A Moral Framework for Same Sex Unions?

[RANDOR]

This Vale Of Tears, on 17 Nov 2013 - 5:41 PM, said:

You are furthermore deceiving yourself by claiming you are "helping" homosexuals by casting out imaginary demons. Your incantations and magic shows are nothing more than tricks that don't bring about lasting freedom because homosexuality isn't a demon to be cast out, it's a disorder in one's sexual orientation and as such, never really goes away.

Me thinks you need to get out more.............I know many Homosexuals who have been set free from these chains. heck....even go and watch Christian Television...........there you can also hear testimonies. And yes it is a demon..................betcha you have never seen one either...I have......
So, lets let.............experience talk and not hearsay.

A lot of people speak and have never seen.........................gee..................it's so simple................go some place and see............get involved.......
AND BE BLOWN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh-ya...........and by the way.................it just strengthens your faith to higher levels.

Remember.....if it isn't of God..........it is of satan.................automatically.

 

[aspen]

i am sure you believe all mental illness is demonic right? so with that mentality, i should be fighting demons 8 to 10 times a day in my profession.....yet i have still failed to meet one...hmm. perhaps instead of demons causing mental disorders or disordered sexuality, it may be just our attempt to control something we have little understanding of and very little control over. it is easy to cast out demon whenever you feel uncomfortable with a persons disordered behavior - much easier than having faith that God is ultimately in control

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

i am sure you believe all mental illness is demonic right? so with that mentality, i should be fighting demons 8 to 10 times a day in my profession.....yet i have still failed to meet one...hmm. perhaps instead of demons causing mental disorders or disordered sexuality, it may be just our attempt to control something we have little understanding of and very little control over. it is easy to cast out demon whenever you feel uncomfortable with a persons disordered behavior - much easier than having faith that God is ultimately in control

Human beings are slothful by nature and we tend to seek the easy path. We like one step solutions and simplified formulas. Why labor patiently with a chronic condition when we can frame it as a demon that can be cast out in a ten minute prayer? And the CCC's characterization of homosexuality as "intrinsically disordered" is spot on. It isn't a hideous gargoyle from a Frank Peretti book that can be dispatched with the swinging arc of a supernatural sword. It's a disorder of the mind that will never be fully conquered. In three pages of this thread, I've encountered all the axioms of ignorance I anticipated and coupled with an obstinance to revisit old assumptions and consider other viewpoints. It's small wonder that homosexuals find little compassion and understanding among Christians and are forced to seek God on their own terms.

 

[aspen]

I totally agree Vale

 

[RANDOR]

In three pages of this thread, I've encountered all the axioms of ignorance I anticipated and coupled with an obstinance to revisit old assumptions and consider other viewpoints. It's small wonder that homosexuals find little compassion and understanding among Christians and are forced to seek God on their own terms.

Vale of Tears....I agree with almost all your posts.......But, who really cares if I agree with ya or not...I mean...who am I right?...........but how can ya say what I've spoken to you is as ignorance.............is it not mirrored to you?..........I mean...I've experienced what i say to people.........many people in here only read and write to me.

Not one thing have I posted here...........since I've joined this forum............has not been spoken without backing, proof, and substance...what i recieve in return is hearsay.............always hearsay.

I consider NO!!!!! other view points............for are they not of man?
And if we seek that of man and not straight from the source............we are no better off than we were 2 minutes ago.....and that 2 minutes will grow into 80 years real quick.....thus ending our lives still in speculation..........and missed the whole Truth and nothing but the truth.

Have you taken a year out of your life and just spent it with God?
These forums are not spending time with God.
Have you left your family...and just went to God? Just you.....by yourself
I know not all of us can do that..........but I have.............and until you've walked in my shoes and seen all the glorys of Christ you can't say what I speak as arrogance.

I'm not arguing with you...............for I love the love you have for Christ.....I really do......I jump for joy at your love.
But I've gone deeper.....deeper than most will ever get to.......I'm not better than you because of that......but I've seen many many many many miracles...

