A Little Season

[David in NJ]

• The Bible teaches us: just as there was a connection between the fall of man and the fall of creation so there will be a correlation between the glorification of man and the glorification of creation.

i am having a cup of soup before retiring and i stopped in and LOVE this Truth

Please remind me of this when we again talk - ty

 

[WPM]

I know the last trumpet verses, but are there any specific last day verses other than " I will raise him up at the last day"? Thats the only one I can think off the top?

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

The plain focus of this teaching in Luke 17 (reference Noah and Lot’s day) is the nature and degree of the judgment that befell the wicked in these two familiar Old Testament stories and especially the extent of that particular wrath. The key element and major emphasis of this discourse is the fact (speaking of the ungodly) that God “destroyed them all.” The comprehensive destruction of the wicked in both of these examples is the important lesson of the narrative; both the whole world of Noah’s day and the whole individual city of Sodom in Lot’s day saw the immediate and complete rescue of the entire righteous coupled together with the immediate and complete destruction of the entire wicked.

After speaking of the “days of Noe” and the “days of Lot,” the Lord then explains of a singular “day” when the righteous were rescued and the wicked were destroyed. Whilst the Lord presents the rebellion and debauchery that preceded both of these judgments as a sign of how things will exist prior to the day of His all-consummating appearing, the main focus of His teaching relates to the focus and scale of the wrath which did fall on these two solemn days of destruction and how they accurately reflect what will happen at the second coming. Both individually and jointly, they supply us with a stunning insight into the nature of the actual day that Christ’s returns and to the days that precede His glorious second coming. In their substance and importance these two Old Testament days are distinct and unique. And whilst the nature of the judgment and geographical extent of both appreciably varies, brought-together, they graphically represent (1) the type of catastrophe coming, and (2) the scale of the destruction at the end. Scripture nowhere separates in time the gathering of the Lord's people to Himself with the destruction of the wicked.

 

[David in NJ]

My fellow brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. Greetings, may mercy, grace and peace be ever upon you.

I've known the Lord Jesus for 35 years, He is my Life and my Love.
I was raised Southern Baptist and was instructed in the futurist view of eschatology since as far back as I can remember. Around the time the Spirit of Christ came into my heart, before or after I cannot be certain, I came to the understanding that at least some of what I had been taught was in error, particularly the pre-trib rapture.

Over the course of my Christian walk I never gave it much more thought. Prophecy was never my thing, but I rather preferred to spend my time in the word focusing on how to live the Christian life. Which by no means should imply that I have ever done so perfectly.

I'm much older now, and having grown much closer to Christ in my later years, have begun to look more deeply into those things which previously held little interest for me.

One of those things is eschatology. When surfing the forums and interacting with other believers, it has occurred to me that of all the views put forth from the various camps, there seem to be only four major schools of thought, and the arguments between the adherents of each particular view are endless.

Conspicuously absent from any discussion of eschatology is the idea that we may actually be in the Little Season.

As I said, I never had much interest in end times prophecies or projections, much less debate on what I see as peripheral issues. So when I did begin to look into these things more deeply, I was not coming from a place of any preconceived notions, inherent bias, or theological indoctrinations.
This provided me with the capacity to evaluate the texts with clear eyes and a fresh perspective

For the sake of total transparency, I am completely opposed to any eschatological framework that has its roots in dispensational theology, as I am absolutely convinced that so called christian Zionism is the prime source of much of the evil that presently plagues our world, and perhaps the very last days deception that the scriptures warn about, at the least, it plays a significant role.

Neither at this time am I open to any discussion of the amillenial view, as I am not inclined to argue over the plainly stated words of Holy Scriptures.

"And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

If that angers or offends some of you, so be it, I make no concessions and will offer no apologies. I do hope that you may still accept me as your brother in Christ, but whichever path you take, that of love or condemnation, please know that I love you all very much, and you are ever in my prayers.

Below is the best explanation I have found thus far of what it is that my several years of deeper study have led me to conclude about the time in which we now live. And yet, I must admit, it is by no means a comprehensive treatment of the subject matter, nor could it ever be, since if it is in fact the correct view, the level of deception in which we now find ourselves makes absolute certainty an utter impossibility.
Nevertheless, it is the best explanation in regards to the available evidence, and the one that places the clearly spoken words of scripture in the clearest possible light. If one can permit themselves to view the words of Christ and His Apostles honestly, absent the filter of various preloaded belief systems, the truth should present itself with crystal clarity. I know that's a big IF, but its worth a try.

The first video makes the scriptural case for Little Season Eschatology. The second presents a well researched timeline in support of the conclusions made in video one.

