thessalonians 5:10-12
He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him. Therefore encourage one another and build each other up,

Now what sort of discernment does that take?

It takes an understanding of what part of us is able to live together with the Lord and with His people. Look at the state of the church...where every carnal consideration is being met. Now why doesn't the modern church look like the early church? The difference is the love of the flesh and the world. if we had a LITTLE discernment we would see that the flesh goes against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh. We can't abide both....one must win over the other.

This thread is to ACTUALLY encourage the inner man towards God...AND...discourage the flesh from making false claims of acceptance with God. God will cut away the flesh by the power of the cross when we fully surrender to Him.

I encourage everyone to have no more confidence in the flesh or their own understanding. The mind of Christ is self-less. we need to stop thinking as regular humans and adopt the sacrificial nature of the mind of Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

Our carnal nature with its selfish reasoning (self-love) is our living sacrifice to God. Our animal nature is our animal sacrifice. Does our carnal nature die at the cross. Well, yes and no. We are dead in Christ when the power of the flesh is disconnected from us to free us to be holy in relationship with God. But that living sacrifice can crawl off the altar (if it was ever there in the first place).

Modern doctrines molly-coddle the flesh to get more people in the pews. Should we sacrifice ourselves for a church system that is based on a false promise of salvation? What is our standard? Numbers? Financial gains? Or depths of knowing God?

If we want to advance in the Lord we need to deny ourselves...not let ourselves be molly-coddled. We will reap as we have sown. If we sow to the flesh (even a religious flesh) then we will reap corruption.

if we sow to the Spirit and truth, then we will reap eternal life and power over sin, the devil and the world.

 

[Pearl]

I encourage everyone to have no more confidence in the flesh or their own understanding. The mind of Christ is self-less. we need to stop thinking as regular humans and adopt the sacrificial nature of the mind of Christ.

But that is exactly why we need to encourage each other. Being negative is counter-productive to the Christian way of life.

 

[Episkopos]

But that is exactly why we need to encourage each other. Being negative is counter-productive to the Christian way of life.

That's only half true. We need to be encouraged in the ways of God and discouraged in our own way of thinking. We are NOT God. So then when we trust ourselves we are NOT trusting God. To think that we actually know something needs to be discouraged!

We need to encourage each other to let God kill (take away the power of) our outer man on His cross. We need the cross of Christ to free us from the bondage of our selfish and sinful carnal nature. To an uncrucified believer (the vast majority in our time) that is going to sound negative. But it is actually an ETERNAL positive. The ways of the kingdom of God appear upside down to us in our carnal framework.

 

[ChristisGod]

Our carnal nature with its selfish reasoning (self-love) is our living sacrifice to God. Our animal nature is our animal sacrifice. Does our carnal nature die at the cross. Well, yes and no. We are dead in Christ when the power of the flesh is disconnected from us to free us to be holy in relationship with God. But that living sacrifice can crawl off the altar (if it was ever there in the first place).

Modern doctrines molly-coddle the flesh to get more people in the pews. Should we sacrifice ourselves for a church system that is based on a false promise of salvation? What is our standard? Numbers? Financial gains? Or depths of knowing God?

If we want to advance in the Lord we need to deny ourselves...not let ourselves be molly-coddled. We will reap as we have sown. If we sow to the flesh (even a religious flesh) then we will reap corruption.

if we sow to the Spirit and truth, then we will reap eternal life and power over sin, the devil and the world.

I believe the number 1 problem in the church is a basic and fundamental one. The great commission- go and make disciples teaching them to obey all I have commanded.

Jesus and the Apostles modeled what a disciple-maker was and is. You cannot make disciples by seeing them for an hour each week or twice a week. You do life together with them like Jesus did with His disciples on a daily basis. Its a mentoring situation where you spend time with them just like parents do raising their kids. You are modeling it before them doing life together. The Apostles did that as well. That is why the church was effective then and not now. They knew the cost that was assoaciated with being a disciple. Take up your cross ( be willing to die ) daily and follow Me said Jesus

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I believe the number 1 problem in the church is a basic and fundamental one. The great commission- go and make disciples teaching them to obey all I have commanded.

Can't argue with that...

 

[Episkopos]

I believe the number 1 problem in the church is a basic and fundamental one. The great commission- go and make disciples teaching them to obey all I have commanded.