And yes, I agree with what you said about the homosexual...but the homosexual is no different than a man lieing, the homosexual is no different than a person who just murdered eight people, the homosexual is no different than an adulterer and the homosexual is no different than the most kindest person in the world. For they are all in and have remained in their sins.

It's small wonder that homosexuals find little compassion and understanding among Christians and are forced to seek God on their own terms.

Yes, there are some really weird people out there who call themselves Christians as you have mentioned......but who have they been taught by?
Yes, we are compassionate with the sinners...........but we do not withold the truth....

You seem to be a beautiful person..........and again I admire your faith..........

But remember...............God's words have been so watered down............I pity the homosexual......or any sinner for that matter who comes face to face with some off the wall beliefs about our savior.

And that's why........as you said.............they seek God on their own terms....

And why is it...they do this?

Because you and I were not there.....to tell and show them the truth. How sad
for a sinner to end up in the hands of a luke warm Christian....it tears me apart....
and if it tears us apart.......what must it do to God.

 

[aspen]

Vale is Catholic - most educated Catholics spend a great deal of their lives with God - not meaning to speak for you Vale. Its sort of the catholic thing to do.

 

[Liquid Psalm]

Just because people with deprived minds sincerely believe something that is clearly wrong it does not mean you should do the same. Which part of "shell not inherit the kingdom of God" don't you understand?
Allowing your children to see them as normal is something you are going to have to explain to God some day. I would not want to be you.

True.

Well behaved sinners are still sinners. Homosexuality is an abomination unto God. That does not change. Nor does the destiny of the unrepentant just because they comport themselves with a sense of modesty, etc... they are still immoral fornicators in the eyes of God. And in the end how they acted as the unrepentant won't save them.

Besides that fact according to scripture, the scriptures tell us by their fruits we shall know them. I wouldn't let lesbians babysit my child when I am trying to instill in my children a sense of God's word and righteousness.
How do we accomplish right teaching then?
God says this about sin and damnation, but I'll expose you to that unrepentant sinner couple and hope you understand they're special?

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

True.

Well behaved sinners are still sinners. Homosexuality is an abomination unto God. That does not change. Nor does the destiny of the unrepentant just because they comport themselves with a sense of modesty, etc... they are still immoral fornicators in the eyes of God. And in the end how they acted as the unrepentant won't save them.

Besides that fact according to scripture, the scriptures tell us by their fruits we shall know them. I wouldn't let lesbians babysit my child when I am trying to instill in my children a sense of God's word and righteousness.
How do we accomplish right teaching then?
God says this about sin and damnation, but I'll expose you to that unrepentant sinner couple and hope you understand they're special?

I wanted to sit a spell before responding.

You and I are equal to the practicing homosexual in that "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD" according to Romans which tells us in conclusion in that same chapter that all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. (verse 3:23)

We all remain unrepentant sinners in the sense that we never give up our sinful tendencies and more importantly, acknowledge that certain things we do are sinful. Homosexuality is an abomination according to the law of Leviticus, but rebellion is a sin on par with witchcraft (1Samuel 15:23) and in some respect, the entire Protestant "reformation" is a massive rebellion against the authority of the Church Christ established. You may disagree, but what if I'm right, and this ongoing rebellion, which is no different than witchcraft, remains an act unrepented to the point of eternal perdition?

The point is, we may not be fully aware of the sin which we obstinantly perpetuate. Thank God that we are saved by GRACE!

Now to the homosexual, I know you just joined the forum and are just becoming familiar with this thread, and I don't expect you actually read it all, but I've addressed this in assiduous detail, the power of invincible ignorance even among those who are otherwise seeking God's forgiveness and the promise of eternal life in Christ. When talking about a moral framework for same sex couples, I'm implying that these are believers who go to church and attempt by all means to live lives of conscience before man and before God. What I've seen copiously intimated throughout this thread is the erroneous belief that these people are flaunting deliberate sin in the masquerades of Christianity, that they understand it's condemned by God, but contemptuously persist in it to heap on offenses.

