A Terrific TRINITY Passage of Scripture

[Duckybill]

Answer the question.

How many times do yo want me to answer it?

Matthew 28:19 (ESV)
[sup]19 [/sup]Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[John Zain]

Most Christians work hard to prove their doctrine. Just look at the Christian apologetics. Proving means you shore up all the proof verses that support your position. In this process you are biased, because the outcome is predetermined. Testing is done similarly to a court process. You take an independent position and declare the position (or doctrine) you want to test. Then you shore up all the proof that supports that position, and also search for counter proofs. You gather then all together and then evaluate the data. The outcome is not predetermined, for it is determined by the result of the investigation. Since you take an independent position, you must accept the end result, whatever it may be. I tested the trinitarian doctrine when I loved it. I never wanted to disprove it, because I knew it and enjoyed it so much. But for long I was on the opinion that the doctrine was never really tested by the churches. It was passed down through the centuries and often forced down the throats of people, sometimes upon the pain of exile or even death. Those who disagreed were labelled as heretics and persecuted. The Christian Church has never truly tested it. So one night I came before my Father and prayed for his help. I promised that I'd accept whatever the outcome of my investigation would be. The next morning the deity of the Holy Spirit fell apart in 10 minutes simply by collecting related verses through the Strong's Concordance. The doctrine of the deity of Jesus collapsed in a week as some of the passages are harder to interpret. Then I moved on to test other ideas. It was a frightening experience, for suddenly I felt alone in the whole world. Then as time went on I discovered that I had joined the fastest growing religion in the world. God is calling His people out of the idolatrous Babylon. Hear His voice!

Okay, this is impressive ... if the Holy Spirit actually did what you say He did.
(Multitudes of people have been deceived by Satan and his demons.)

Do you have lots of verses to counterbalance the 80+ verses I have that teach Jesus is God?

First of all, before continuing, let's be very clear about this ...
ARE YOU SAYING THAT THESE 80+ VERSES WERE ADDED TO THE SCRIPTURES?

Your ideas about Satan was adopted from the Pagan religion called Zoroastrianism.

I have many Scripture verses that teach who and what Satan is.
This is how the church knows this stuff.
Again I would ask ... were these verses also added to the Scriptures at some point?

My religion is the same as the first century Christians had before they adopted Pagan ideas.

EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY's IDEAS ARE ALL FROM THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.
I can go along with your thinking somewhat ... if the Scriptures were changed since the first century.
I'm giving you the opportunity to use this as an excuse for your ideas.

 

[belantos]

Okay, this is impressive ... if the Holy Spirit actually did what you say He did.
(Multitudes of people have been deceived by Satan and his demons.)

Do you have lots of verses to counterbalance the 80+ verses I have that teach Jesus is God?

There is not a single one as far as I know. Spare me the effort to retype things over and over and read my posts, because I dealt with many of them.

Up to quite recently tribal membership was traced through the father's blood line. I wrote about this also, but people don't seem to understand its implications.

If Jesus was not the biological son of Joseph, he doesn't belong to the tribe of Judah. Make your pick. If you want him to be a virgin-born god-man, so be it, but than he doesn't qualify to the throne of David, ergo, he is not the Messiah. For me I follow the real son of David who came in his Father's name, not the one who came in his own co-eternal and co-equal name.

First of all, before continuing, let's be very clear about this ...
ARE YOU SAYING THAT THESE 80+ VERSES WERE ADDED TO THE SCRIPTURES?

There are a few verses that have been added, but they are known to textual scholars. To be clear, I do believe that the originals were error free, which we don't have. From memory the earliest complete manuscripts are from the 4th century, which is still pretty good.

I have many Scripture verses that teach who and what Satan is.
This is how the church knows this stuff.
Again I would ask ... were these verses also added to the Scriptures at some point?

Sure. The bible records what people believed at that time. For example, near the Syrian border sickness was attributed to demons, in Jerusalem to sin.

EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANITY's IDEAS ARE ALL FROM THE HOLY SCRIPTURES.
I can go along with your thinking somewhat ... if the Scriptures were changed since the first century.
I'm giving you the opportunity to use this as an excuse for your ideas.

