A Little Season

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rwb

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This thread is not about a future return of Christ. We are discussing here the statements made by Christ and His Apostles that His return was imminent, and the likelihood that His imminent return already took place in 70AD.

If you are a dispensationalist, futurist, or especially an amillennialist, there are many other threads where you can discuss your ideas, I'm quite familiar with your eschatology and have no interest in debate. Obviously, I cannot prevent you from attempting to hijack this thread, but I respectfully request that you choose not to do so.

One point for you to dwell on for now! If the return of Jesus was imminent in the first century AD how does 40 years later fit? For that matter how does almost 2,000 years later fit?

Revelation 22:7 (KJV) Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Revelation 22:10 (KJV) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Revelation 22:12 (KJV) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Revelation 22:20 (KJV) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
 

Scott Downey

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This thread is not about a future return of Christ. We are discussing here the statements made by Christ and His Apostles that His return was imminent, and the likelihood that His imminent return already took place in 70AD.

If you are a dispensationalist, futurist, or especially an amillennialist, there are many other threads where you can discuss your ideas, I'm quite familiar with your eschatology and have no interest in debate. Obviously, I cannot prevent you from attempting to hijack this thread, but I respectfully request that you choose not to do so.
When you posted here, you opened yourself to being questioned.

This is an open forum, you have no control over what people post, or question you about.
 

Archie

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Your welcome Archie. I wonder if the doctrine of Preterism would exist if not for outside historical record written especially by the unbelieving Jewish Historian Josephus?

It is my intention to reply to other verses the Preterit uses to inform their doctrine after Church this afternoon. One of the things I really want to address is "this generation."

Much love, and peace to you as well.
Josephus was not a believer, correct. But I'm not sure how that has any bearing on the validity of his observations. I am unaware how much history you have studied, or mathematics etc, am I to presume by your statement that you consider any/all information provided by unbelievers as untrustworthy? Or only when it contradicts your own personal observations and conclusions?

Additionally, I would prefer to continue this discussion minus the various labels ascribed to our positions.

I know that I have previously stated that I have no interest in debating with futurists or amilennialists, but I am willing to make an exception in your case as you seem able to do so without condescension, and for some reason I trust your sincerity.

But I don't care much for the labels.
I'm not a preterist. I'm a disciple of Christ. I hold His words in the highest esteem, and when He says something, I trust that He not only meant what He said, but that He knew what He was talking about.
 

Archie

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One point for you to dwell on for now! If the return of Jesus was imminent in the first century AD how does 40 years later fit? For that matter how does almost 2,000 years later fit?

Revelation 22:7 (KJV) Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Revelation 22:10 (KJV) And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Revelation 22:12 (KJV) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Revelation 22:20 (KJV) He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Are you suggesting that His return was not imminent, as He and all the Apostles clearly taught that it was.

40 years is not a long time in the grand scheme of things, and fits perfectly with His numerous other statements concerning "this generation". 2000 years however, if one trusts that number, which I do not, is a very long time, and directly contradicts the words of Jesus Christ addressed to His audience in Judea, and His words given to John for the 7 churches.
 

Archie

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When you posted here, you opened yourself to being questioned.

This is an open forum, you have no control over what people post, or question you about.
Which is exactly what I said, and why I respectfully requested that you do not attempt to hijack the thread. You can post whatever you like, and debate until your hearts content, it just won't be with me.
 

Scott Downey

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Which is exactly what I said, and why I respectfully requested that you do not attempt to hijack the thread. You can post whatever you like, and debate until your hearts content, it just won't be with me.
Since you don't want a real discussion of your suppositions, then what's the point of your thread? This is a discussion forum. You should move it to some kind of testimonial forum.
 
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Archie

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Since you don't want a real discussion of your suppositions, then what's the point of your thread? This is a discussion forum. You should move it to some kind of testimonial forum.
I'm familiar with your content. It is not in any way apparent that you are open to discussion. I don't have time to waste in endless debate with someone who has already decided that their views come straight from the throne of God Himself and are therefore beyond dispute.
 