Jesus and the Apostles modeled what a disciple-maker was and is. You cannot make disciples by seeing them for an hour each week or twice a week. You do life together with them like Jesus did with His disciples on a daily basis. Its a mentoring situation where you spend time with them just like parents do raising their kids. You are modeling it before them doing life together. The Apostles did that as well. That is why the church was effective then and not now. They knew the cost that was assoaciated with being a disciple. Take up your cross ( be willing to die ) daily and follow Me said Jesus

Disciples make disciples. What the church lacks are actual disciples. There is no bringing people into a life unless that life is being lived in. The whole tenor of the modern gospel is in cross avoidance. People are being told what they can get for free. without any sacrifice. It is no wonder then that there are no actual examples to follow. Unless we think an example of how easy it is to claim salvation without any kind of real life or walk to prove it?

 

[ChristisGod]

Disciples make disciples. What the church lacks are actual disciples. There is no bringing people into a life unless that life is being lived in. The whole tenor of the modern gospel is in cross avoidance. People are being told what they can get for free. without any sacrifice. It is no wonder then that there are no actual examples to follow. Unless we think an example of how easy it is to claim salvation without any kind of real life or walk to prove it?

Agreed one must be one to make one but even the ones who are do not want to make or take the time in our culture to make disciples. The cost and commitment is to overwhelming for most. I'm getting ready to lead a group of elders on a 2 year study on making disciples but they will see what it takes to count the cost.

 

[amadeus]

It takes an understanding of what part of us is able to live together with the Lord and with His people. Look at the state of the church...where every carnal consideration is being met. Now why doesn't the modern church look like the early church? The difference is the love of the flesh and the world. if we had a LITTLE discernment we would see that the flesh goes against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh. We can't abide both....one must win over the other.

This thread is to ACTUALLY encourage the inner man towards God...AND...discourage the flesh from making false claims of acceptance with God. God will cut away the flesh by the power of the cross when we fully surrender to Him.

I encourage everyone to have no more confidence in the flesh or their own understanding. The mind of Christ is self-less. we need to stop thinking as regular humans and adopt the sacrificial nature of the mind of Christ.

Kill the old man and nourish the new inner man properly!

Many people, believers perhaps in a measure, deny or do not recognize that the old man still exists as a threat to them. He had the dominion over them once before they met Jesus and received the Holy Spirit.

That old man and his ways cannot defeat God, but we, when we quench the Spirit of God, are defeated when we try to fight the battle alone.

Our eyes to see, our ears to hear... when the Holy Spirit within us is not being quenched... allow us to discern properly and walked as Jesus walks. Not many church settings allow much of that, although they might deny it... They teach people with their established programs, rules and elevated positions [by men rather than God] to quench the Holy Spirit.

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God" Rom 6:6-10

Has our old man been crucified with Him? If not, why not?

Has our body of sin been destroyed? If not, why not?

What kind of fruit are we bearing?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I believe the number 1 problem in the church is a basic and fundamental one. The great commission- go and make disciples teaching them to obey All I have commanded.

Disciples make disciples. What the church lacks are actual disciples.

So, since we are to "test All things," a few questions about the so-called "great
commission," ok? Where are the actual disciples, who have obeyed ALL of the
following, the All that Jesus Commanded? So THEY "can teach" the rest of us to:

Sell everything?:

a) "...O ye of little faith..." (verse 28):

"...Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you
the kingdom. Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags
which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no
thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth." (Luke 12:32-33 compare:
Mat_19:21; Mar_10:21; Luk_18:22)
​

b) obedience To Christ's Command "carried out," Correct?:

Act 2:45 "And sold their possessions and goods, and
parted them to all men, as every man had need."

Act 4:34 "Neither was there any among them that lacked:
for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold
them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and
distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."
​

c) Consequences for disobedience of All Jesus Commanded?:

"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a
possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy
to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to
The Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold,
was it not in thine own power?

Why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied
unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down,
and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard
these things.

And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out,
and buried him. And it was about the space of three hours
after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so
much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How
is it that ye have agreed together to tempt The Spirit of The LORD?
Behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the
door, and shall carry thee out.

Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost:
and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her
forth, buried her by her husband. And great fear came upon all the
church, and upon as many as heard these things." (Acts_5:1-11)
​

Where are the actual disciples who have "obeyed Jesus loving Him,"
and can teach us? Other commands are "doing greater works, healing
the sick, raising the dead, obeying Moses law, etc, etc, etc..."

Actual disciples doing All these? Where are they?

Or do we have to "study Scriptures" prayerfully and Carefully, and Find
A Biblical Answer to disobedience (picking and choosing Confusion) of
All the above?

GRACE And Peace...

 

[ScottA]

Hi to all,
I think it necessary to do a post on maintaining some discernment when trying to encourage or discourage people in their Christian walk.

