A Terrific TRINITY Passage of Scripture

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Duckybill

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English bibles are no more than translations, and as such it always reflects the theological bias of the translators. To filter it out you need to access other resources and other translations. Why should I rewrite a translation? But I am interested to get behind the translators' bias and get the intended meaning.
And you aren't biased?
Read the foreword of the NRSV. Not only mine. If you want a good selection of translations, I use the RSV / NRSV and NASB as primary translations, and use all others as secondary.

John 1:1 (NRSV)
[sup]1 [/sup]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (NRSV)
[sup]14 [/sup]And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father's only son, full of grace and truth.



 

John Zain

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The last time I read the gospels the Kingdom was preached: "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is near!"
Jesus meant that the Kingdom of God (or heaven) was NEAR to those hearing the good news.
If they (miraculously) believed it, they entered into the Kingdom. That's how NEAR it was to them.
It was also NEAR to them in those who were believers already in the Kingdom.

P.S. Jesus never preached the doctrine of the Triune Godhead in His gospel (good news).
Does anyone really believe that the unfathonable Trinity was/is part of Jesus' good news?

P.S. Yes, I have the following spiritual revelation: the Trinity is obviously part of the Bible.


... one day I decided to test - not disprove, nor prove, but test - the foundations.
And the foundations fell apart. I had to throw it all away and reworked everything.
Again, I am asking ...
Please explain your
testing of the foundations
... I am extremely interested.
 

belantos

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And you aren't biased?


John 1:1 (NRSV)
[sup]1 [/sup]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (NRSV)
[sup]14 [/sup]And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father's only son, full of grace and truth.


Did you know that there were no capitalisation, not punctuations in the ancient Greek?

καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

No definite article before "Theos".

So it all comes down to the definition of "word", which is the Torah.

Jesus meant that the Kingdom of God (or heaven) was NEAR to those hearing the good news.
If they (miraculously) believed it, they entered into the Kingdom. That's how NEAR it was to them.
It was also NEAR to them in those who were believers already in the Kingdom.

P.S. Jesus never preached the doctrine of the Triune Godhead in His gospel (good news).
Does anyone really believe that the unfathonable Trinity was/is part of Jesus' good news?

P.S. Yes, I have the following spiritual revelation: the Trinity is obviously part of the Bible.



Again, I am asking ...
Please explain your
testing of the foundations
... I am extremely interested.


No "miraculous belief" was required, only repentance. Those who repented could not enter the Kingdom of the Messiah when it did not yet exist.

Are you interested? Why don't you read some scholarly books you can buy from Amazon?

 

Duckybill

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Did you know that there were no capitalisation, not punctuations in the ancient Greek?

καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος

No definite article before "Theos".

So it all comes down to the definition of "word", which is the Torah.
So you're basically here to trash Christianity and the NT. Clear enough.

 

aspen

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I) [Jn 1:1]:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

[OBSERVATIONS FROM THE TEXT AT HAND]:

A) "IN THE BEGINNING" REFERS TO THE BEGINNING OFALL TIME AND ALL CREATION

"In [the] beginning" =

"en .........archE"

Notice that there is no definite article for the Word "beginning". This points in an emphatic way to a specific beginning.

Since these are the very first words in the gospel of John pointing to a beginning of beginnings,

and since original creation of time and matter comes immediately into view as the substance of this beginning in verses 2 & 3,

and since the creation of the Word cannot be in view since the Word is stipulated as "was";

then "In [the] beginning" refers to the beginning of all time and creation of all things.

1) [Compare the next two verses: Jn 1:2-3]:

(v. 2) "He was with God in the beginning.

(v. 3) Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

Verses 2 & 3 nail down the beginning to be that beginning when "all things were made... that has been made." - a momentous beginning at which time the Word already "was with God"

'IN THE BEGINNING' IN JN 1:1 PARALLELS THE ABSOLUTE BEGINNING OF ALL TIME AND CREATION OF THE SAME PHRASE IN GENESIS CHAPTER ONE

1) [Compare Gen 1:1]:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Notice that author John is paralleling Genesis 1:1 as it portrays the beginning of all time and creation. The LXX, Genesis 1:1, (septuagint) has the identical phrase for in the beginning in Jn 1:1, "En arche". Hence Genesis 1:1 is a declarative statement about the absolute beginning of all time-space-matter, i.e. of the universe. This is not a recreation because the Hebrew verb "bara" = rendered in English "created", signifying created out of nothing, does not support that, nor does the context of the rest of Genesis chapter one.