Scott Downey

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I'm familiar with your content. It is not in any way apparent that you are open to discussion. I don't have time to waste in endless debate with someone who has already decided that their views come straight from the throne of God Himself and are therefore beyond dispute.
I never tell any one responding to my threads or comments to SHUT UP, like you have
I typically ignore what they say after a while. But I am not immediately crude and rude like yourself.
 
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Archie

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I never tell any one responding to my threads or comments to SHUT UP, like you have
I typically ignore what they say after a while. But I am not immediately crude and rude like yourself.
I have neither been rude or crude, quite the opposite in fact, I made a respectful request and clearly stated my reasons for doing so.

You are free to post post post away in my Little Season thread, and if anyone else cares to engage with you, more power to them. But as I already said, it won't be me.

I'm not the least bit upset with you,
I just don't want to waste anymore time on you.
 

Scott Downey

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According to preterism, all prophecy in the Bible is really history. The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of first-century conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning “past.” Thus, preterism is the view that the biblical prophecies concerning the “end times” have already been fulfilled—in the past. Preterism is directly opposed to futurism, which sees the end-times prophecies as having a still-future fulfillment.

Preterism is divided into two types: full (or consistent) preterism and partial preterism. This article will confine the discussion to full preterism (or hyper-preterism, as some call it).

Preterism denies the future prophetic quality of the book of Revelation. The preterist movement essentially teaches that all the end-times prophecies of the New Testament were fulfilled in AD 70 when the Romans attacked and destroyed Jerusalem. Preterism teaches that every event normally associated with the end times—Christ’s second coming, the tribulation, the resurrection of the dead, the final judgment—has already happened. (In the case of the final judgment, it still is in the process of being fulfilled.) Jesus’ return to earth was a “spiritual” return, not a physical one.

Preterism teaches that the Law was fulfilled in AD 70 and God’s covenant with Israel was ended. The “new heavens and new earth” spoken of in Revelation 21:1 is, to the preterist, a description of the world under the New Covenant. Just as a Christian is made a “new creation” (2 Corinthians 5:17), so the world under the New Covenant is a “new earth.” This aspect of preterism can easily lead to a belief in replacement theology.

Preterists usually point to a passage in Jesus’ Olivet Discourse to bolster their argument. After Jesus describes some of the end-times happenings, He says, “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” (Matthew 24:34). The preterist takes this to mean that everything Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24 had to have occurred within one generation of His speaking—the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was therefore “Judgment Day.”

The problems with preterism are many. For one thing, God’s covenant with Israel is everlasting (Jeremiah 31:35–37), and there will be a future restoration of Israel (Isaiah 11:12). The apostle Paul warned against those who, like Hymenaeus and Philetus, teach falsely “that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some” (2 Timothy 2:17–18). And Jesus’ mention of “this generation” should be taken to mean the generation that is alive to see the beginning of the events described in Matthew 24.

Eschatology is a complex subject, and the Bible’s use of apocalyptic imagery to relate many prophecies has led to a variety of interpretations of end-time events. There is room for some disagreement within Christianity regarding these things. However, full preterism has some serious flaws in that it denies the physical reality of Christ’s second coming and downplays the dreadful nature of the tribulation by restricting that event to the fall of Jerusalem.



I liken the doctrine to this here, that Paul warned about.


14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to [d]strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and [e]idle babblings, for they will [f]increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of [g]Christ depart from iniquity.”

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, [h]sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
 

David in NJ

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My fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. Greetings, may mercy, grace and peace be ever upon you.

I've known the Lord Jesus for 35 years, He is my Life and my Love.
I was raised Southern Baptist and was instructed in the futurist view of eschatology since as far back as I can remember. Around the time the Spirit of Christ came into my heart, before or after I cannot be certain, I came to the understanding that at least some of what I had been taught was in error, particularly the pre-trib rapture.

