A SURE SALVATION

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Ezra

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You are saying that if one doesn't give Christ their life proves they werent saved.
That's a false gospel we are to only believe the gospel and place our faith in Christ and his redemption.
what do we give him when we get saved? i mean seriously granted there is a growth progress and not everyone on the same level .. still there should be evidence of Change which is exactly what Jesus said to bring forth fruit meet for repentance.. he is saying you say your saved.. lets see some kind of evidence . paul covered that in Romans 6 . to place our faith in Christ and his redemption.. mean we have become a new creation in Christ.

no were not going to do everything right.. but we do want put forth a effort ..now to be fair to you.. if i am missing something on your part of not giving our life to Christ.. please explain.. YOU ARE A CHALLENGE

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?


2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:


9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.


10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.


11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.


14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. ( right here is the change )


18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.


20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.


21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.


22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
 

Ezra

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I did read
Yes we are made free from sin, but you say if we dont turn from sin and show it by our lives, we cant say we are saved. You are adding works to the gospel. That goes beyond just believing the gospel that Christ died for our sins and rose for our justification.
I DISAGREE on that part there is and will be and should be a change it starts inward then moves outward.. its part of our sanctification. what would folks say if i still smoked weed and drank beer every weekend . except Sunday..
 

Doug

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Let me be clear, because I am sure you do not understand Paul's message as a complete package. The believer is justified by faith apart from obeying the law, their righteousness is faith in Christ. But Paul is writing to believers, new creations as he put it. People who have the indwelling Holy Spirit. And, even if you do not agree, Paul states the law is now in gentiles hearts, meaning, in a believers heart they desire to live as God wants them to live in their heart(the flesh is another matter)
It is impossible for such a person, to carry on living a wanton lifestyle of sin, and Paul confirms this for he preaches Holy living, gives warnings to believers as to their behaviour, tells people if they are a slave to sin it leads to death, and stresses by following the truth of his message sin shall no longer be a persons master. If you only want to pick and choose which of parts of Paul's message you want to accept and which parts you want to ignore, that is your right, but others refuse to join you
Ok now I understand where you are coming from
We are justified solely by faith in Christ
Now being saved we arent to continue in sin. Weare to reckon ourselves dead to sin
 

Doug

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what do we give him when we get saved? i mean seriously granted there is a growth progress and not everyone on the same level .. still there should be evidence of Change which is exactly what Jesus said to bring forth fruit meet for repentance.. he is saying you say your saved.. lets see some kind of evidence . paul covered that in Romans 6 . to place our faith in Christ and his redemption.. mean we have become a new creation in Christ.

no were not going to do everything right.. but we do want put forth a effort ..now to be fair to you.. if i am missing something on your part of not giving our life to Christ.. please explain.. YOU ARE A CHALLENGE

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?


2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?


4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:


9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.


10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.


11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.


14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. ( right here is the change )


18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.


20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.


21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.


22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
I agree
Justified by faith in Christ
Being justified we arent to continue in sin but reckon ourselves dead to sin
 

Doug

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I DISAGREE on that part there is and will be and should be a change it starts inward then moves outward.. its part of our sanctification. what would folks say if i still smoked weed and drank beer every weekend . except Sunday..
What brand of beer?
 

Ezra

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Weare to reckon ourselves dead to sin
its what we all been saying to you.. maybe i dont fully understand your point .. my point is when we get saved there will be a change .. nobody does a complete turn around . paul when he was converted no longer persecuted Christians . there has to be a want to and desire.
 

Doug

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its what we all been saying to you.. maybe i dont fully understand your point .. my point is when we get saved there will be a change .. nobody does a complete turn around . paul when he was converted no longer persecuted Christians . there has to be a want to and desire.
I will tell you what I believe.
We are justified by faith in Christ, by faith in his redemption, his shed blood, his imputed righteousness.
Being justified we should not continue in sin. We should know who we are in Christ, we are crucified with him, buried and risen again in .
We should obey the commands given thru Paul that will result in behavior pleasing to God
 

Doug

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its what we all been saying to you.. maybe i dont fully understand your point .. my point is when we get saved there will be a change .. nobody does a complete turn around . paul when he was converted no longer persecuted Christians . there has to be a want to and desire.
Its not up to us to determine if someone is saved based on their behavior.
If someone claims to be saved and they are sinning, then scripture should be presented to rebuke them and see if they repent.
 