If this thread gains any traction at all, it is sure to be a contentious conversation. My sincere hope and prayer is that we can treat one another with the love and respect that should be the norm for all who name the name of Christ.

Enough said. I leave this here for your prayerful consideration.

Brother,
1st Falsehood - The opening statement is FALSE Prophecy = "All things Jesus and the apostles spoke have been fulfilled"

2nd Falsehood - He says: "not here to create new prophecy" = which he in fact does

3rd = When did the 1,000 year Reign of Christ BEGIN???

Please answer point #3

Thank you

 

[David in NJ]

• The Bible teaches us: just as there was a connection between the fall of man and the fall of creation so there will be a correlation between the glorification of man and the glorification of creation.

LOVE this - but are you sure?

 

[David in NJ]

Watch the vids bro, he does such a great job with the scripture. And his timeline is all charts and stuff. I could not reproduce them here in the thread. And thanks.

He's also much more humble than me even on my best day.

False prophets often give an appearance of humility = the Catholic Popes are your #1 example of a humble false prophet

 

[Archie]

Brother,
1st Falsehood - The opening statement is FALSE Prophecy = "All things Jesus and the apostles spoke have been fulfilled"

2nd Falsehood - He says: "not here to create new prophecy" = which he in fact does

3rd = When did the 1,000 year Reign of Christ BEGIN???

Please answer point #3

Thank you

Would it have made you feel any better had he used the word "most" instead of "all"?

That is my position.

He is not creating anything new David. He's simply reading statements that were clearly made by Christ and His Apostles and choosing to believe them, rather than spiritualizing them or twisting them to fit into some preloaded theological framework.

To your question #3

I cannot say with certainty anymore than you can prove that it has not begun or that it never will.

But for the sake of this discussion, somewhere around the time of the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70AD

 

[David in NJ]

Would it have made you feel any better had he used the word "most" instead of "all"?

That is my position.

He is not creating anything new David. He's simply reading statements that were clearly made by Christ and His Apostles and choosing to believe them, rather than spiritualizing them or twisting them to fit into some preloaded theological framework.

To your question #3

I cannot say with certainty anymore than you can prove that it has not begun or that it never will.

But for the sake of this discussion, somewhere around the time of the destruction of the Jewish Temple in 70AD

My Brother,
Yes, of course their is a HUGE difference between "all that Jesus and the Apostles spoke/prophesied" verses "some"

Question #3 has already been Answered by God for us in His Word = Genesis , Gospel , Apostles , Revelation

 

[Archie]

False prophets often give an appearance of humility = the Catholic Popes are your #1 example of a humble false prophet

Oh dear Lord, you can't be serious.

He's reading the clearly spoken words of YOUR Lord and Savior and His chosen Apostle's, and daring to take them at face value, to actually believe what they said. He, as I myself have also done, has chosen to place a higher value, significantly higher value, upon the actual words of Christ, than whatever interpretations may have been imposed upon the text. That is all.
If you are suggesting that believing Christ meant what He said, said what He meant, and somehow knows the difference between "quickly" and "maybe 2000 years from now", if believing that makes someone a false prophet, then my dear brother, you are just as misguided and unable to see the truth as those you have been dealing with over in the other thread. Respectfully.

 

[David in NJ]

Oh dear Lord, you can't be serious.

He's reading the clearly spoken words of YOUR Lord and Savior and His chosen Apostle's, and daring to take them at face value, to actually believe what they said. He, as I myself have also done, has chosen to place a higher value, significantly higher value, upon the actual words of Christ, than whatever interpretations may have been imposed upon the text. That is all.
If you are suggesting that believing Christ meant what He said, said what He meant, and somehow knows the difference between "quickly" and "maybe 2000 years from now", if believing that makes someone a false prophet, then my dear brother, you are just as misguided and unable to see the truth as those you have been dealing with over in the other thread. Respectfully.

And so does the Pope and his henchmen read an dpreach Scripture
Mormons
jehovah witnesses
and satan himself = 2 Cor ch11

Now let us TOGETHER get into the Word and believe what our Heavenly FATHER Says on this matter.

God has clearly specified when certain prophecies will be fulfilled = very seldom with specific dates but with actual fulfillment

The "little season of satan" is clearly given to us in Revelation and precisely when it will occur according to Prophetic Fulfillment of said prophesy found in the Genesis , the Gospel , Apostles and Revelation

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

7When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.

9And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heavena and consumed them. 10And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Archie]

And so does the Pope and his henchmen read an dpreach Scripture
Mormons
jehovah witnesses
and satan himself = 2 Cor ch11

Now let us TOGETHER get into the Word and believe what our Heavenly FATHER Says on this matter.