Over the course of my Christian walk I never gave it much more thought. Prophecy was never my thing, but I rather preferred to spend my time in the word focusing on how to live the Christian life. Which by no means should imply that I have ever done so perfectly.

I'm much older now, and having grown much closer to Christ in my later years, have begun to look more deeply into those things which previously held little interest for me.

One of those things is eschatology. When surfing the forums and interacting with other believers, it has occurred to me that of all the views put forth from the various camps, there seem to be only four major schools of thought, and the arguments between the adherents of each particular view are endless.

Conspicuously absent from any discussion of eschatology is the idea that we may actually be in the Little Season.

As I said, I never had much interest in end times prophecies or projections, much less debate on what I see as peripheral issues. So when I did begin to look into these things more deeply, I was not coming from a place of any preconceived notions, inherent bias, or theological indoctrinations.
This provided me with the capacity to evaluate the texts with clear eyes and a fresh perspective

For the sake of total transparency, I am completely opposed to any eschatological framework that has its roots in dispensational theology, as I am absolutely convinced that so called christian Zionism is the prime source of much of the evil that presently plagues our world, and perhaps the very last days deception that the scriptures warn about, at the least, it plays a significant role.

Neither at this time am I open to any discussion of the amillenial view, as I am not inclined to argue over the plainly stated words of Holy Scriptures.

"And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

If that angers or offends some of you, so be it, I make no concessions and will offer no apologies. I do hope that you may still accept me as your brother in Christ, but whichever path you take, that of love or condemnation, please know that I love you all very much, and you are ever in my prayers.

Below is the best explanation I have found thus far of what it is that my several years of deeper study have led me to conclude about the time in which we now live. And yet, I must admit, it is by no means a comprehensive treatment of the subject matter, nor could it ever be, since if it is in fact the correct view, the level of deception in which we now find ourselves makes absolute certainty an utter impossibility.
Nevertheless, it is the best explanation in regards to the available evidence, and the one that places the clearly spoken words of scripture in the clearest possible light. If one can permit themselves to view the words of Christ and His Apostles honestly, absent the filter of various preloaded belief systems, the truth should present itself with crystal clarity. I know that's a big IF, but its worth a try.

The first video makes the scriptural case for Little Season Eschatology. The second presents a well researched timeline in support of the conclusions made in video one.

If this thread gains any traction at all, it is sure to be a contentious conversation. My sincere hope and prayer is that we can treat one another with the love and respect that should be the norm for all who name the name of Christ.

Enough said. I leave this here for your prayerful consideration.




OK - Found it - ty

Since the videos are long i must set aside time and when i do i will respond - thank you
 
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David in NJ

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How do you know it hasn't happened?

How would you know if it had?

The phrase "The Great Tribulation" is not in the bible, Christ spoke of great tribulation, the "The" was added later to support various other end time scenarios, its not in the text.
You know our spirits are knit together in Christ.
Also, i am not part of nor follow any denomination, including non-denominational.

i always test every thing i hear from Scripture = here is just two to look at

Daniel 12:1-4
At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

2And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever and ever.
4But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.

John 6:35-40
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

If just these two scriptures are denied in either of those videos(i have not watched yet) then there is adjustment that needs to be made.

LOVE you my Brother in Christ
 
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WPM

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You seem quite certain about these things.

You do realize that many early church fathers held a much different view? And they were much closer to the events in question. Your interpretation of events is a rather modern one.

When Jesus plainly stated "Behold I come quickly" was He just pulling our leg?
Thank you for your honest and open testimony. I can relate to it a lot. I was brought up Pretrib Premil. I am now Amil. I got there through deep biblical study.

While I agree with Partial Preterists in many things, i also disagree with them on other matters. I feel they are the reverse extreme of the Futurism. I totally reject their fixation with AD70 and the coming of Titus. I feel they have threw the baby out with the bathwater. I believe both of these positions have truth and both of these positions have error. I believe Christ's first advent (and particularly the first resurrection of Jesus) ushered in Rev 20. I do believe that we are now in Satan's little season at the end before the one final future coming of Christ.