Ezra

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We should obey the commands given thru Paul that will result in behavior pleasing to God

just paul ? we have the 4 gospels we have peter john jude peter has lots of good meat also
 

Ezra

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If someone claims to be saved and they are sinning, then scripture should be presented to rebuke them and see if they repent.
lets turn the tables " see if they repent." so what if they fail to repent? what does that say ?once again in Jesus word to the pharisees and sadducees. bring forth fruit meet for repentance AND PLEASE DONT CUT OUT THIS SAYING IT DON'T APPLY. IT DOES APPLY .if were saved there will be some type change . actually were not judging them .they are judging themselves

Matthew 7:18 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. if we are attached to the true vine there will be fruit.. it may be baby fruit

what would you say to a preacher who hit the nightclubs fri sat night drinking and what ever else. then go to the pulpit on Sunday and preach.. yes we will sin and hopefully the above example would never happen. there has to be repentance



 

Doug

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just paul ? we have the 4 gospels we have peter john jude peter has lots of good meat also
Paul is our apostle and Jesus gave him the doctrine and instructions for the church in this dispensation.
I obey Jesus's commands if they are restated in Paul otherwise I need to determine who was commanded
Here is an example of where Jesus's command is also found in Paul....................[John 15:12 KJV] "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
[Romans 13:8 KJV] "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

All scripture is profitable for learning but it has to evaluated whether it can apply to us or how it should be applied.
An example where this passage applies to believing Israel not me............[1 Peter 2:9 KJV] "But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:".................Only Israel was promised to be a priesthood but I can apply being called out of darkness, because it is found in Paul..............[Ephesians 5:8 KJV] "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:"
 

Doug

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lets turn the tables " see if they repent." so what if they fail to repent?
Apply this verse............[1 Corinthians 5:11 KJV] "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."
 

Doug

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what would you say to a preacher who hit the nightclubs fri sat night drinking and what ever else. then go to the pulpit on Sunday and preach.. yes we will sin and hopefully the above example would never happen. there has to be repentance
Give him these verses and if he doesnt repent tell him he isnt qualified to be a bishop...................
[1 Timothy 3:2 KJV] "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"
[Titus 1:7 KJV] "For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;"
 

Ezra

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Give him these verses and if he doesnt repent tell him he isnt qualified to be a bishop...................
[1 Timothy 3:2 KJV] "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;"
[Titus 1:7 KJV] "For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;"
could you say the same for just a reg church christian doing same ? BTW i agree with you on this..
 

Ezra

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Paul is our apostle and Jesus gave him the doctrine and instructions for the church in this dispensation.
I obey Jesus's commands if they are restated in Paul otherwise I need to determine who was commanded
Here is an example of where Jesus's command is also found in Paul....................[John 15:12 KJV] "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
[Romans 13:8 KJV] "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

All scripture is profitable for learning but it has to evaluated whether it can apply to us or how it should be applied.
An example where this passage applies to believing Israel not me............[1 Peter 2:9 KJV] "But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:".................Only Israel was promised to be a priesthood but I can apply being called out of darkness, because it is found in Paul..............[Ephesians 5:8 KJV] "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:"
so we shouldn't have anything to do with peter writing Jude Hebrews 1 john etc all scripture applies to us
 

Doug

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could you say the same for just a reg church christian doing same ? BTW i agree with you on this..
They are to be put away............
[1 Corinthians 5:9 KJV] "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:"
[1 Corinthians 5:10 KJV] "Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world."
[1 Corinthians 5:11 KJV] "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."
[1 Corinthians 5:12 KJV] "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?"
[1 Corinthians 5:13 KJV] "But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

[2 Thessalonians 3:14 KJV] "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed."
[2 Thessalonians 3:15 KJV] "Yet count [him] not as an enemy, but admonish [him] as a brother."
 

Doug

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so we shouldn't have anything to do with peter writing Jude Hebrews 1 john etc all scripture applies to us
I didnt say that
I gave you an example from Peter that had to separate as to what applies to me. We can learn from all scripture