Furthermore the conjunction "and" connecting the verses in Genesis chapter 1 indicates uninterrupted sequential action over a period of 6 twenty-four hour days. So the phrase "In the beginning" in Genesis 1:1 points to the beginning of a series of original creative acts out of nothing over a 6 x 24 hour period, not a description of a recreation of something that evolved over millions of years. This is corroborated by Genesis 2:1 which is a declarative statement indicating that from verse 1:1 to 2:1 there were 6 literal 24 hour days which transpired in God's creative work whereupon in Genesis 2:1 the work is finished.

C) PROVERBS STIPULATES THAT THE SON OF GOD, (THE WORD), CREATED ALL THINGS WITH THE FATHER. THIS CORROBORATES THAT THE PHRASE 'IN THE BEGINNING' IN JN 1:1 REFERS TO THE BEGINNING OF ALL TIME AND CREATION

1) [Compare Pr 30:4]:

"Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of His hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in His cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and the name of His Son? Tell me if you know!"

In the Hebrew the word "Who" in this passage is literally translated, "Who are the Holy Ones Who"= plural. So God the Father and God the Son have gone up to heaven and come down, gathered up the wind, wrapped up the waters and established, (i.e. created), the ends of the earth. Here is a clear statement that the Son of God, later in the text of John chapter 1 to be established as the Word, to be there at the creation of the world, even a Co-Creator, even two Personalities of the Godhead.

D) JOHN TESTIFIES IN HIS EPISTLE FIRST JOHN THAT THE 'WORD OF LIFE', JESUS CHRIST, APPEARED TO HUMANITY. HE IS STIPULATED AS 'ETERNAL LIFE' WHO 'WAS FROM THE BEGINNING' AND 'WITH THE FATHER' - THE BEGININING IN VIEW IS EVIDENTLY THE BEGINNING OF ALL TIME AND CREATION

1) [Compare 1 Jn 1:1-2; 2:13a]:

(v. 1) "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

(v. 2) The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

(v. 3) We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.

(v. 2:13a) "I write to you, fathers, because you have known Him who is from the beginning."

Notice that the Word of life, identified by John as 'Jesus Christ', the 'Son' of God, 'eternal life', is stipulated as being 'with the Father', 'from the beginning', having 'appeared' to humanity to be seen, looked at and touched, i.e., in human form. It is especially clear that the phrase "from the beginning" refers to the beginning of all time and creation.

I cont.) [Jn 1:1 cont.]:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

[OBSERVATION FROM THE TEXT AT HAND]

E) "THE WORD" IN THIS CONTEXT REFERS TO AN ETERNAL PERSON ALREADY PRESENT AT THE BEGINNING OF ALL TIME AND CREATION

"In the beginning was the Word" =

The word "logos" in Greek, commonly refers to speaking, a message or words. It appears here with the definite article, "the Word" = "ho Logos". Repeated personal references are made to the Word in this passage as if "ho Logos", the Word were a Person. John 1:1a refers to an eternal Person already present at the beginning of all time and creation.

'''There are three words in the Greek language for "word," one referring to the mere articulate sound of the voice, another speaking of that sound as the manifestation of a mental state, and still another, the one used by John, and whose meaning will be discussed.

The word is Logos. It comes from the verb which means literally "to pick out or select," thus "to pick words in order to express one's thoughts," thus "to speak." It speaks of a word uttered by the human voice which embodies a conception or idea. It refers not merely to a part of speech but to a concept or idea... The definite article appears before "Word". He is not merely a concept ... He is THE concept.'''

1) "IN THE BEGINNING" CANNOT REFER TO THE TIME OF THE WORD BEING CREATED BECAUSE THE PHRASE "IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD" STATES THAT THE WORD ALREADY "WAS" IN THE BEGINNING, I.E., UNCREATED AND ETERNAL = CREATOR AND GOD HIMSELF

"In the beginning was the Word" =

The phrase "In the beginning" cannot refer to the time of the Word being created because "the Word" in that phrase is stipulated that it already "was" in the beginning which establishes itself as uncreated and eternal. Time did not exist, no created thing existed and the Word was - uncreated & eternal!

Notice that the verb "was" = Greek, "en" in this context indicates a continual existence in the past. An eternal existence of "the Word" is in view since "the Word" was already ongoing "in the beginning" before all time and allcreation.

a) [Jn 1:2-3]:

(v. 2) "He was with God in the beginning.