Preterists make much of phrases like "soon," “at hand,” “quickly,” “shortly” or “near.” They use these to support their belief that Jesus has already come, the last day has already occurred and that we are now living in the new heavens and new earth.

The mistake they make is that they always interpret these from man’s standpoint and thus get confused as to their meaning. Of course, from man’s outlook these terms would normally suggest that something is just around the corner. But such terms are totally relative. We should always remember, the Bible speaks in God’s time. God’s near, quickly or shortly are completely different from man’s perspective. God’s soon is not always our soon. Our knowledge of biblical truth, our awareness of the context in question, a study of the meaning and usage of the original Greek words, and our ascertaining whether something is being explained from man’s finite viewpoint or God’s eternal perspective, aid us in understanding the time and event in view.

On this matter, a basic understanding of “time” and “eternity” will explain what we are looking at in Scripture. The phrase “at hand” or “near” is taken from the single Greek word eggizō, and simply means “approaches.” It is not time-specific. It can mean immediate or distant future, like our English word. In fact, it carries the exact same sense as our English word. It all depends upon the setting and the context in view. It carries a broad meaning and does not in any way demand an imminent fulfilment. Other words like “quickly,” “shortly” and “near,” express time from God’s eternal standpoint, not man’s natural position. What Preterists conveniently overlook is that "near" to God is not near to us; "far" to us is not far to God.

It is therefore wrong to force our dim earthly sense of time upon God. It is definitely foolish to build a whole theology upon that.

Does the Bible contradict itself? Why in places in the New Testament does it present the coming of the Lord as “at hand,” “near” or coming “quickly” or “shortly” while in other places it is presented as “after a long time”? In fact, the duration of the intra-Advent period is so long that the religious cynics mock the reality and realization of the second coming. Jesus details their contempt in Matthew 24:48: My lord delayeth his coming.”

These fools arrive at this foolish conclusion because of the protracted wait between the Lord's 2 Advents. We are still in that long period in-between. Preterists foolishly mock the blessed hope held by sincere Christians in regards to the Lord's literal physical visible return for His people.

Jesus continues in Mark 13:35–37: “Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”

Christ’s coming again will come “suddenly” (Gr. exaiphnēs), quickly, unexpectedly or without delay to those who are not looking for this climactic event.

Jesus said in the other parallel passage in Luke 19:15: “And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.”

We haven’t seen the reward of the righteous and the reward of the wicked yet. This is a picture of Judgment Day. Jesus says of the hypocrite in Luke 19:23, 26-27: “Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? … For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”

Christ is currently king. He is still reigning over His people. He is still reigning over His enemies. All power and authority has been given unto Him in heaven and on earth. That did not terminate in AD70. He has not yet returned in majesty and power to rescue His elect, destroy the wicked and remove all the bondage of corruption.

What is more, we are constantly exhorted through the teaching of Christ and the New Testament writers to “watch” and be “ready” for Jesus’ climatic return when He will raise and judge mankind. It is only then where mankind will be apportioned their just and final reward. If He had already returned then what have we to prepare for and watch?

Revelation 20:1-5 teaches: "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

A thousand years is simply a simile for a long period of time. The figure "a thousand" is used repeatedly in Scripture to mean a long period of time or a large amount. Revelation is saturated in figurative language and symbolic numerology. This same sense can be found in the usage of “one hour” in Revelation 17:12 where the beast is said to reign with the “ten kings” “one hour.” Is this describing a literal sixty minutes period? Of course not! It is a figurative phrase, as is the "one thousand" period. It means a short period of time. This is the complete anthesis of "a thousand" which describes a prolonged period of time.

We should note in this passage, the enlightening of the Gentiles (or) ethnos is carefully connected to the first resurrection of Christ. It is only through this powerful event that the deception that smothered the Gentiles was lifted. Moreover, the binding of Satan is expressly connected to the enlightenment of the Gentiles (or) ethnos. The general broad deception that engulfed the Gentiles in ignorance and darkness is lifted. They now can receive if they believe. That does not suggest the majority will.

