A Study on the Book of James

[mjrhealth]

Bottom line. God gave us the Law. Mankind cannot live up to God's high standards because our flesh is weak. So, God took on flesh and lived a sinless life in our stead. Of course, He did a good bit more while He was here than go around, not sinning. He had quite a bit to say about sin, as I recall. Basically, He wants us not to do it.

God never gave "you" the law, it is you who insists on putting yourself under it. God is love, God created man in His image,Love, we where always meant to love one another as Adam loved God, No law required. Adam fell from grace didnt change what we where it changed the nature of our flesh. The law never eneterd in till Moses to show the "Jews" that it is impossible to save ones self, That was teh old coveneat the old law the old testament, the old wine gven only to them. Christ came full of grace, He came with the new testament, the new covenant the new wine.

Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

We are supposed to walk after the spirit as given to us by God, not follow after the flesh, mans fallen nature. How can one claim to have peace when one is troubled by the law and sin. Love does not need the law as love only does good, it is the sinner, who need the law as they do not know what is right and do not walk in love.

The law can only do one thing "condemn you" and for those who are under it as seeing in all these pages, that is exactly what it is doing. There is no grace for those who follow the law for they have rejected His good works for there own.

In all His Love

 

[Barrd]

You said: "I'm not going to repeat the same scriptures over and over again. I have already shown you that Abraham's faith was, indeed, a working faith."
You have shown what you think the scriptures mean. So have I. We don't share the same opinion. You don't seem to be able to separate law from grace.

One more time:
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Gen 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
God told Abraham...then Abram...to do something. Abram did what God had told him to do.
This was Abraham's first encounter with God.

You deceive yourself. Anyone teaching that we are under the law is saying it is for salvation.

That is your opinion. But that is not what Jesus teaches.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

We keep His commandments because we love Him. Isn't that enough of a reason?

It is a given that a child of God tries to be loving and kind towards others but to say we are under the law is to say we have do it to be saved. Breaking the law is sin! But the child of God is not under the law. They are under grace (a free gift). To say we are under the law takes away the gift and makes it based on a person's works (earned salvation).

You contradict yourself.
You know that breaking the law is sin. And yet, you still think that the law is "done away". You don't seem to understand that Grace is unmerited favor...forgiveness that we do not deserve. Forgiveness for what? Forgiveness for breaking the law. Why do we need saving? Because we have broken the law.
What law?

 

[mjrhealth]

You know that breaking the law is sin. And yet, you still think that the law is "done away

How can one calim to be "in Christ " when

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

When one is in Christ than one has put on His righteousness ( Christs), not his own and so is no longer a sinner, as you said, where there is no law there is no sin. It is you insistence on trying to keep the law that is your undoing and keeping you a slave to sin and unrighteousness. How can one be in Christ and be s sinner, is Christ a siinner, is His righteousness sin???

In all His Love

 

[H. Richard]

H.Richard:

Got a related question for you. When do you believe (based on the scripture, of course) that the covenant of grace through faith came into effect and the covenant of the law ended?

When Jesus gave Paul the gospel of God's grace. A gospel that was hidden in God and revealed to Paul. if it was a secret (hidden) in God then it had not been revealed.

God knew the Jews would not accept Jesus as their Messiah and King but He gave them ample time to change their minds. God set the nation of Israel aside, temporally when He allowed the Temple to be destroyed. God will turn back to the nation of Israel when the grace church is taken up. As anyone can see the grace church has become a religious church that is apostate as was the Jewish religion and no longer believe or teach that it is the work of Jesus on the cross, Faith in His shed blood + nothing.

 

[H. Richard]

One more time:
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Gen 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
God told Abraham...then Abram...to do something. Abram did what God had told him to do.
This was Abraham's first encounter with God.

That is your opinion. But that is not what Jesus teaches.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

We keep His commandments because we love Him. Isn't that enough of a reason?

You contradict yourself.
You know that breaking the law is sin. And yet, you still think that the law is "done away". You don't seem to understand that Grace is unmerited favor...forgiveness that we do not deserve. Forgiveness for what? Forgiveness for breaking the law. Why do we need saving? Because we have broken the law.
What law?

If the law has not been set aside under grace then you, or anyone else' do not have salvation. Why??? Because you, or anyone else, can not keep the law. But religious people think they no longer sin in the flesh.

