A SURE SALVATION

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Doug

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[Romans 5:1 KJV] "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:"
[Romans 5:9 KJV] "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
[Romans 5:11 KJV] "And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement."

How can it be said we can lose salvation. These verses compel us to believe what they say. Being justified by faith; being now justified by his blood; now received the atonement. Our justification is firmly established now.
 
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bdavidc

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How can it be said we can lose salvation. These verses compel us to believe what they say. Being justified by faith; being now justified by his blood; now received the atonement. Our justification is firmly established now.
That statement is rock solid for people who are truly born again. Thanks for the reminder. Romans 5 does not stutter. “Being justified by faith, we have peace with God” ~Romans 5:1. “Being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath” ~Romans 5:9. “We have now received the atonement” ~Romans 5:11. That is settled business. God does not write in pencil and erase in ink.

But here is where people get hurt. Plenty shout “Christian” and never met Christ. Jesus said it Himself, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord… I never knew you” ~Matthew 7:21,23. He did not say, “I knew you and dropped you.” He said, “I never knew you.” That is not lost salvation. That is false conversion and false conversion is so dangerous.

Real faith changes a man. “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature” ~2 Corinthians 5:17. No change, no fruit, no repentance means no new life. You can sit in church, carry a Bible, talk theology, and still be lost as a goose in a snowstorm.

This promise is sweet comfort for the redeemed, but it is a warning flare for pretenders. Scripture says, “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith” ~2 Corinthians 13:5. Justification is secure. Fake faith is fatal for ever if not recognized.

So we need to be careful not to hand out assurance where Scripture gives none, especially to those living comfortably in open sin, because the Bible calls them to repentance, not reassurance ~1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
 
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Doug

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But here is where people get hurt. Plenty shout “Christian” and never met Christ. Jesus said it Himself, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord… I never knew you” ~Matthew 7:21,23. He did not say, “I knew you and dropped you.” He said, “I never knew you.” That is not lost salvation. That is false conversion and false conversion is so dangerous.
Sorry but you are using this verse inappropriately, Here is the verse........ [Matthew 7:21 KJV] "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."........Jesus is speaking to Israel. Israel had to do his will to enter the earthly kingdom on earth and reign with him for a thousand years.
 

Doug

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Real faith changes a man. “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature” ~2 Corinthians 5:17. No change, no fruit, no repentance means no new life. You can sit in church, carry a Bible, talk theology, and still be lost as a goose in a snowstorm.
We should know who we are in Christ and act accordingly to please God, but our actions dont cause us to lose salvation, look at the Corinthian's aberrant behavior, yet they were in Christ.
We arent to judge if one is a Christian by their behavior, that was said for Israel to know who a true believer in the tribulation was.
 

bdavidc

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Sorry but you are using this verse inappropriately, Here is the verse........ [Matthew 7:21 KJV] "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."........Jesus is speaking to Israel. Israel had to do his will to enter the earthly kingdom on earth and reign with him for a thousand years.

That is dodging the plain words of Jesus. Show me where Jesus says, “I am only talking to Israel about a millennial reward.” You cannot, because He did not.

Jesus says destruction versus life. “Broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction.” “Narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life” ~Matthew 7:13-14. That is not a thousand-year participation trophy. That is salvation and judgment.

You say, “They had to do His will.” Jesus tells you what the will of God is. “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent” ~John 6:29. “This is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life” ~John 6:40. Do you believe Jesus or do you believe your system?

And you are skipping the dagger in the text. “I never knew you” ~Matthew 7:23. Never. Not “I knew you and dropped you.” Not “I knew you under Israel and you missed the kingdom.” Never knew you. That is false conversion. That is a man using God’s name while living for himself.

Why do you keep trying to move Christ’s warnings onto someone else? Is it because you do not want these words landing on your own conscience? Is it because you want a Bible that never looks you in the eye? Is it because you would rather protect your framework than tremble at God’s Word?

Jesus is not impressed with your “Lord, Lord.” He is not impressed with your talk. He is not impressed with your works list. He is after the heart. He is after truth in the inward parts.

You can quote verses and still be lost. You can preach and still be a stranger to Christ. You can use theology to hide from God. “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof” ~2 Timothy 3:5. “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth” ~2 Timothy 3:7.

The end of man is not happiness. The end is God’s glory. And God will not share His glory with your clever escape routes. “God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble” ~James 4:6.

So here is the question. Are you submitting to what is written, or are you editing Christ to fit your grid? Are you seeking God’s glory, or are you seeking to be right in front of men? Are you known by Christ, or are you merely noisy about Christ?

Stop twisting the warning. Stop hiding behind “Israel.” Stop teaching what Scripture does not say.

Repent. Bow. Submit to Jesus Christ as Lord because He is worthy. “Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way” ~Psalm 2:12.
 

Ezra

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[Romans 5:1 KJV] "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:"
[Romans 5:9 KJV] "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."
[Romans 5:11 KJV] "And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement."