(v. 3) Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made."

Notice that the Word is declared once more as being with God "in the beginning" and is then referred to in verse 3 as "Him" through Whom "all things were made," without Whom "nothing was made that has been made." It is emphatically declared here that all that was created was created through the Word following the declaration of the Word being with God "in the beginning". This narrows down the beginning to the beginning of all time and creation when all things that were created were created. This rules out the Word being created, because He is Creator of all things. The Word, therefore must be one Who is uncreated, i.e., eternal, God.

2) THE SON OF GOD, JESUS CHRIST, THE WORD IS STIPULATED IN COLOSSIANS 1:16-17 AS BEFORE ALL THINGS HENCE HE IS UNCREATED, I.E., ETERNAL GOD

a) [Compare Col 1:16-17]:

(v. 16) "For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

(v. 17) He is before all things, and in him all things hold together."

Notice that the Son, Jesus Christ, the Word is before all things, i.e., uncreated = eternal God

3) JESUS CHRIST WAS PRESENT WITH THE FATHER BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN

a) [Compare Jn 17:5]:

"And now, Father, glorify Me [Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, vv. 1-2)] in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world began."

[Notice that Jesus Christ is the Son of God the Father and was in His presence with the glory of God before the world began]

[OBSERVATION FROM THE TEXT AT HAND]

4) SINCE THE WORD IS ETERNAL, THE WORD IS GOD

Since the Word "was" at the beginning of all time and all creation, then the Word was already and has always been, i.e., He is eternal as only God is eternal. Hence the Word is God.

5) HE WHO WAS BEFORE THE MOUNTAINS WERE BORN AND BEFORE THE EARTH AND THE WORLD WAS BROUGHT FORTH IS EVERLASTING TO EVERLASTING GOD

a) [Compare Ps 90:2]:

"Before the mountains were born or You brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting You are God."

Notice that He Who was before creation, and He Who was before the earth and the world, which includes the Word, (Jn 1:1), is everlasting God. This corroborates the eternality and hence the Diety of the Word who was before creation and verses stipulates that He is Creator, (v. 3).

I cont.) [Jn 1:1 cont.]:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

"In the beginning was the Word" =

E cont.) "THE WORD" REFERS TO AN ETERNAL PERSON ALREADY PRESENT AT THE BEGINNING OF ALL TIME AND CREATION, cont.

[OBSERVATION FROM THE TEXT AT HAND]

6) "THE WORD" = "LOGOS" IN THE CONTEXT OF JN 1:1-2 IS PERSONIFIED TO MEAN AN ETERNAL PERSON EQUAL TO GOD AND ALREADY PRESENT AT THE BEGINNING OF ALL TIME AND CREATION

Logos" in greek, commonly refers to speaking, or a message, or words. In the context of Jn 1:1-2 "Logos" appears with a definite article and is personified to mean an eternal person equal to God and already present at the beginning of all time and creation.

To understand the term "Word" ("logos") which John used as a name we need to determine the meaning this term "logos" had for those to whom the Gospel of John was first written nearly 2000 years ago to a Jewish audience.

To the Jew living 2000 years ago in Jerusalem, a word was something concrete, something much closer to what we today would call an event or a deed. A word spoken to the Jew was a deed done! Thus the Jew would be prepared for the thought that the Word the "Logos" - of God could be seen and touched as well as heard, and that the "Logos" would find expression as a Person.

[CORROBORATION AND FURTHER COMMENTARY]

7) JOHN'S FIRST EPISTLE PERSONIFIES THE WORD AS HAVING APPEARED IN HIS HUMANITY

a) [Compare 1 John 1:1-3]:

(v. 1) "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

(v. 2) The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

(v. 3) We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ."

Notice that the Word of life Who was from the beginning, appeared, as life, i.e., a human being and was heard, seen,looked at, and touched. Hence the Word here in First John is the same as 'The Word' in John chapter one which is indeed personified and human.

[OBSERVATION FROM THE TEXT AT HAND]

F) THE WORD WAS ALREADY THERE "IN THE BEGINNING" OF ALL TIME AND ALL CREATION AND AT THAT BEGINNING THE WORD WAS "WITH", LIT. FACE TO FACE WITH GOD = "THEON" INDICATING AN ETERNAL BEING EQUAL TO GOD - NOT SIMPLY WORDS FROM GOD

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God" =

"With", (Greek, "pros", accusative case), with the stationary verb "to be", (Greek, "eimi"), means "close to", "facing", "in front of", "in the presence of"

"God" = "Theon", accusative case.