So goes the claim. JWs also believe that, so do all other sects. At least the Catholics are honest and admit their church tradition is more important.

If you added that Evangelical Christianity derives its ideas from the evangelical interpretation of the scriptures, I wouldn't argue with that.

For your info I used to be an Evangelical Christian, obtained a theology degree and served in full time ministry.

 

[Groundzero]

For the benefit of the readers, we will now highlight some serious issues for the Trinity from this verse.


John 14:

[sup]16[/sup] And I (Jesus) will pray (to) the Father, and He will give you another Helper,
that He may abide with you forever —
[sup]17[/sup] the Spirit (there is ONE spirit. Eph. 4:4) of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him
nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you (who was with the disciples at that moment? Jesus Christ, and inside him was the very spirit he was talking about! The spirit of the Father, the Holy Spirit) and will be in you.
[sup]18[/sup] I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. (It seems to be that we have missed something here. Jesus just said that he was going to come to them! How does the Trinity explain that?! )
[sup]23[/sup] … and We (God) will come to him and make Our home with him. (Has anyone actually checked up on those plural words? If we go back to the root, 'we will come' simply means to come. It can be plural or it can be one! If we go back to the root of 'our home', we find that it doesn't actually mean anything except abode!)
[sup]26[/sup] But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, (Umm, hello. The name of the Holy Spirit is Jesus! If we couple that with verse eighteen, I think it's pretty clear who the Holy Spirit is: JESUS!)
He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

The Greek word here for ”another” is ”allos” meaning ”another of the same kind”. (Same kind of what? It doesn't actually say persons! Jesus was a father to the apostles, and he said, "God will send you another Comforter. He isn't someone different because you know him because he is with you right now, but when that Comforter comes, he will be IN you as well! I will not leave you orphans, I WILL COME to YOU!)



This verse is by no means a 'terrific trinity passage of Scripture', but rather supports that there is ONE literal God whose name is Jesus!

 

[John Zain]

This will clear up any confusion concerning the arrival of the Holy Spirit:

“But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive;
for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.” (John 7:39)

“But when the Helpercomes, whom I shall send to you from the Father,
the Spirit of truthwho proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.” (John 15:26).

“But now I go away to Him (Father God) who sent Me … It is to your advantage
that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helperwill not come to you …“ (John 16:5-7).

“… when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth …” (John 16:13).

 

[lawrance]

[/size]


There is not a single one as far as I know. Spare me the effort to retype things over and over and read my posts, because I dealt with many of them.

Up to quite recently tribal membership was traced through the father's blood line. I wrote about this also, but people don't seem to understand its implications.

If Jesus was not the biological son of Joseph, he doesn't belong to the tribe of Judah. Make your pick. If you want him to be a virgin-born god-man, so be it, but than he doesn't qualify to the throne of David, ergo, he is not the Messiah. For me I follow the real son of David who came in his Father's name, not the one who came in his own co-eternal and co-equal name.





There are a few verses that have been added, but they are known to textual scholars. To be clear, I do believe that the originals were error free, which we don't have. From memory the earliest complete manuscripts are from the 4th century, which is still pretty good.


[/size]


Sure. The bible records what people believed at that time. For example, near the Syrian border sickness was attributed to demons, in Jerusalem to sin.



So goes the claim. JWs also believe that, so do all other sects. At least the Catholics are honest and admit their church tradition is more important.

If you added that Evangelical Christianity derives its ideas from the evangelical interpretation of the scriptures, I wouldn't argue with that.

For your info I used to be an Evangelical Christian, obtained a theology degree and served in full time ministry.

It Looks to me like by what you are saying you would be one of the people who would of kill Jesus and you still would today ? is that right. i think you have another Jesus ?
Our Jesus Christ was crucified and is the Son of God.
Anyone who does not understand or rejects the trinity is lost to the Spirit of comprehending what it means because they are to worldy and are just following mans ways and have a pathetic comprehension of what the Holy Bible is. as i have seen people who only just idolise the book.
Evangelical christian theology degree. 'O'
So you say that Catholics say that tradition is more important ? that is out of context and slander.