A Study on the Book of James

[H. Richard]

The study: Was James confused? Or was he still preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, which included the Law?

James 2:20-21
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
(NKJ)

FACT! No, Abraham was not!　 ---- according to the scriptures He was accounted righteous (JUSTIFIED) before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God.

Genesis 15:4-6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ)

FACT! God accounted him righteous solely for his faith in His Promises, and not by anything that he did.　 There is nothing in Genesis 15 that mentions any works that Abraham did. Paul accurately reports this.　 It seems that James did not consider the account in Genesis 15.　 It was not until Genesis 22, many years after Isaac was born, when Abraham was well over 100 years old, that he agreed to offer Isaac.

James writes:
22　 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
23　 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

FACT! Neither of those last two statements jives with the Genesis 15:4-6 account. Nowhere does the OT Scripture say that Abraham "was called God's friend" BECAUSE he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. In Isaiah 41:8 it states that God called Abraham His friend but nowhere in the context of the chapter does He say it was because Abraham offered up his son Isaac.

FACT! What James wrote, as shown above, is a direct contradiction of the Gospel that Paul taught and the account given in Genesis 15:4-6. Abraham was righteous before God solely because he believed God’s promises.

In my opinion the book of James is devoid of the gospel of grace as taught by Paul. However, it was completely compatible with the law of Moses. Since the word of God has to be based on truth, I find the book of James is not meant to be used as a book directed to the grace church. It is only truth to those under the Law of Moses, the Jews.

Here are some more facts that support my opinion. I find them interesting.
-
1. The word “Law” is found in 18 places
2. The word “grace” is found in 2 places
3. The word “Christ” is found in 2 places
4. The word “Justified” is found in 2 place with the words “by works” after them
5. The words “by faith” is found 1 time (justified by works and not by faith only)
6. The word “cross” is not found
7. The word “reconciled” is not found
8. The word “sanctified” is not found
9. The word “saved” is not found
10. The words “in Christ” are not found
11. The shed blood of Jesus on the cross is not mentioned.

 

[Barrd]

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee...

Abraham was 75 years old when he got this call from God to leave his home and everything he knew, and go to a strange land. But he did as God had told him. Faith? You betcha. Proven by...oh, do I have to say it?

Abraham was not just sitting around the tent going "I have faith. I have faith. I have faith."

No. Abraham proved his faith by his...c'mon, class, say it with me...his works.

 

[Barrd]

James was an Apostle, chosen by Jesus Christ, Himself.
Let's not call him "confused". To claim that Jesus' own Apostle was "confused" is dangerously close to blasphemy, in my humble opinion.

 

[Barrd]

Did Paul really teach that the law had been "done away", as so many people think?

What do you say, Paul?


Paul kept the law himself:

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Act 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all.
Act 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul says that doers of the law shall be justified:

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


Here Paul says, not once, but twice, that we learn what sin is from the law:

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Here is a key scripture where Paul states that our faith does not make the law void, as some seem to think. Rather, our faith establishes the law.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

And again:

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

C'mon, Paul! Tell us what you really think of the Law!

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I've heard some folks say that the law is carnal...but Paul says no.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Once more, Paul...what do you really think of the Law of God? We need to know!

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Does this sound as if Paul were teaching that the law had been abolished?

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


Uh...Paul says "no"...

 

[Barrd]

So...given that James is not crazy, and that Abraham, who was then Abram did do something to show his faith, and Paul did not preach against the law, but affirmed it....what do we have?

We have grace.

How so?

Grace is unmerited favor, or so I've been told. It is God's mercy toward sinners.

What is a sinner?

Simple.

A sinner is someone who has broken one or more of God's laws...

 

[H. Richard]

(-----)

Way to go Barrd!, not one word about the FACTS brought up in the study. Just a lot of words that simply ignore what was written in the study.

Since there is no way to rebut the facts given, I see this as just many words put up as a smoke screen over the facts brought out in the study. It is such a pity that religious people can't get out of the box that their religion puts them in.

 

[Barrd]

The study: Was James confused? Or was he still preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, which included the Law?

James 2:20-21
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
(NKJ)

FACT! No, Abraham was not!　 ---- according to the scriptures He was accounted righteous (JUSTIFIED) before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God.

Genesis 15:4-6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ)

The problem is that you didn't go back far enough.
At the risk of repeating myself (and maybe you'll actually read what I post this time)...

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee...

Abraham was 75 years old when he got this call from God to leave his home and everything he knew, and go to a strange land. But he did as God had told him. Faith? You betcha. Proven by...oh, do I have to say it?