If "pros" were in the dative case, it would mean something like the Word was "with God" or even "at God's place" in the sense of the French 'chez moi', for that is the typical usage. But John's use of "pros" here is unique. It is not in the dative case but in the accusative case, hence it portrays a face to face with God as directed/oriented towards God on an equal level, separate and in its own right. So, in the beginning, the Word was enjoying reciprocity with God.

So the Word was already there "in the beginning" of all time and all creation and at that beginning the Word was with - literally, face to face on an equal level with God indicating an eternal being equal to God - not simply words from God which would not have such a status. The Word therefore is God, a second expression/personality of God.

The Greek word which is rendered "with" in both verses ("pros") means an intimate communion on an equal level with God.

[Dr Leon Morris states, ('The Gospel According to John, Wiliam B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, Mi, 1971, p. 75-76)]:

''' "The Word was with God" is probably as good a translation as we can manage for a difficult Greek expression.....

...The preposition ["pros" = "with"] "implies not merely existence alongside of but personal intercourse. It means more than' meta' = 'with' or 'para' = 'with', 'by', 'near', 'among', and is regularly employed in expressing the presence of one person with another"....According to A. T. Robertson, "the literal idea comes out well, 'face to face with God...[it]...expresses nearness combined with the sense of movement towards God, and so indicates an active relationship." [with a sense of intimacy]

So "pros" is used to establish the idea of communion on an equal level with God.

G) JESUS CHRIST LATER TESTIFIES TO HIS PRESENCE WITH THE FATHER BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN

1) [Compare Jn 17:5]:

"And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world began."

Notice that Jesus Christ declares that He had the glory of God while in the presence of God before the world began.

I cont.) [Jn 1:1 cont.]:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

[OBSERVATION FROM THE TEXT AT HAND]

H) GOD THE FATHER IS IN VIEW IN THE PHRASE "AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD"

(v. 1:1b) "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God"............................ (v. 14) "The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, as of the One and only Who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

Notice that in verse 1 the Word was with God and in verse 14 the Word became flesh and came from the Father. Hence "God" in 1:1b is God the Father.

I) JOHN TESTIFIES IN HIS EPISTLE FIRST JOHN THAT THE 'WORD OF LIFE', JESUS CHRIST IS STIPULATED THAT HE 'WAS FROM THE BEGINNING' AND 'WITH THE FATHER' - THE BEGININING IN VIEW IS EVIDENTLY THE BEGINNING OF ALL TIME AND CREATION

1) [Compare 1 Jn 1:1-2; 2:13a]:

(v. 1) "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched--this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.

(v. 2) The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

(v. 3) We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ.

(v. 2:13a) "I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning."

Notice that the Word of life is stipulated as being 'with the Father', 'from the beginning'. It is especially clear that the phrase "from the beginning" refers to the beginning of all time and creation.

[OBSERVATION FROM THE TEXT AT HAND]

J) AND GOD - THE NATURE, ALL THE QUALITIES AND ESSENCE OF GOD WAS THE WORD IN THE BEGINNING OF ALL TIME AND CREATION

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" =

"Kai Theos en ...o ...Logos"

"And God ..was the Word"

Notice the position of "Theos" = "God" at the beginning of the phrase - an emphatic one without the definite article which serves by this position and without the article to describe the Word as having the essence of God.

Since there is no article in front of "Theos" = "God", the noun is said to be anarthrous, i.e., without an article. The verb "was" = "en", (to be), is copulative and intransitive verb, i.e., it joins two subjects together in meaning as the context permits and takes no object, respectively . Said in another way, there can be no direct object following "was" because intransitive copulative verbs take no objects but take instead predicate nominatives which refer back in meaning to the subject of the clause. Hence, Jn 1:1c joins the two subjects = "Theos" and = "Logos" in meaning where the former being without an article and in view of the previous phrases describes the quality of the latter. Hence "Logos", the Word is described by everything that "Theos", God is.

Mark it down that in every instance where we need to construe one nominative as the predicate nominative, the predicate nominative is anarthrous. Accordingly, if one nominative is articular and the other is anarthrous, the anarthrous nominative is in the predicate, and the articular nominative is the subject.