God has clearly specified when certain prophecies will be fulfilled = very seldom with specific dates but with actual fulfillment

The "little season of satan" is clearly given to us in Revelation and precisely when it will occur according to Prophetic Fulfillment of said prophesy found in the Genesis , the Gospel , Apostles and Revelation

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

7When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.

9And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heavena and consumed them. 10And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I couldn't care less what the pope thinks nor is it relevant to our discussion.

Was there some point you were trying to make?

Christ returned, he reigned, the reign ended, Satan was released, and here we are, living in his little season. None of the scriptures you posted deny that possibility in any way, in fact, they support my position.

 

[David in NJ]

Was there some point you were trying to make?

Christ returned, he reigned, the reign ended, Satan was released, and here we are, living in his little season. None of the scriptures you posted deny that possibility in any way, in fact, they support my position.

Previous post was directed to Satan establishing false prophets and apostels in main stream 'christian' religions with the Vatican as Example #1

Reveation chapter 20 says their is only One FIRST Resurrection which occurs on the "Last Day" which is the 2nd Coming of Christ /Gospel

This is why i gave you two days ago Daniel 12:1-3 and John 6:35-40

1“At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.
3Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
4“But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end;


35And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

 

[WPM]

LOVE this - but are you sure?

The Bible teaches us: just as there was a connection between the fall of man and the fall of creation so there will be a correlation between the glorification of man and the glorification of creation.

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 declares: “For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”

1 Corinthians 15:50-54 continues: “flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.”

To inherit the incorrupt age to come, God has to suitably change us into incorrupt beings. Basically, He is going to perfect us so that we are qualified to inherit the perfect world to come.

This eliminates the oft-stated Premillennial claim that the unsaved can in fact inhabit the new earth. Regardless of whether one is saved or not, if they aren’t glorified, they cannot inherit the new earth. No mortal shall inhabit it.

The prime focus of these passages is “the resurrection of the dead” and the termination of death. This is the time when corruption is finally banished from the earth forever. This is the occasion when the redeemed "inherit the kingdom of God." This is the much-anticipated arrival of the new creation in all its visible, glorious, perfect and eternal glory.

But when does this happen?

Both of these passages demonstrate that this occurs at the “coming” (or parousia) of the Lord, which is described as “the last trump.” It also confirms that this ushers in “the end.” This is the closing curtain of time, sin, corruption and mortality. We are now into eternity. No one could therefore argue with any validity that death is not finally and eternally destroyed at the second coming, the time here denoted as “the end.”

This passage closely mirrors many other similar passages, confirming that the last enemy is demolished at “the last trump.” Corruption finds it end when Christ comes in all His glory. This corroborates what Paul was teaching about the scourge of corruption being terminated when the elect are redeemed at Christ’s appearing. No one can deny the correlation between the glorification of the elect and the glorification of the earth. God’s people cannot populate an incorrupt earth. They need their bodies suitably attired in perfection to be able to enjoy that eternal state.

Romans 8:16-23 teaches, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption [Gr. phthartos or perishableness or decaying] into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will be finally delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.”

Scripture makes it abundantly clear there will be an end to the current fallen state. There will be a day of complete deliverance.

At this juncture we must briefly enquire, what is this “bondage of corruption” spoken of in this passage that will one day be removed? It is the awful curse that came upon all mankind as a result of Adam’s fall in the Garden of Eden. This curse embodies every effect of the Fall that afflicts man, including sin, death, and every form of decay. It is the perishableness we suffer from in this life.

1 Peter 1:3-7: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible [Gr. aphthrsia or imperishable or undecaying], and undefiled, and that fadeth not away [Gr. amarantos or perpetual], reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.”

Like Romans 8:16-23, 1 Peter 1:3-7 is comparing the toil and trials of this present age to the glory that will be experienced when Jesus comes. We see that the corruption will be eternally lifted when Jesus comes and introduces a perfect arrangement. Believers are shown to receive an “inheritance incorruptible” at “the appearing of Jesus Christ” – which is here also described as “the last time.”

So, let us consider some glorious truths in this passage:

• The means by which the righteous will all physically rise is “the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”
• What they rise to is “an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away.”
• The location of that inheritance is “reserved in heaven”
• The time of this resurrection and reward will occur: “in the last time” which is here expressly identified with the “appearing of Jesus Christ.”

What we experience in this imperfect age is perishing and decaying, but when Jesus comes, we are ushered into a new age to receive an inheritance that will be perfect, non-decaying and eternal. Premillennialists try and move this to the end of their supposed future millennium. But this passage is just one of many forbids that.

In Luke 20:34-36, Jesus basically compares the temporal imperfect state of this present age/world to the glory of the age/world to come. Jesus says: “The children of this world [Gr. aion or age] marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world [Gr. aion or age], and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.”