The commandment in the gospel given to Paul is for the grace church. That commandment is to believe in Jesus' work on the cross + nothing. Today the religious add works of the law to grace and there is no salvation based on the works of man.

 

[H. Richard]

One more time:
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Gen 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.
God told Abraham...then Abram...to do something. Abram did what God had told him to do.
This was Abraham's first encounter with God.

That is your opinion. But that is not what Jesus teaches.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

We keep His commandments because we love Him. Isn't that enough of a reason?

You contradict yourself.
You know that breaking the law is sin. And yet, you still think that the law is "done away". You don't seem to understand that Grace is unmerited favor...forgiveness that we do not deserve. Forgiveness for what? Forgiveness for breaking the law. Why do we need saving? Because we have broken the law.
What law?

Only in your mind. You don't seem to understand God's grace. Yes we still sin in the flesh. But our sins do not condemn us because we are under the shed blood that paid for all our sins.

When a person places all their belief, trust, faith, confidence, in Jesus' work on the cross Gods keeps His promise and places that person "IN CHRIST",. In other words He see us
in His Son.

Grace is the Ark that is built by God. It is “”NOT”” built by human hands. It is built by the hands (will) of God. - Man can not go into the Ark that God has built by his own efforts (will). He must be placed in God’s Ark (Jesus) by God (the Holy Spirit). God places a person in the Ark (Jesus) He built when that person places their faith, trust and confidence in Jesus’ work on the cross to save him/her. -- This Ark that God has built carries those in it safely over the sins “THEY” commit in their flesh. Their sins can not touch (condemn) them.

Jesus Christ is OUR ARK, and just as those in Noah's Ark were kept from the waters of the flood, we who are placed ""in Christ,"" by God, are kept from the judgment of the law. If we are not ""in Christ"" the law condemns us.

 

[Barrd]

Maybe I'm going at this from the wrong end.
Let's start with the fact that Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary paid the price of my sin.
I have been redeemed, I am no longer under a death penalty for my sin. Is this not glorious news? Oh, happy dance, happy dance, happy dance!! I am free!
Now, does this mean that I may continue in sin?

 

[mjrhealth]

Now, does this mean that I may continue in sin?

Oh Barrd how many times must you go around the circle.

Get this Jesus died for you that you will not be

Hrichard
But our sins do not condemn us because we are under the shed blood that paid for all our sins.

You like all men upon this earth, are not perfect, if we where, Jesus would never of had to die for us. Dont you know that we are a perfect loving spirit living in an imperfect selfish, arrogant, pridefull, hatefull flesh. Dont you realise that Jesus Condemend all sin to teh flesh, By now you can figure out why.

The devil has you a slave to the law and sin. How can Jesus have set you free when you are still troubled by sin??

As for a reason to not sin, "love" God created us in His image, God is love, Jesus cave us one commandemnt to "love", Love doent run around beating up His brother, If you need teh law, tahn you dont have love,

this bit

1Co_13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co_13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

1Pe_4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

In all His Love

 

[OzSpen]

Genesis 15:4-6 According to the scriptures Abraham was accounted righteous (JUSTIFIED) before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God.

Read your Bible. Jesus was not preaching to the Gentiles. Neither was James. and Peter. They were preaching to Jews ONLY.

Richard,

When I read my Bible, I find that Matt 5:1-2 (ESV) states, 'Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him. 2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying'. The Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-7) was preached to Jesus' disciples on the mount, but Jesus was 'seeing the crowds', so his message was meant for Jews and Gentiles.

Or, are you trying to say that what Jesus taught his disciples who were Jews was not meant for Gentiles? If that is so, then much of the NT Gospels does not apply to me, a Gentile, and all of the Gentiles since Jesus.

While the Book of James is addressed 'to the twelve tribes in the Dispersion' (Jas 1:1), its message is meant for all. How do I know? If I were to take your line of reasoning and apply it across the Bible, that would mean Corinthians is only meant for the Corinthian church and nobody else, Ephesians for the Ephesian church only, etc. You will be hard pressed to convince NT scholars and Bible-believing Christians that that is the way it is.