On the other hand, if both of the nouns in a predicate nominative construction have the article, or if both lack the article, the two nouns become interchangeable. If there had been an article in front of "Theos", then John would have been telling us that "God was the Word" as well as "the Word was God." But there is no article in front of "Theos" so author John is not teaching that Jesus Christ and God [the Father] were both the same person. Hence we avoid the heresy of modalism and a contradiction since the Word cannot be with God if both are one and the same.

Therefore, in view of the emphatic position of "Theos" (God) at the beginning of Jn 1:1c and the lack of a definite article in Jn 1:1c pointing to it as the predicate nominative which describes the subject,"ho Logos", (the Word); we conclude that the qualities of God, i.e., His divine essence which only God can possess, are indicated as qualities which are inherent in "Logos" = "the Word". So "Theos" in this phrase means that the Word has the nature, qualities and essences of the One and only God, i.e., God is the Word

K) SCRIPTURE SPECIFICALLY STIPULATES THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD

1) [ 2 Thess. 1:11-12]:

"[We pray this] so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ."

......................"HopOs endoxasthE .........to ..onoma tou kuriou ..hEmOn iEsou en humin

[We pray this] so that may be glorified ..the name .........of Lord our .......Jesus .in .you

.

kai humeis en autO kata ..............tEn.charin tou theou .....hEmOn kai .kuriou iEsou

and you .....in Him ..according to the .grace ........of God ...our ........and Lord ..Jesus

christou."

Christ."

God "theos" here is articular, and Christ "christou" is anarthrous. Both nouns are in the same case, and therefore should read "the grace of Jesus Christ, our God and Lord".

2) [Compare Titus 2:13]:

"While we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,"

"Prosdechomenoi tEn makarian elpida kai ..epiphaneian tEs .....doxEs

"Expecting............the .blessed .....hope ..and .appearing ....of the glory

tou megalou theou kai .sOtEros hEmOn iEsou christou

.......of great .God ..and Savior ...our ....Jesus Christ

God "theos" here is articular, and Christ "christou" is anarthrous. Both nouns are in the same case, and therefore should read "our great God and Savior Jesus Christ". (Granville Sharp rule #1)

3) [Compare Heb. 1:8]:

"But to the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.' "

"pros de ..ton huion ..........ho thronos sou ..ho .theos .eis ton aiOna tou aiOnos

"to ....But the Son .He says ....throne Your Oh God is to the age .....of the age....

......................................................................................................(forever and ever)

........rhabdos euthutEtos ............he .rhabdos tEs ....basileias sou"

...the scepter .of righteousness is the scepter .of the kingdom Your"

Notice that the Son is addressed as God in this quotation from Ps 45:6-7, hence we have a testimony of God the Son in the Old and New Testaments.

4) [Compare Acts 20:28]:

"Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood."

Notice that "Theos" = "God" purchased the church "with his own blood", pointing to Jesus Christ.

5) [Compare Isa 9:6]:

"For to us a child is born,

to us a son is given,

and the government will be on His shoulders.

And He will be called

Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,

Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
 

belantos

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So you're basically here to trash Christianity and the NT. Clear enough.


I am basically here to teach you basic truths you will never hear in your church.

... {culled for no other reason but to save space}

I hope you don't expect me to address all of these. I would retire before I finished. Most of these have been dealt with in these threads, you just need to look them up.

If you are on Facebook I encourage you to make Shmuel Playfair a friend. He has numerous notes on these subjects that saves me typing off my fingers. If anything is not dealt with by him I am happy to answer them, but please keep in mind that life is short. Try to be brief.
 

aspen

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I am basically here to teach you basic truths you will never hear in your church.



I hope you don't expect me to address all of these. I would retire before I finished. Most of these have been dealt with in these threads, you just need to look them up.

If you are on Facebook I encourage you to make Shmuel Playfair a friend. He has numerous notes on these subjects that saves me typing off my fingers. If anything is not dealt with by him I am happy to answer them, but please keep in mind that life is short. Try to be brief.

First I do not provide enough verses, than I provide too many?
 

belantos

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Nov 12, 2010
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Again, I am asking ...
Please explain your
testing of the foundations
... I am extremely interested.

Most Christians work hard to prove their doctrine. Just look at the Christian apologetics. Proving means you shore up all the proof verses that support your position. In this process you are biased, because the outcome is predetermined.

Testing is done similarly to a court process. You take an independent position and declare the position (or doctrine) you want to test. Then you shore up all the proof that supports that position, and also search for counter proofs. You gather then all together and then evaluate the data. The outcome is not predetermined, for it is determined by the result of the investigation. Since you take an independent position, you must accept the end result, whatever it may be.