And I've said repeatedly throughout this thread that the biggest problem is people talking about homosexuals instead of TO them.

Because if you all talked TO them, you would understand this isn't so. Gay couples in a moral context see their relationship as sacred, sacrificial, and in no way unequal to heterosexual relationships. They aren't oppressing their neighbors through roving bands of sodomites such as those who brought judgment to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. They aren't passing children through the fires of Molech. They don't live promiscuously having sex with multiple partners, doing drugs, and prostituting themselves as drag queens. In most respects, from their view, they aren't hurting anyone whatsoever. They believe that infidelity is betrayal and that the absolute principles of right and wrong apply to them as well as anyone else.

But most importantly, they don't see their relationship, forged through fire and bonded in undying love, is wrong and are even offended at the notion. THAT'S what I mean when I refer to invincible ignorance. Are these people saved by the law or are they saved by grace? And if they are saved by the law then what does that portend for the rest of us who may unwittingly harbor unresolved rebellion? Do we dare to subject ourselves to the same intransigent standard that we wish imposed on others? Or do we instead celebrate the oceans of GRACE that saves us in spite of ourselves, all who come to God through faith in Jesus Christ?

I can't speak for everyone, but as for me, I elect GRACE.

 

[Liquid Psalm]

I wanted to sit a spell before responding.

You and I are equal to the practicing homosexual in that "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD" according to Romans which tells us in conclusion in that same chapter that all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. (verse 3:23)

We all remain unrepentant sinners in the sense that we never give up our sinful tendencies and more importantly, acknowledge that certain things we do are sinful. Homosexuality is an abomination according to the law of Leviticus, but rebellion is a sin on par with witchcraft (1Samuel 15:23) and in some respect, the entire Protestant "reformation" is a massive rebellion against the authority of the Church Christ established. You may disagree, but what if I'm right, and this ongoing rebellion, which is no different than witchcraft, remains an act unrepented to the point of eternal perdition?

The point is, we may not be fully aware of the sin which we obstinantly perpetuate. Thank God that we are saved by GRACE!

It is a shame that you set awhile and contemplated your response before posting and chose in that end to attack Protestants, while then implying at least we're all saved by Grace despite the fact, according to you, the Protestants continue to obstinantly perpetuate a sin, a rebellion, like unto witchcraft. :blink:

Now to the homosexual, I know you just joined the forum and are just becoming familiar with this thread, and I don't expect you actually read it all, but I've addressed this in assiduous detail, the power of invincible ignorance even among those who are otherwise seeking God's forgiveness and the promise of eternal life in Christ. When talking about a moral framework for same sex couples, I'm implying that these are believers who go to church and attempt by all means to live lives of conscience before man and before God. What I've seen copiously intimated throughout this thread is the erroneous belief that these people are flaunting deliberate sin in the masquerades of Christianity, that they understand it's condemned by God, but contemptuously persist in it to heap on offenses.

And I've said repeatedly throughout this thread that the biggest problem is people talking about homosexuals instead of TO them.

Because if you all talked TO them, you would understand this isn't so. Gay couples in a moral context see their relationship as sacred, sacrificial, and in no way unequal to heterosexual relationships. They aren't oppressing their neighbors through roving bands of sodomites such as those who brought judgment to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. They aren't passing children through the fires of Molech. They don't live promiscuously having sex with multiple partners, doing drugs, and prostituting themselves as drag queens. In most respects, from their view, they aren't hurting anyone whatsoever. They believe that infidelity is betrayal and that the absolute principles of right and wrong apply to them as well as anyone else.

But most importantly, they don't see their relationship, forged through fire and bonded in undying love, is wrong and are even offended at the notion. THAT'S what I mean when I refer to invincible ignorance. Are these people saved by the law or are they saved by grace? And if they are saved by the law then what does that portend for the rest of us who may unwittingly harbor unresolved rebellion? Do we dare to subject ourselves to the same intransigent standard that we wish imposed on others? Or do we instead celebrate the oceans of GRACE that saves us in spite of ourselves, all who come to God through faith in Jesus Christ?