How can it be said we can lose salvation. These verses compel us to believe what they say. Being justified by faith; being now justified by his blood; now received the atonement. Our justification is firmly established now.
the argument /disagreement comes from those living in unrepentant sin saying there still saved.. we all sin fall short but they key is do we get back up and start all over again. i like how jay Vernon McGee says it.. the prodigal son after a period of time.. got out of the pig pen and come home. if we will note in the prodigal story .the father stood out in the road/yard watched everyday for him to come home.. when he did he embraced him put a robe on home shoes on his feet a ring.. he didn't scold him ..he had learned through the great fall.. that's the key getting back up.


those who fail to get back up was they truly saved to start with. Lord knows the falls Ive taken and had get back up
 
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Ezra

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So we need to be careful not to hand out assurance where Scripture gives none, especially to those living comfortably in open sin, because the Bible calls them to repentance, not reassurance ~1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
i can agree with you for the most. in a church service after i finished the message. i had a young man come to me crying telling me his woes needing forgiven.. i listened then told him there was nothing I could do for him.. would he like go to the altar pray ask Christ into his heart. he did he cried out i thought great he got saved.. he stayed with us about 3 weeks then vanished of course he came with his girl friend i told him he need to end the live in status with her. most likely that seed fell by the wayside or thorns . he was 13 inches from being saved. i asked from his head
 
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Ezra

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.. [Matthew 7:21 KJV] "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."........Jesus is speaking to Israel. Israel had to do his will to enter the earthly kingdom on earth and reign with him for a thousand years.
no im sry to say your out of context
 

Ezra

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We should know who we are in Christ and act accordingly to please God, but our actions dont cause us to lose salvation, look at the Corinthian's aberrant behavior, yet they were in Christ.
We arent to judge if one is a Christian by their behavior, that was said for Israel to know who a true believer in the tribulation was.
you make a good case but still misting a few parts i agree on this < We aren't to judge if one is a Christian by their behavior,>

disagree on this < that was said for Israel to know who a true believer in the tribulation was.> most certainly we do have to be careful who we say is saved and who is not.. a good tree will bring forth good fruit.. a bad tree bad fruit.. jesus said bring forth fruit meet for repentance .. there should be evidence we changed.. will we fall? fail ? yes the Good news is we have a advocate . the best lawyer there is
 

Doug

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That is dodging the plain words of Jesus. Show me where Jesus says, “I am only talking to Israel about a millennial reward.” You cannot, because He did not.
Jesus is talking about entering the kingdom of heaven, which is the millennial kingdom in which believing Israel will reign as priests. He couldnt be speaking to anyone else.
 

Doug

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You say, “They had to do His will.”
His will also is reflected by what was required of Israel to enter the kingdom on earth.................[Luke 12:45 KJV] "But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;"
[Luke 12:47 KJV] "And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not [himself], neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes]."...................they had to watch and be ready for his return
 

Doug

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the argument /disagreement comes from those living in unrepresented sin saying there still saved..
This idea stems not from Paul in this dispensation of grace but from Jesus saying.........[Matthew 7:20 KJV] "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.".............Israel was to judge who were false prophets and brethren among them, This was not meant for us
Look at the Corinthian church's behavior, yet Paul did not say they were not saved
 

Doug

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no im sry to say your out of context
I will repeat my answer ............Jesus is talking about entering the kingdom of heaven, which is the millennial kingdom in which believing Israel will reign as priests. He couldnt be speaking to anyone else.
 

Ezra

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Israel was to judge who were false prophets and brethren among them,
ISRAEL IS NOT IN THE PICTURE THEY HAVE TO COME TO Christ jesus way truth life /born again . they are not connected to the vine. only those truly saved are.. God will graft them back in eventually. everything is to the Body of Christ which has many members . the nation Israel does not recognize Jesus as savior /messiah , they are blinded at this moment . i am not understanding your Israel point
 

Ezra

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I will repeat my answer ............Jesus is talking about entering the kingdom of heaven, which is the millennial kingdom in which believing Israel will reign as priests. He couldnt be speaking to anyone else.
without locking horns and beating chest of who is right and who is wrong.. were just going to have to agree we disagree . because none of the Israel lines up with my studies
 

Doug

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We aren't to judge if one is a Christian by their behavior,>
Yes right
If we willfully sin we will have consequences here and lose reward at the judgement seat, but all our sin is forgiven by Christ's redemption
 

Ezra

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Yes right
If we willfully sin we will have consequences here and lose reward at the judgement seat, but all our sin is forgiven by Christ's redemption
but a true blue will repent >? turn from change their mind.. God will prick our heart
 

Doug

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disagree on this < that was said for Israel to know who a true believer in the tribulation was.> most certainly we do have to be careful who we say is saved and who is not.. a good tree will bring forth good fruit.. a bad tree bad fruit.. jesus said bring forth fruit meet for repentance .. there should be evidence we changed.. will we fall? fail ? yes the Good news is we have a advocate . the best lawyer there is
You are reflecting what I said in a previous post. We dont have to determine who is saved. You are taking what Jesus said to Israel and applying it to the church in this dispensation and yourself. Jesus said this to Israel, not you...........[Matthew 7:20 KJV] "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.".......they would know false prophets and false brethren
 

Doug

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ISRAEL IS NOT IN THE PICTURE THEY HAVE TO COME TO Christ jesus way truth life /born again . they are not connected to the vine. only those truly saved are.. God will graft them back in eventually. everything is to the Body of Christ which has many members . the nation Israel does not recognize Jesus as savior /messiah , they are blinded at this moment . i am not understanding your Israel point
These threads are off the cuff
If I say Israel, I am only distinguishing it from us the church the body of Christ, It pertains to the remnant of believing Israel
I should have been more specific, sorry
 

Ezra

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..[Matthew 7:20 KJV] "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.".......they would know false prophets and false brethren
and we apply the same thing its we will know ..same as have a unction