I tested the trinitarian doctrine when I loved it. I never wanted to disprove it, because I knew it and enjoyed it so much. But for long I was on the opinion that the doctrine was never really tested by the churches. It was passed down through the centuries and often forced down the throats of people, sometimes upon the pain of exile or even death. Those who disagreed were labelled as heretics and persecuted. The Christian Church has never truly tested it.

So one night I came before my Father and prayed for his help. I promised that I'd accept whatever the outcome of my investigation would be.

The next morning the deity of the Holy Spirit fell apart in 10 minutes simply by collecting related verses through the Strong's Concordance. The doctrine of the deity of Jesus collapsed in a week as some of the passages are harder to interpret. Then I moved on to test other ideas...

It was a frightening experience, for suddenly I felt alone in the whole world. Then as time went on I discovered that I had joined the fastest growing religion in the world. God is calling His people out of the idolatrous Babylon.

Hear His voice!

First I do not provide enough verses, than I provide too many?

There are no trinity verses in the ones you quoted. Which ones do you not understand? As Jesus explained, the term "god" was also applied to people. So the expression "mighty god" refers to a militarily successful king.
 

Duckybill

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I am basically here to teach you basic truths you will never hear in your church.
Which Jesus and the Apostles would call 'doctrines of demons'.


I tested the trinitarian doctrine when I loved it. I never wanted to disprove it, because I knew it and enjoyed it so much. But for long I was on the opinion that the doctrine was never really tested by the churches. It was passed down through the centuries and often forced down the throats of people, sometimes upon the pain of exile or even death. Those who disagreed were labelled as heretics and persecuted. The Christian Church has never truly tested it.

So one night I came before my Father and prayed for his help. I promised that I'd accept whatever the outcome of my investigation would be.

The next morning the deity of the Holy Spirit fell apart in 10 minutes simply by collecting related verses through the Strong's Concordance. The doctrine of the deity of Jesus collapsed in a week as some of the passages are harder to interpret. Then I moved on to test other ideas...

It was a frightening experience, for suddenly I felt alone in the whole world. Then as time went on I discovered that I had joined the fastest growing religion in the world. God is calling His people out of the idolatrous Babylon.

Hear His voice!
You opened the door to Satan and he walked into your life. You departed from the Christian Faith.

 

belantos

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Which Jesus and the Apostles would call 'doctrines of demons'.



You opened the door to Satan and he walked into your life. You departed from the Christian Faith.


Oh. You must surely know what you are talking about. Your ideas about Satan was adopted from the Pagan religion called Zoroastrianism.

I simply asked my Father God to help me with my research. Why do you call Him "satan"?
 

Duckybill

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Oh. You must surely know what you are talking about. Your ideas about Satan was adopted from the Pagan religion called Zoroastrianism.

I simply asked my Father God to help me with my research. Why do you call Him "satan"?
You departed from the Christian Faith as was foretold in the NT.

1 Timothy 4:1 (ESV)
[sup]1 [/sup]Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

So tell us, what is the name of your new religion?
 

belantos

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You departed from the Christian Faith as was foretold in the NT.

1 Timothy 4:1 (ESV)
[sup]1 [/sup]Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

So tell us, what is the name of your new religion?

That is exactly what happened when the early Greek Christians incorporated Pagan ideas into their theology, so that Justin Martyr already could not see any difference between their and the Pagan beliefs. Paul was not talking about 2000 years into the future, but about the times later than theirs.

My religion is the same as the first century Christians had before they adopted Pagan ideas.

So tell us, what is the name of your new religion?

Oh, so you want a name... Just call it "The Way"...
 

Duckybill

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That is exactly what happened when the early Greek Christians incorporated Pagan ideas into their theology, so that Justin Martyr already could not see any difference between their and the Pagan beliefs. Paul was not talking about 2000 years into the future, but about the times later than theirs.

My religion is the same as the first century Christians had before they adopted Pagan ideas.

Oh, so you want a name... Just call it "The Way"...
Which Books of the Bible do you follow?
 

Duckybill

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You keep avoiding replying to questions. Do you know which scriptures the first century Christians followed or not? Yes or no?
Do you know which ones you follow? Yes or no? I doubt that you do. You didn't even know that working on the Sabbath required the death penalty. Perhaps you were too busy working on Sabbaths?