I can't speak for everyone, but as for me, I elect GRACE.

You presume much. And since you're making your argument and defending your argument on behalf of gays who are proud unrepentant sinners in love, there's nothing I care to add besides these words already printed.



[/QUOTE]

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

You presume much. And since you're making your argument and defending your argument on behalf of gays who are proud unrepentant sinners in love, there's nothing I care to add besides these words already printed.

Gays aren't necessarily "unrepentant sinners", but go on with your bad self making up stories about gays and then wondering why they don't ever listen to Christians. Pope Francis is right that the Christian Church has done a poor job of reaching out to homosexuals and it's small wonder. Would you want to be converted by somebody who makes up lies about you?

 

[tooldtocare]

I am not a homosexual and having said that I ask you here--

When I was very young, I believed love making was for the procreation of children. That’s how I got here as well as my other three brothers and a sister. It was the natural flow of life.

This is how I lived my life; which gave me two sons and a happy marriage; the term “sex” never entered my mind.

Now with my wife gone and my children having children of their own the need for comfort still exists, so I am here to ask;

Is wanting the comfort of a woman knowing you have no intention of having children in the process a bad thing---

Is this a sin--?

 

[Deborah_]

I am not a homosexual and having said that I ask you here--

When I was very young, I believed love making was for the procreation of children. That’s how I got here as well as my other three brothers and a sister. It was the natural flow of life.

This is how I lived my life; which gave me two sons and a happy marriage; the term “sex” never entered my mind.

Now with my wife gone and my children having children of their own the need for comfort still exists, so I am here to ask;

Is wanting the comfort of a woman knowing you have no intention of having children in the process a bad thing---

Is this a sin--?

Theologically, "It is not good for the man to be alone" (Genesis 2:18) Eve wasn't created just so Adam could make babies; she was to be his companion, assistant and friend.

Biologically, sex isn't just for procreation. It's also for what biologists call "pair-bonding" - it helps to glue your relationship together. Couples who stop having sex once their family is complete usually end up getting divorced.

And sex also gives us pleasure (and Scripture endorses this - see the Song of Songs)

So no - it wouldn't be a sin for a widow or widower to marry again and have sex, even if they are too old to have more children.

 

[tooldtocare]

Couples who stop having sex once their family is complete usually end up getting divorced.

That is what happened in my marrage. If she had only told me things would have turned out better for both of us and my children as well

So no - it wouldn't be a sin for a widow or widower to marry again and have sex, even if they are too old to have more children.

Thank you for your reply.
(:-

 

[tooldtocare]

This does not apply to me but still since I am here, I ask---
If two men or two women enjoy each other’s company and spend a lot of time together, even move in together (no sexual contact), they just like each other’s company; does this mean they are homosexuals-?

 

[justbyfaith]

My response to page 1 of this thread:

But even more important, you allude to an understanding of grace that I think is conspicuously absent in discussing homosexuality, that we all fall woefully short of a perfect standard and that one day we will all stand before a holy God and but for the shed blood of Jesus Christ we will stand guilty and condemned every one of us.

The shed blood of Christ, when it is truly applied, has a sanctifying effect

Heb 13:12, Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

Heb 10:29, Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This sanctification would include repentance from such sins as homosexuality, as the person is delivered from sin the first thing to go would be the most wicked, of which homosexuality can be defined as.

I agree with you that the homosexual couple is no different than two single heterosexuals cohabiting together. They both commit the sin of fornication.

Actually, in Romans 1, homosexuality is shown to be the result of what God calls a reprobate mind...it is the end result of total depravity...the final end of walking down a path towards sin.

Visions, angels, and even signs in the sky couldn't convince them in a thousand years that what they have together is immoral.

If even God cannot show them the error of their way, the that is the sign of a heart that is truly hard.