The Books of James and Peter are messages for all Christians. How do I know? 'All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work' (2 Tim 3:16-17 ESV). While this applied primarily to the OT, Peter regarded Paul's writings as Scripture when Peter wrote, 'And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures' (2 Pet 3:15-16).

Thus Peter, in writing 'to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ' (1 Pet 1:1 ESV) - that includes all Jews and Gentiles who have believed - told them (and us) that Paul's writings were Scripture, on an equal footing with OT Scripture.

I do read my Bible and my conclusions are not the same as yours.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Way to go Oz, I wonder if those religious Jews said that to Paul as they tried to stone him to death.

The RCC was guilty of trying to keep the word of God from the people and are you doing the same? Are you trying to shut me up?

Richard,

I have never tried to shut you up. I have tried to present a view that has challenged your perspective.

Mentioning the RCC is a poisoning the well logical fallacy tactic. We cannot have a logical discussion when you engage in that kind of illogical reasoning.

Oz

 

[Barrd]

Richard,

When I read my Bible, I find that Matt 5:1-2 (ESV) states, 'Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him. 2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying'. The Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-7) was preached to Jesus' disciples on the mount, but Jesus was 'seeing the crowds', so his message was meant for Jews and Gentiles.

Or, are you trying to say that what Jesus taught his disciples who were Jews was not meant for Gentiles? If that is so, then much of the NT Gospels does not apply to me, a Gentile, and all of the Gentiles since Jesus.

While the Book of James is addressed 'to the twelve tribes in the Dispersion' (Jas 1:1), its message is meant for all. How do I know? If I were to take your line of reasoning and apply it across the Bible, that would mean Corinthians is only meant for the Corinthian church and nobody else, Ephesians for the Ephesian church only, etc. You will be hard pressed to convince NT scholars and Bible-believing Christians that that is the way it is.

The Books of James and Peter are messages for all Christians. How do I know? 'All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work' (2 Tim 3:16-17 ESV). While this applied primarily to the OT, Peter regarded Paul's writings as Scripture when Peter wrote, 'And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures' (2 Pet 3:15-16).

Thus Peter, in writing 'to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ' (1 Pet 1:1 ESV) - that includes all Jews and Gentiles who have believed - told them (and us) that Paul's writings were Scripture, on an equal footing with OT Scripture.

I do read my Bible and my conclusions are not the same as yours.

Oz

I am so glad that our precious brother, Oz, is back with us!

We missed you, Oz! Welcome home, you ol' kangaroo, you!

 

[OzSpen]

I am so glad that our precious brother, Oz, is back with us!

We missed you, Oz! Welcome home, you ol' kangaroo, you!

The Barrd,

I've been hopping down to Canberra with my wife to see our new grand-daughter, Jemima Rose. I'm not allowed to use the photo on this site. I tried and it rejected it.

We went with the flying kangaroo:

(Qantaslink Boeing 717, courtesy Wikipedia)

But we saw a couple other Australian natives on the way:

(courtesy naturescapes.net) (courtesy stumbledownunder.com)

How about paying us a visit?

Oz

 

[Barrd]

The Barrd,

I've been hopping down to Canberra with my wife to see our new grand-daughter, Jemima Rose. I'm not allowed to use the photo on this site. I tried and it rejected it.

We went with the flying kangaroo:

(Qantaslink Boeing 717, courtesy Wikipedia)

But we saw a couple other Australian natives on the way:

(courtesy naturescapes.net) (courtesy stumbledownunder.com)

How about paying us a visit?

Oz

I'm sure Jemima is as beautiful as her Grandma, and as intelligent as her ol' Grandda'...

Maybe one day I will try to hop on down to the Land Down Under.
Meantime, a big hug for you and your sweet lady...and a tummy tickle for that gorgeous new grandbaby. :wub:

 

[OzSpen]

I'm sure Jemima is as beautiful as her Grandma, and as intelligent as her ol' Grandda'...

Maybe one day I will try to hop on down to the Land Down Under.
Meantime, a big hug for you and your sweet lady...and a tummy tickle for that gorgeous new grandbaby. :wub:

The Barrd,

Thank you for your kind wishes. The tummy tickle will have to wait for Jemima until June when she visits us with her parents and sister, Eloise (age 5).