This couldn’t be any clearer. This teaching of Christ reinforces the fact that not everyone is qualified to inherit the perfect world to come that arrives with the return of Christ. This narrative totally prohibits mortals and the wicked from populating the new earth. After all, that age is depicted as a reward for the redeemed. It is for those who belong to God. It is for those who know Him personally.

While marriage takes place in “this age/world,” Christ tells us that it will not take place in “that age/world,” which follows the resurrection. There is no marriage after the resurrection because Christ ushers in the eternal state which requires perfect spiritual bodies instead of corrupt physical bodies. The glorified saints will have perfected bodies, just like the elect angels. There will be no more separation, sin or death. Marriage is therefore terminated, because it represents division between human beings.

 

[WPM]

Christ returned, he reigned, the reign ended, Satan was released, and here we are, living in his little season. None of the scriptures you posted deny that possibility in any way, in fact, they support my position.

When did the millennium begin and when did it end?

 

[David in NJ]

The Bible teaches us: just as there was a connection between the fall of man and the fall of creation so there will be a correlation between the glorification of man and the glorification of creation.

Yes, Brother i know and trust all those scriptures but wanted to see if you knew Romans ch8

My pc is glitching so i may not be able to continue

 

[TribulationSigns]

I couldn't care less what the pope thinks nor is it relevant to our discussion.

Was there some point you were trying to make?

Christ returned, he reigned, the reign ended, Satan was released, and here we are, living in his little season. None of the scriptures you posted deny that possibility in any way, in fact, they support my position.

I notice you still haven’t explained who exactly the armies of Gog and Magog were, nor when this supposedly happened in history. I’m sure there’s a perfectly good reason for that… like the fact that it didn’t.

Christ did not return in 70 AD, no matter how much preterists try to squeeze Him into that timeframe. Scripture is pretty clear:

• His first coming was to establish His New Covenant Church through His death and resurrection (Matthew 16:18), confirmed at Pentecost when the Spirit empowered the church (aka Two Witnesses) to preach to Gospel. (Acts 2, Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:7).
• He ascended to the Father (Mark 16:19) to sit on the right hand of God reigns over His Church during the millennal kingdom age (Acts 2:33–36; Psalm 110:1).
• He returns after the Church is completed but tarries to allow Satan’s “little season” (Revelation 7:1-4, Revelation 20:3, Mathew 25:5-6).
• And the Second Coming? It will be at the last trump, when every eye all over the world shall see Him (Revelation 1:7). Not just Roman soldiers at Jerusalem.

So no, the Second Coming absolutely did not occur in 70 AD—unless we’re prepared to pretend that the resurrection of the dead, the final judgment, the new heavens and new earth, and every eye seeing Him were all… “spiritualized” into invisibility.

But Scripture doesn’t bend that far, even if preterism tries to.

 

[WPM]

Yes, Brother i know and trust all those scriptures but wanted to see if you knew Romans ch8

My pc is glitching so i may not be able to continue

Sorry? I quoted it. I showed when incorruption kicks in according to that and other passages.

 

[David in NJ]

Sorry? I quoted it. I showed when incorruption kicks in according to that and other passages.

YES, i agree/SEE with Romans ch8 and your posting it

i wasn't sure if you knew and that was why i asked you = "if you were sure"

 

[David in NJ]

• He returns after the Church is completed but tarries to allow Satan’s “little season” (Revelation 7:1-4, Revelation 20:3, Mathew 25:5-6).

You mixed together scriptures

Please explain your mix there = thank you

 

[TribulationSigns]

You mixed together scriptures

Please explain your mix there = thank you

Mix?

I knew that you didn’t actually understand the Scripture I quoted anyway - - probably because you’re not an Amillennialist to begin with. So let me spell it out for you in plain terms:

During the church age from Pentecost to last Elect, God sealed His people while He kept Satan bound (Revelation 20:1–3). After every one of the Elect was secured—yes, all of them, Revelation 7:1-4, —Christ loosed Satan for a little season to be used to expose and judge the unfaithful within the visible congregation. These are the ones who end up deceived, marked by Satan, and swept into apostasy, causing the church to become desolate - Babylon the Great, Revelation 17-18.

Once the "hour" of judgment on the counterfeit church is complete, Christ returns. Simple, biblical, and not nearly as complicated as whatever alternative timeline you’re trying to assemble.

 

[WPM]

YES, i agree/SEE with Romans ch8 and your posting it

i wasn't sure if you knew and that was why i asked you = "if you were sure"

And here lies the mammoth dilemma for Premil. Their impending earth is filled with corruption, sin and death.