Eph 5:11, And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12, For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

Take the sexual contact out of the relationship and it isn't immoral...but you have them doing what lesbians do in porn movies (a part of what I used to watch in my B.C. years), then that is plainly sick...they will receive in themselves the just penalty which is meet, in the form of STD's and AIDS, which has now spread to heterosexual communities because of bisexuality, but is still primarily a homosexual disease.

whereas same sex couples live in the truth.

This is simply a lie from the pit of hell.

How about abortion nurses that are just doing their job?

Get a different job.

In knowing this, I propose with this thread that we hold them to high standards of personal conduct; that they exercise godly principles of selfless love and unbreachable fidelity in their committed relationships. Certainly my lesbian friends demonstrate that it can be done.

Jesus spoke of how the Pharisees were outwardly righteous before men but inwardly were full of all extortion and excess. And you are assuming that homosexuals, in order to promote their agenda, do not also put their best foot forward in order to get credibility. But the Bible teaches that those who practice homosexuality have the following sinful attitudes:

Rom 1:28, And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29, Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32, Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

You can either believe the image that they are attempting to portray, or you can believe the Bible.

The fact that they don't come clean and admit that this is what is in their hearts is also an attempt to discredit the Bible; which makes their hypocrisy a thousand times worse.

btw, there is someone very close to me that lives, or perhaps used to live, a homosexual lifestyle (they are getting older and the wear and tear of it all could be getting to them). I love that person dearly; but I desire that the Lord would set him free from that lifestyle and behaviour because I know that it is blinding him to the truth of God's word and keeping him from knowing Christ as Saviour and Lord.

 

[justbyfaith]

This does not apply to me but still since I am here, I ask---
If two men or two women enjoy each other’s company and spend a lot of time together, even move in together (no sexual contact), they just like each other’s company; does this mean they are homosexuals-?

Absolutely not.

King David (before he became king) had a strong friendship with Jonathan King Saul's son. Strong same sex friendships where there is no sexual contact are God's design for friendship. Otherwise the only valid close friendship a person might have would be with their spouse of the opposite sex.

 

[justbyfaith]

But what we've been doing so far has not only not met with success at drawing homosexuals into the church, but has even done the disservice of pushing them away.

If any homosexual becomes a part of the true church, they will not be practicing anymore. No one is telling homosexuals not to come where we meet to worship the Lord; but they need to be prepared to hear preaching against their sin when it comes up in the word of the Lord. And they need to know that Unless ye repent, you will all likewise perish...Luke 13:3,5.

You are furthermore deceiving yourself by claiming you are "helping" homosexuals by casting out imaginary demons.

Demons are not imaginary.

Mat 8:28, And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
Mat 8:29, And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Mat 8:30, And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
Mat 8:31, So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
Mat 8:32, And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
Mat 8:33, And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.
Mat 8:34, And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.

Mar 5:1, And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
Mar 5:2, And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
Mar 5:3, Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
Mar 5:4, Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
Mar 5:5, And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
Mar 5:6, But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
Mar 5:7, And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
Mar 5:8, For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
Mar 5:9, And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
Mar 5:10, And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
Mar 5:11, Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
Mar 5:12, And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
Mar 5:13, And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand; ) and were choked in the sea.
Mar 5:14, And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.
Mar 5:15, And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

Asking them to give each other up would really be no different than asking a married couple to break up.

In my own married life, we have developed to the stage where storge is the primary love that is exhibited rather than eros. My wife and I love each other deeply; but there is no longer any need for concupiscence; and I also feel that that is something that the Lord wants to take out of all of our hearts (not just my wife and I but the readers of this post also), because it is of the flesh and when we walk according to the flesh we are not walking according to the Spirit.

So, in the case you mention above, I would say, continue the relationship but refrain from doing what is abominable before the Lord; the sexual contact that is debased and depraved and perverted in the context of a lesbian or homosexual relationship.