What normally happens is that there is NO discerning between the inner man and outer man of a person so that either a person is encouraged as a whole...or discouraged as a whole.

But nobody is that whole...at least not until one is mature in Christ. So then discernment is necessary to encourage the right part of us and discourage the wrong part.

Each of us is a duality of an inner man and an outer man. The inner man is created in God's image. The outer man is based on survival in a hostile world that is not covered by God. Our survival (carnal) mechanisms are in the outer man. That's why attacking an entire person is likely to be met with a defensive attitude. Rather we are to appeal to the inner man of a person. Speaking the truth in love. We are to speak to another's inner man from OUR inner man. If the person chooses to defend himself by relying on the flesh...then that is on them.

We are NOT to know others based on the flesh. We are to appeal to their inward man. Only those who are also living from their inward man will respond in kind. That is how we know who is of God and who is still serving their own carnal natures.

Yes, this is true, and yet God has placed us in an evil world where the whole armor of God is also good counsel.

But I get your point--if we hope to reach the inner man...it is better to appeal to that man, rather than to that man we see face to face which is only passing away.

Applause!

 

[Episkopos]

So, since we are to "test All things," a few questions about the so-called "great
commission," ok? Where are the actual disciples, who have obeyed ALL of the
following, the All that Jesus Commanded? So THEY "can teach" the rest of us to:

Sell everything?:

a) "...O ye of little faith..." (verse 28):

"...Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you
the kingdom. Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags
which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no
thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth." (Luke 12:32-33 compare:
Mat_19:21; Mar_10:21; Luk_18:22)
​

b) obedience To Christ's Command "carried out," Correct?:

Act 2:45 "And sold their possessions and goods, and
parted them to all men, as every man had need."

Act 4:34 "Neither was there any among them that lacked:
for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold
them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and
distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."
​

c) Consequences for disobedience of All Jesus Commanded?:

"But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a
possession, And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy
to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to
The Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold,
was it not in thine own power?

Why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied
unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down,
and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard
these things.

And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out,
and buried him. And it was about the space of three hours
after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.

And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so
much? And she said, Yea, for so much. Then Peter said unto her, How
is it that ye have agreed together to tempt The Spirit of The LORD?
Behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the
door, and shall carry thee out.

Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost:
and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her
forth, buried her by her husband. And great fear came upon all the
church, and upon as many as heard these things." (Acts_5:1-11)
​

Where are the actual disciples who have "obeyed Jesus loving Him,"
and can teach us? Other commands are "doing greater works, healing
the sick, raising the dead, obeying Moses law, etc, etc, etc..."

Actual disciples doing All these? Where are they?

Or do we have to "study Scriptures" prayerfully and Carefully, and Find
A Biblical Answer to disobedience (picking and choosing Confusion) of
All the above?

GRACE And Peace...

Today the saints are scattered throughout the world. The nets that are cast gather in believers....but not for the sake of growth in Christ-likeness. Today believers want to be the "saved" of the world but not the "light" of the world. Shallow conversions and misleading doctrines have filled the pews. But numbers and quantity does not equate quality.

So what's stopping people from knowing this and still seeking the Lord?

I'm still waiting for some good answers...

 

[Truman]

Today the saints are scattered throughout the world. The nets that are cast gather in believers....but not for the sake of growth in Christ-likeness. Today believers want to be the "saved" of the world but not the "light" of the world. Shallow conversions and misleading doctrines have filled the pews. But numbers and quantity does not equate quality.

So what's stopping people from knowing this and still seeking the Lord?

I'm still waiting for some good answers...

Wanting my best life now?

 

[Philip James]

. So then what part of people do we want to edify? All of us?

Hello Episkopos,

Yes indeed!

for building up the body of Christ,

until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Philip James]

Our animal nature is our animal sacrifice

I dont know about you, but I offer no animal sacrfices..

Rather, I offer that which the Father in His goodness has provided.. That which my brothers and sisters have offered for 2000 years..

The Lamb that once was slain, and now lives forever! (malachi 1:11)

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Philip James]

What is our standard?

Are we willing to serve the least of our brothers?

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Philip James]

Disciples make disciples. What the church lacks are actual disciples. There is no bringing people into a life unless that life is being lived in. The whole tenor of the modern gospel is in cross avoidance. People are being told what they can get for free. without any sacrifice. It is no wonder then that there are no actual examples to follow. Unless we think an example of how easy it is to claim salvation without any kind of real life or walk to prove it?

Careful now, you're sounding very Orthodox and Catholic

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!