A proof that the 1000 year reign of Christ with His people is in the heavenly throne room, not the earth

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nope. Not one second coming passage shows anything of the sort.

Agree. There's not one second coming passage, there's more than one second coming passage which shows that.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Why does Paul say that those in spiritual darkness will not escape the "sudden destruction" that will occur when the Lord Jesus comes as a thief in the night? Because of what Peter taught about the same event.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

No unbelievers can escape the earth being burned up when Jesus comes as a thief in the night. Believers will be changed to put on bodily immortality at that time.

 

[Scott Downey]

When Christ returns, we shall all be changed, there will no longer be flesh and blood people with mortal bodies.
Note that Paul says we shall not all sleep
This can only be referring to the resurrection of the dead in Christ.
And we know the dead are raised when Christ returns

1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

When scripture talks of sleeping, it is referring to the body not the spirit of a man.
That 'we shall not all sleep', refers to the truth that some flesh and blood people shall be living in their mortal bodies at the return of the Christ, all the others died in the Lord Jesus, their life is hidden with Christ in God.

Colossians 3
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

This 'for you died; is a different aspect of death, it is not physical death of the body. However, the dead in the Lord Jesus, their life is also hid in Christ with God, we are all of one body.

This, 'but we shall all be changed', refers to that not a single resurrected saint in the Lord Jesus will retain a flesh and blood body.

1 Cor 15

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

55 “O[n] Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”

 

[Marty fox]

Now you need to show how all that doesn't contradict Revelation 3:21, the fact that verse teaches, in light of Matthew 25:31, for instance, that overcomers don't sit with Christ in Christ's throne until He returns first.

Do I have to answer it or does Paul?

Very well then

Revelation 3:21
21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

I don’t see a contradiction here we are already victorious over sin and death because of Jesus

Matthew 25:31
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.

No contradiction here either as the following verse show that this is the judgement seat.

Why don’t you just believe what Paul clearly taught showing that revelation 20:4 is already fulfilled? Paul showed that we are already spiritually raised to life, spiritually seated with Jesus and spiritually reigning in life

If Paul is wrong then the New Testament is wrong

 

[Marilyn C]

Yes, this reign in heaven is ongoing today, not in the future only. My point is this scripture has been used as evidence for a future reign only on the earth of a thousand years.

Christians will reign on the earth, but it will be the new earth Christians will inherit, an earth where only righteousness will be dwelling, and God will dwell with man with the New Jerusalem descending from Heaven. There will not be any Satanic rebellion or decieving of the nations. The whole reigning on the old earth of Christ is one of those Christian myths.

I agree that the Lord does NOT reign physically on the earth but He will through Israel.

Now where does God`s word say we, the Body of Christ will reign ON the earth?

 

[Marilyn C]

You are now Amil and no longer Premil? The OP is arguing Amil.

Thank you, Got it.

I do agree with Scott however, that the Lord will not reign physically on the earth but through Israel. I disagree with him saying we will reign on the earth. There are no scriptures for that. The Body of Christ will never reign on the earth but OVER the earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

Do I have to answer it or does Paul?

Very well then

Revelation 3:21
21 To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

I don’t see a contradiction here we are already victorious over sin and death because of Jesus

Matthew 25:31
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.

No contradiction here either as the following verse show that this is the judgement seat.

Why don’t you just believe what Paul clearly taught showing that revelation 20:4 is already fulfilled? Paul showed that we are already spiritually raised to life, spiritually seated with Jesus and spiritually reigning in life

If Paul is wrong then the New Testament is wrong

Jesus is presently at the Father`s right hand and is told to sit there TILL the Father makes His enemies His footstool.

`The LORD (Father) said to my Lord (Son) "Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool.` (Ps. 110: 1)

And that is still now. The Lord`s enemies are not presently at His footstool for judgment. The Father soon will send His Son to gather His body and take them to the third heaven where they will take part in His visible inauguration as Sovereign King over all God`s Kingdom. (Acts 3: 20 & 21 1 Thess. 4: 14 - 17 Rev. 4: 2 - 4)

Rev. 20: 4 saints are those out of the great tribulation who had been beheaded for their witness of Jesus and not worshipped the A/C. The Body of Christ, represented by the 24 elders are already in heaven and are the heavenly court that judges fallen angels and the world system. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

 

[Marilyn C]

The Millenium, the "thousand years", is on Earth because Rev 19 says the reign is over the nations with a rod of iron and the nations are on the Earth. There are no unsaved nations in heaven or the throne room. Rev 5 also speaks of a reign on Earth, matching the reign over the Earthly nations.

Even in Amill the Millennium is on Earth, with living saints reigning here while Christ reigns from heaven. That still is a Earthly reign.

I agree that the thousand years on earth is where the Lord reigns over the nations. However, the Body of Christ is in heaven with the Lord also ruling over the nations.

You see Rev. 5: 10 has the word `epi` which can mean over or on. `And has made us kings and priests to our God and we shall reign `EPI,` the earth.` (Rev. 5: 10) Thus we need more scriptures to show which word it is - over or on. As we are told we are with the Lord on His throne and He rulers over the nation of the earth, then we are in heaven also. (Rev. 3: 21)

 

[Davidpt]

Now where does God`s word say we, the Body of Christ will reign ON the earth?

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests : and we shall reign on the earth.

How about here, for one? Compare with the following. Both have what I underlined in common.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign(as kings, obviously) with him a thousand years.


Not to mention, verses 8-9 also prove that verses 4,6 are involving the earth not heaven.

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth , Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth , and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

How is it reasonable than none of this is involving anyone mentioned in verses 4,6? How can the camp of the saints be excluding the ones mentioned in verses 4,6?

Even beginning with verse 1 it is the earth that is in view the fact an angel comes down from heaven and binds satan. Comes down to where? The earth, obviously. Exactly where Revelation 12 places him following the war in heaven---Revelation 12:9. Therefore, we at least know Revelation 20:1 is meaning after Revelation 12:9 is fulfilled. Immediately after, though? I wouldn't think so the fact Revelation 12:14, which is what he does first once he sees he is cast unto the earth, does not even remotely resemble anything pertaining to Revelation 20:1-3.

 

[Marilyn C]

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests : and we shall reign on the earth.

How about here, for one? Compare with the following. Both have what I underlined in common.

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign(as kings, obviously) with him a thousand years.


Not to mention, verses 8-9 also prove that verses 4,6 are involving the earth not heaven.

Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth , Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth , and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

How is it reasonable than none of this is involving anyone mentioned in verses 4,6? How can the camp of the saints be excluding the ones mentioned in verses 4,6?

Even beginning with verse 1 it is the earth that is in view the fact an angel comes down from heaven and binds satan. Comes down to where? The earth, obviously. Exactly where Revelation 12 places him following the war in heaven---Revelation 12:9. Therefore, we at least know Revelation 20:1 is meaning after Revelation 12:9 is fulfilled. Immediately after, though? I wouldn't think so the fact Revelation 12:14, which is what he does first once he sees he is cast unto the earth, does not even remotely resemble anything pertaining to Revelation 20:1-3.

Hi David,

We shall reign `Epi ` the earth. Over or on.

The Body of Christ is already ON the throne with Christ in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) The Rev. 20: 6 saints are those who were martyred in the great Trib. And the Rev. 20: 8 saints are those who turned to God in the millennium.