Abraham was not just sitting around the tent going "I have faith. I have faith. I have faith."

No. Abraham proved his faith by his...c'mon, class, say it with me...his works.

 

[James W]

The problem is that you didn't go back far enough.
At the risk of repeating myself (and maybe you'll actually read what I post this time)...

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee...

Abraham was 75 years old when he got this call from God to leave his home and everything he knew, and go to a strange land. But he did as God had told him. Faith? You betcha. Proven by...oh, do I have to say it?

Abraham was not just sitting around the tent going "I have faith. I have faith. I have faith."

No. Abraham proved his faith by his...c'mon, class, say it with me...his works.

Amen !!! For ------------
Faith will Always be followed by a corresponding Action. Rather it needs to be !! That corresponding action is works. It will be in our words and actions and reactions. I have a question - why do people spend so much time trying to find errors in the most Holy written word of God instead of Oh lets say learning it?
Blessings
James

 

[Barrd]

Amen !!! For ------------
Faith will Always be followed by a corresponding Action. Rather it needs to be !! That corresponding action is works. It will be in our words and actions and reactions. I have a question - why do people spend so much time trying to find errors in the most Holy written word of God instead of Oh lets say learning it?
Blessings
James

Learning it?
Hmmm.....
Learning it!

What a concept! Yeah! We all need to try just learning it, for a change, instead of trying to pick it apart.
Learning it! That might actually make a difference in people's lives!

Thank you, James!
And God bless you, Brother!

 

[H. Richard]

Barrd, you still haven't confronted the FACTS listed in the study and I realize you will not do it. Below is just one of them;

FACT! No, Abraham was not!　 ---- according to the scriptures He was accounted righteous (JUSTIFIED) before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God.

Genesis 15:4-6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ) ------ The above states WHEN God accounted Abraham as righteous and it was before Abraham offered up his son. Can't you see it? In Genesis 15 he was accounted as righteous, NOT in Genesis 22. Confront the facts.

Abraham WAS not accounted as righteous by doing anything but believing God. That is what the scripture states and I will believe the scripture.

The scriptures do not support James. James says Abraham was accounted as righteous when he (Abraham) offered up hi son in Genesis 22 and that is not what the scriptures say.

But you can go your way I am through arguing with you. .

 

[Barrd]

Barrd, you still haven't confronted the FACTS listed in the study and I realize you will not do it. Below is just one of them;

FACT! No, Abraham was not!　 ---- according to the scriptures He was accounted righteous (JUSTIFIED) before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God.

Genesis 15:4-6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ) ------ The above states WHEN God accounted Abraham as righteous and it was before Abraham offered up his son. Can't you see it? In Genesis 15 he was accounted as righteous, NOT in Genesis 22. Confront the facts.

Abraham WAS not accounted as righteous by doing anything but believing God. That is what the scripture states and I will believe the scripture.

The scriptures do not support James. James says Abraham was accounted as righteous when he (Abraham) offered up hi son in Genesis 22 and that is not what the scriptures say.

But you can go your way I am through arguing with you. .

You have refused to consider the scripture I posted, which shows Abraham proving his faith by his response to God's call:

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee...

Do you really think that, by refusing to acknowledge this scripture that it will just fade away?
Do you really think that you can just dismiss me from this thread? This is a public forum. You may ignore me, but I will continue to post here for the sake of others who may read.

You have made an assertion that I have shown to be false. The fact is that you made an error, and you are not happy with me because I corrected you.

The proper response would be "Oh, I hadn't seen that before. Thank you for showing that to me."

Its not as if I haven't made a mistake or two in my time, either. We all have. I do not try to cover myself by dismissing the person who shows me my mistake. The better choice would be to dismiss the mistake...

 

[H. Richard]

You have refused to consider the scripture I posted, which shows Abraham proving his faith by his response to God's call:

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee...

Do you really think that, by refusing to acknowledge this scripture that it will just fade away?
Do you really think that you can just dismiss me from this thread? This is a public forum. You may ignore me, but I will continue to post here for the sake of others who may read.

You have made an assertion that I have shown to be false. The fact is that you made an error, and you are not happy with me because I corrected you.

The proper response would be "Oh, I hadn't seen that before. Thank you for showing that to me."

Its not as if I haven't made a mistake or two in my time, either. We all have. I do not try to cover myself by dismissing the person who shows me my mistake. The better choice would be to dismiss the mistake...

You sure do have a high opinion of yourself don't you. By the way, how have you "corrected me"? Your not my teacher and I certainly do not see things as you do and that does not make you right or my teacher.