Oz

 

[H. Richard]

Maybe I'm going at this from the wrong end.
Let's start with the fact that Jesus' sacrifice at Calvary paid the price of my sin.
I have been redeemed, I am no longer under a death penalty for my sin. Is this not glorious news? Oh, happy dance, happy dance, happy dance!! I am free!
Now, does this mean that I may continue in sin?

You have answered your own question. If He paid for all your sins then are they paid for, or are they not paid for?

You said: "Now, does this mean that I may continue in sin?" You have said before that you still sin so why do you question this? If you still sin you have answered your own question.

 

[H. Richard]

Richard,

When I read my Bible, I find that Matt 5:1-2 (ESV) states, 'Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him. 2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying'. The Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5-7) was preached to Jesus' disciples on the mount, but Jesus was 'seeing the crowds', so his message was meant for Jews and Gentiles.

Or, are you trying to say that what Jesus taught his disciples who were Jews was not meant for Gentiles? If that is so, then much of the NT Gospels does not apply to me, a Gentile, and all of the Gentiles since Jesus.
I do read my Bible and my conclusions are not the same as yours.

Oz

Are you not aware that Jesus ""HIMSELF" said He did not com3e to the Gentiles. He said (in two places) that He only came to the "lost sheep of Israel"

Your idea that Jesus spoke to the Gentiles too is just your assumption and is not supported by Jesus Himself. I will post them again.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all that was written of Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8. -- But most will not believe that Matt. 10:5-7 and Matt. 15:23-24 actually means what it says. I do.

 

[Barrd]

What was the promise God made when He first called Abraham (then Abram)?

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Before Jesus was raised up to Heaven, He instructed His disciples to go unto "all nations"

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.

What do you think John the Baptist meant when he said this:

Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

And of course, you do realize that:

Luk 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Is there a contradiction here?
Not at all:

Luk 20:9 Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
Luk 20:10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
Luk 20:11 And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
Luk 20:12 And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
Luk 20:13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
Luk 20:14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
Luk 20:15 So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
Luk 20:16 He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.

Then there is the trouble about the fig tree:

Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

And we know the fate of the fig tree, don't we:

Luk 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mat 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

But no worries...we Gentiles have been grafted in:

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree

 

[OzSpen]

Are you not aware that Jesus ""HIMSELF" said He did not com3e to the Gentiles. He said (in two places) that He only came to the "lost sheep of Israel"

Your idea that Jesus spoke to the Gentiles too is just your assumption and is not supported by Jesus Himself. I will post them again.

Matt 10:5-7 (NKJ)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Matt 15:23-24 (NKJ)
23 But He answered her not a word. And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, "Send her away, for she cries out after us."
24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul said: Rom 15:8 (NKJ)
8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Note that in Matt 10:5-7 and Matt 15:23-24 Jesus said He did not come EXCEPT to the house of Israel. Jesus came to confirm/fulfill all that was written of Him in the O.T. His mission was to the Jews, not to the Gentiles. This is what Paul meant in Rom 15:8. -- But most will not believe that Matt. 10:5-7 and Matt. 15:23-24 actually means what it says. I do.

Richard,

Your view seems myopic. Jesus did minister to Gentiles. See, 'Did Jesus come only for the Jews and not the Gentiles?' (GotQuestions?) His death was for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2 ESV) - and that includes all Gentiles.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

You have answered your own question. If He paid for all your sins then are they paid for, or are they not paid for?

You said: "Now, does this mean that I may continue in sin?" You have said before that you still sin so why do you question this? If you still sin you have answered your own question.

There seem to be 2 issues at stake with this kind of comment:

1. Which sins were cancelled for the unbeliever when he/she repented? To which sins did Jesus' death apply? (1 Jn 2:2 ESV)
2. What is the nature of sins committed after salvation for which forgiveness is needed? (1 Jn 1:9 ESV)

Since this is a study in the Book of James, one of these issues is addressed in James 4:17 (ESV), 'So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin'.

Oz

 

[Barrd]

Richard,

Your view seems myopic. Jesus did minister to Gentiles. See, 'Did Jesus come only for the Jews and not the Gentiles?' (GotQuestions?) His death was for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2 ESV) - and that includes all Gentiles.

Oz

Oh, Oz!
I did a whole "wall'o'text" to explain what it took you a couple of lines!

Perhaps I ought to go back to bed...