Revelation 20 finishes at the coming of Christ and the one-and-only general resurrection/judgment of all mankind.

This all negates the Preterist paradigm that is fixated with the coming of Titus in AD70. Preterists find themselves in the camp of the scoffers mocking the reality of, and the supposed delay in, the glorious climactic return of Christ.
 
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WPM

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You know our spirits are knit together in Christ.
Also, i am not part of nor follow any denomination, including non-denominational.

i always test every thing i hear from Scripture = here is just two to look at

Daniel 12:1-4
At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

2And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever and ever.
4But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.

John 6:35-40
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

If just these two scriptures are denied in either of those videos(i have not watched yet) then there is adjustment that needs to be made.

LOVE you my Brother in Christ
When is the "last (or final) day"?
 

WPM

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This thread is not about a future return of Christ. We are discussing here the statements made by Christ and His Apostles that His return was imminent, and the likelihood that His imminent return already took place in 70AD.

If you are a dispensationalist, futurist, or especially an amillennialist, there are many other threads where you can discuss your ideas, I'm quite familiar with your eschatology and have no interest in debate. Obviously, I cannot prevent you from attempting to hijack this thread, but I respectfully request that you choose not to do so.
To be fair, he was taking verses that Preterists wrong apply to AD70, which really apply to a future second coming, and showing you why. That is hardly derailing.
 

ewq1938

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I don't want to embarrass you,
but do you know when Jesus said "Behold I come quickly"?
Who He was speaking to?
You don't sound very well versed on this topic. But you have very strong opinions.

Post again but remove the foolish insults.
 

ewq1938

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This thread is not about a future return of Christ. We are discussing here the statements made by Christ and His Apostles that His return was imminent, and the likelihood that His imminent return already took place in 70AD.

40 years is not "imminent".
 

rwb

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Josephus was not a believer, correct. But I'm not sure how that has any bearing on the validity of his observations. I am unaware how much history you have studied, or mathematics etc, am I to presume by your statement that you consider any/all information provided by unbelievers as untrustworthy? Or only when it contradicts your own personal observations and conclusions?

Additionally, I would prefer to continue this discussion minus the various labels ascribed to our positions.

I know that I have previously stated that I have no interest in debating with futurists or amilennialists, but I am willing to make an exception in your case as you seem able to do so without condescension, and for some reason I trust your sincerity.

But I don't care much for the labels.
I'm not a preterist. I'm a disciple of Christ. I hold His words in the highest esteem, and when He says something, I trust that He not only meant what He said, but that He knew what He was talking about.

Sorry Archie, I guess I should have spoken a little more clearly here. I have nothing against the historical writings of Flavius Josephus, he seems to be well received, giving a notable, though sometimes questionable accounting of the "Antiquities of the Jews". Many consider his work to be a vital source for the history of the intertestamental period and the Jewish war against Rome.

The problem for me arises when doctrines are established and built from outside sources. Since Preterit doctrine is dependent upon outside sources rather than the Word of God, I find the doctrine to be suspect. You may not call yourself a Preterit but that is the doctrine the videos promote and defend. I agree that we absolutely must hold the Word(s) of Christ in the highest esteem, and believe He says what He means, and means what He says. I really don't mean to be offensive or condescending in my replies, but I am very passionate about finding truth from the one source that is all truth: the Bible.
 

Archie

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You know our spirits are knit together in Christ.
Also, i am not part of nor follow any denomination, including non-denominational.

i always test every thing i hear from Scripture = here is just two to look at

Daniel 12:1-4
At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

2And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever and ever.
4But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam to and fro, and knowledge will increase.

John 6:35-40
And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

If just these two scriptures are denied in either of those videos(i have not watched yet) then there is adjustment that needs to be made.

LOVE you my Brother in Christ
Love you to Brother, glad you stopped by the thread. Looking forward to your input.
 
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