 

[justbyfaith]

It isn't a hideous gargoyle from a Frank Peretti book that can be dispatched with the swinging arc of a supernatural sword. It's a disorder of the mind that will never be fully conquered.

Jesus is certainly capable of conquering any thing of satan. Never is a strong word...are you sure you want to abide by it?

Is wanting the comfort of a woman knowing you have no intention of having children in the process a bad thing---

Is this a sin--?

No.

 

[marksman]

It's a question I want to posit and I'm sure I'll get a lot of heat for it.

I have a very good and lifelong friend. She was my favorite teacher in Middle School and we still maintain a good relationship today, though she's retired now. She lives with her domestic partner close to where I live. Her family and ours do a lot of things together and she babysits our children from time to time.

I didn't know she was a lesbian when I was in school because she maintained a professional demeanor at all times, not flaunting her sexuality. And she is today as she always was, always modest when it comes to what to make public and what to keep private. She and her partner are Christians, part of a more liberal congregation, and they exhibit a deep piety and a strong sense of right and wrong.

She and her partner have been together for 30 years even though in this state they cannot be officially married. Their union is still distinguished by the fidelity and sacrificial love that any good marriage has. They believe strongly that they are following Jesus and that their love for each other is not condemned by a loving God. They aren't "angry liberal feminist lesbians" and they respect my belief that the Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered". They know my views on the Biblical passages in Exodus, Leviticus, and Romans but we maintain just a respectful disagreement on this.

My 5 and 10 year old sons absolutely adore them and love to visit. I've been scolded in the past about this, saying they will be harmed by exposure to immorality and I've struggled with the question of whether or not to forbid contact, which would effectively end a lifelong friendship. My wife, who's more liberal than I and she said "don't you dare" deprive our sons of such great friendships. And anyone who's married, knows that when certainty is at loggerheads with uncertainty, certainty prevails.

But now getting to my question, should Christians expect a moral framework for same sex unions even while maintaining that same sex unions are not the will of God for people's lives? My lesbian friends are a paragon of virtue, modesty, and conscience and certainly demonstrate that the floor hasn't dropped out for all manner of deviance, cruelty, and perversion just because a couple are gay and in a loving union. I just don't know that the all-or-nothing approach is an effective way to reach out to homosexuals, either same sex partnerships are abstained from completely or once indulged, the participants are written off to unbridled perversion and immorality.

What I am compelled by is the sincerity of their belief that they are within God's will. I've told them that I truly respect what they have built, a life together that, like any good family, is a platform for acts of love and charity toward their fellow man. And I honestly don't know how they'll be judged by God in the end but it's difficult for me to imagine they'll be condemned.

Not possible as it is an either or. You can't have both. Just because they believe something doesn't make it right. I can believe the world is flat but that won't make it flat.

Having studied and worked in the realm of homosexuality for many years I have heard every rationalisation possible.

Until you know what homosexuality is and the cause of it you cannot even begin to understand it.

Most people think the problem is homosexuality, but nothing could be further from the truth. If you focus on that you will get nowhere.

The essence of homosexuality is identity. They become homosexual because that is where they get their identity.

A young man who grows up in a loving home with a loving father gets married to a person of the opposite sex because that is the identity he has received from his father.

With very few exceptions a young homosexual has not had a loving home or a loving father. I have spoken to enough of them to know this to be fact.

God created them male and female. Why do you think he did that? His purpose for that was he wanted his created earth populated with lots and lots of people that bore his image.

Two men or two women do not bear his image so it can never be right, no matter how loving it is.

Surprising as it may seem, God is male and female, not male and male. Elohim, one of his names denotes the female side of him.

To give credence to homosexual or lesbian relations is to say that a male and female living together and not married but are very loving and caring is OK.

Homosexuals in their attempt to legitimise their sin say that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. Sorry but that is incorrect. In Matthew, he reiterated what was written in Genisis about male and female which means that God had not changed his mind over a period of 4,000 years.

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course, Jesus was/is a man.

1Ti 2:5, For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;