Since you think you are God's voice then tell me what the parable of the "barren Fig Tree" means in detail. Then do it again for the parable of the "wedding feast".

Since you feel you are teaching me and your knowledge is greater than mine this should not be to hard for you to do.

Luke 13:6
6 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
NKJV

Matt 22:1-2
22 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said:
2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son,
NKJV

 

[Barrd]

You sure do have a high opinion of yourself don't you. By the way, how have you "corrected me"? Your not my teacher and I certainly do not see things as you do and that does not make you right or my teacher.

Since you think you are God's voice then tell me what the parable of the "barren Fig Tree" means in detail. Then do it again for the parable of the "wedding feast".

Since you feel you are teaching me and your knowledge is greater than mine this should not be to hard for you to do.

Luke 13:6
6 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
NKJV

Matt 22:1-2
22 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said:
2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son,
NKJV

I have to remember that this is the internet, and communication is kinda limited.
I never intended to come off as some great teacher. I will be the first to tell you...I am no scholar. I'm just a hack writer from Alabama.

I know I have said that dozens of times in these threads.

I'm only trying to show you an error. You, like many people, seem to have the idea that Abraham was just sitting around, having faith, never having backed that faith up with action. "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

There was a very great deal more to Abraham's story than just his willingness to sacrifice his son at God's request. Abraham and God go back a long way before that incident...away back to his homeland, where he had lived all his life among his family and friends. Abraham, who was then Abram, was 75 years old at that time...but his adventures were just beginning...

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
....
Gen 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

Now, a man leaving the only home he had known for 75 years is not exactly a common occurrence, even today. It took courage for Abram to make such a move. Courage...and something else.
Faith.
Abram believed God, and he acted on his faith. His actions showed his faith.

As I believe I told you, I have made my share of mistakes...I am certainly not "the voice of God".

And neither are you...but who knows? Maybe one day you will be able to correct an error in me.
God give me the grace to accept correction with gratitude, the way a Christian ought to behave...

 

[Barrd]

Since you asked, I will do my best with the parables you asked about.
WARNING: I am not a great teacher, nor am I the voice of God.
And deciphering a parable is a bit different than pointing out a plain verse.
But I'll give it a shot.
Please don't hesitate to correct me if you see an error...

Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Okay...well, the "certain man" would be God. The fig tree usually represents Israel.
The dresser of the vineyard would be the One Who feeds and waters the tree...that, of course, would be Jesus.
The three years is significant...Jesus had been doing His thing for about three years, and God had come looking for the fruits of repentance for three years...but He found none. His ax was laid at the root of the tree...
But Jesus, the vine dresser, pleads for more time.

We can also take this in a personal sense. God is patient...but his patience does have a limit...

 

[Barrd]

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
Mat 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
Mat 22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
Mat 22:5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
Mat 22:6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
Mat 22:7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
Mat 22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
Mat 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Mmm...
Okay. Once again, the King is God the Father, and the son, of course, is Jesus Christ.
God has arranged a wedding feast for His Son, and the guests who had been invited, of course, were the Jews.
The servants who were sent with the invitation were the prophets...as the parable says, the Jews did not heed the invitation. They spitefully used the prophets, even killing them.
And God became angry. The Jews would be destroyed as a nation.
He told His servants to go out into the highways and byways and invite as many as they might find to the marriage feast.
Everyone is invited to the marriage feast.
All that is necessary is to accept the Lord's invitation.

Oh, the wedding garment. Yeah.
The King provides each of us with a covering. But one guy showed up in his usual covering...his filthy rags.
That guy got tossed out on his...um...pride.

Okay, so I'm not terribly good at this...but I think I got the gist of it.
Once again, if you see what you think is an error (and I'm fairly sure you will), please tell me. Perhaps we can teach one another...

 

[James W]

Learning it?
Hmmm.....
Learning it!

What a concept! Yeah! We all need to try just learning it, for a change, instead of trying to pick it apart.
Learning it! That might actually make a difference in people's lives!

Thank you, James!
And God bless you, Brother!

Amen for any time we find error or fault in the word - well it is a word fault in us. The error is in our understanding of His written word.
Blessings
James

 

[H. Richard]

Since you asked, I will do my best with the parables you asked about.
WARNING: I am not a great teacher, nor am I the voice of God.
And deciphering a parable is a bit different than pointing out a plain verse.
But I'll give it a shot.
Please don't hesitate to correct me if you see an error...

Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

Okay...well, the "certain man" would be God. The fig tree usually represents Israel.
The dresser of the vineyard would be the One Who feeds and waters the tree...that, of course, would be Jesus.
The three years is significant...Jesus had been doing His thing for about three years, and God had come looking for the fruits of repentance for three years...but He found none. His ax was laid at the root of the tree...
But Jesus, the vine dresser, pleads for more time.

We can also take this in a personal sense. God is patient...but his patience does have a limit...

Try it this way;

The certain man is Jesus (God) while on this earth in Israel.

The dresser of his vineyard are the 12 Apostles

Jesus was 3 years in Israel seeking to give the nation of Israel a kingdom and a king.

40 years is a time period used by God many times in the O.T.

The Jewish Temple was destroyed in 70 AD. Jesus was put to death around 30 AD. - about 40 years.

After Jesus was crucified the Apostles had about 40 years to get Israel to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King. We see this in the preaching of Peter and Stephen.

After the 40 years Jesus set aside the nation of Israel and has reached out to the Gentiles with a gospel of grace that does not include the law.

Perhaps the same idea but with different players

 

[H. Richard]

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
Mat 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
Mat 22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
Mat 22:5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
Mat 22:6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
Mat 22:7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
Mat 22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
Mat 22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
Mat 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Mmm...
Okay. Once again, the King is God the Father, and the son, of course, is Jesus Christ.
God has arranged a wedding feast for His Son, and the guests who had been invited, of course, were the Jews.
The servants who were sent with the invitation were the prophets...as the parable says, the Jews did not heed the invitation. They spitefully used the prophets, even killing them.
And God became angry. The Jews would be destroyed as a nation.
He told His servants to go out into the highways and byways and invite as many as they might find to the marriage feast.
Everyone is invited to the marriage feast.
All that is necessary is to accept the Lord's invitation.

Oh, the wedding garment. Yeah.
The King provides each of us with a covering. But one guy showed up in his usual covering...his filthy rags.
That guy got tossed out on his...um...pride.

Okay, so I'm not terribly good at this...but I think I got the gist of it.
Once again, if you see what you think is an error (and I'm fairly sure you will), please tell me. Perhaps we can teach one another...

You got it right but the conclusion is not quite the same as I see it.

I see that the only requirement for those that did come was to wear the wedding garments that the king gave them (they didn't have to earn them). No other requirement has been mentioned. The one thrown out did not want what was offered to him as a gift but instead wanted to wear his own garments, which as you said were filthy rags .
The wedding garment equals the righteousness that was freely given without works. But the one thrown out refused the righteousness that was freely given out of God's grace and wanted his own righteousness to be accepted.

all In all you did a good job considering you say we have to obey laws.

 

[H. Richard]

I have to remember that this is the internet, and communication is kinda limited.
I never intended to come off as some great teacher. I will be the first to tell you...I am no scholar. I'm just a hack writer from Alabama.

I know I have said that dozens of times in these threads.

I'm only trying to show you an error. You, like many people, seem to have the idea that Abraham was just sitting around, having faith, never having backed that faith up with action. "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

There was a very great deal more to Abraham's story than just his willingness to sacrifice his son at God's request. Abraham and God go back a long way before that incident...away back to his homeland, where he had lived all his life among his family and friends. Abraham, who was then Abram, was 75 years old at that time...but his adventures were just beginning...

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
....
Gen 12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

Now, a man leaving the only home he had known for 75 years is not exactly a common occurrence, even today. It took courage for Abram to make such a move. Courage...and something else.
Faith.
Abram believed God, and he acted on his faith. His actions showed his faith.

As I believe I told you, I have made my share of mistakes...I am certainly not "the voice of God".

And neither are you...but who knows? Maybe one day you will be able to correct an error in me.
God give me the grace to accept correction with gratitude, the way a Christian ought to behave...

Don't you think that Abraham had faith before he moved. Without faith he would never have moved. His faith is what God saw. God would never have told him to move if he hadn't seen his faith. -- therefore it was not that he moved, it was because God saw his faith.

The scriptures tell us that "without faith it is impossible to please God".

 

[Barrd]

Don't you think that Abraham had faith before he moved. Without faith he would never have moved. His faith is what God saw. God would never have told him to move if he hadn't seen his faith. -- therefore it was not that he moved, it was because God saw his faith.

The scriptures tell us that "without faith it is impossible to please God".

Yes, he had faith. That's the whole point...he acted on his faith. As James put it, he showed his faith by his works.

Here's a thought...his faith caused him to obey God...and that is why it was counted to him as righteousness. We know that faith alone is not enough...after all, the devil believes in Him, and trembles.