According to Genesis 3: 16-19 what your take on these scriptures?

[Davy]

I have to disagree with u there because if Adam would had did what Job did with his wife, we would have had this curse, even until this day. (Job 2: 6-10)

I don't understand you, because Job's wife was at fault by her suggesting that Job curse God and die. But Job refused her advice and still did not sin.

That's not true! Because the Lord did a similar thing with Abraham in Genesis 3: 10-17. Remember in life, you make the choices, the Lord sit back and watch and see what you do, sometimes.

You mean Adam. The man Adam is the subject of that Genesis 3:10-17 Scripture.

The connection with Eve's sin being because of her flesh is a simple matter that God's Word explains...

Gen 3:6
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
KJV

1 John 2:16
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
KJV

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again bro.tan,

That's true, but I want you to elaborate on these curses as we live today. Because our society still effect these curses.

I will let you elaborate on these, but I was interested in the fact that these verses teach that man is mortal because of sin and that these verses clearly teach that man does not have an immortal soul as is taught by most churches.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Davy]

I'm amazed that not many brethren have understood that the concept of 'death' existed before... Adam and Eve's sin.

Lucifer in the 'old world' before Adam is who did the very first sin, not Eve. And for that cause was Christ Jesus ordained to be born of woman to die on the cross, to defeat death for us (Hebrew 2:14; 1 John 3:8).

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings Davy,

I'm amazed that not many brethren have understood that the concept of 'death' existed before... Adam and Eve's sin.

I disagree with your overall perspective. Death was introduced for the first time as a result of Adam and Eve's sin. The serpent was one of the animals or reptiles that God created, not a supernatural being.

Lucifer in the 'old world' before Adam is who did the very first sin, not Eve.

The word Lucifer only occurs in Isaiah 14 and it is speaking about the King of Babylon.

And for that cause was Christ Jesus ordained to be born of woman to die on the cross, to defeat death for us (Hebrew 2:14; 1 John 3:8).

Jesus was born with fallen human nature in order to overcome sin and its effects Hebrews 2:14, Romans 8:3..

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[bro.tan]

Greetings again bro.tan,

I will let you elaborate on these, but I was interested in the fact that these verses teach that man is mortal because of sin and that these verses clearly teach that man does not have an immortal soul as is taught by most churches.

Kind regards
Trevor

I don't think I've heard that before, men don't have mortal soul because of those scriptures.

 

[bro.tan]

I don't understand you, because Job's wife was at fault by her suggesting that Job curse God and die. But Job refused her advice and still did not sin.

Right; the point is, thats what Adam should have done to Eve. Job did the right thing, but Adam didn't. You see that!

You mean Adam. The man Adam is the subject of that Genesis 3:10-17 Scripture.

The connection with Eve's sin being because of her flesh is a simple matter that God's Word explains...

Gen 3:6
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
KJV

1 John 2:16
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
KJV

 

[bro.tan]

Yes, biblically both Rachel and Leah had children through their handmaidens. As Christians women can in a sense bear spiritual children simply by helping them grow spiritually.

That's true, not sure I understand the point of saying that.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again bro.tan,

I don't think I've heard that before, men don't have mortal soul because of those scriptures.

Genesis 3:19 teaches that man is a mortal soul, and that at death he returns to the dust. He does not go to heaven or hell at death but awaits the resurrection when Christ returns to raise the dead and give the faithful immortality in the Kingdom for the 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Randy Kluth]

That's true, not sure I understand the point of saying that.

You wanted input on the consequences God imposed on men and women after the Fall. I indicated that despite the curses both men and women still want to pursue what God's original mandate was for them to do, namely fill the earth with godly children for God.

Then you questioned whether this was so, it seemed. Women don't want to be wives, you said. And though this may be true at certain stages of society, women overall continue to want to marry and produce children. And even if they should not want to be wives they can still produce children by rearing children spiritually. Many women who remained single became good Christian mothers to children not their own.

 

[Davy]

Greetings Davy,

I disagree with your overall perspective. Death was introduced for the first time as a result of Adam and Eve's sin. The serpent was one of the animals or reptiles that God created, not a supernatural being.

And I am surprised that you have not read the following verse...

Rev 12:9
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

Ah... so you're not just disagreeing with me, you are disagreeing with God's Word.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Davy,

And I am surprised that you have not read the following verse..

I am very conscious of that verse but it appears that I have a different view of this passage and the others that I have mentioned, Regarding the context of the verse you quote, could you give some indication of what was the war in heaven. Did they use rockets and guns?

Revelation 12:7–8 (AV): 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Grailhunter]

One thing for sure considering these posts.....People read a lot into scriptures.
These early stories produce a lot of questions. And people have a tendency to fill in the blanks with their imagination.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings Grailhunter.

One thing for sure considering these posts.....People read a lot into scriptures.
These early stories produce a lot of questions. And people have a tendency to fill in the blanks with their imagination.

Yes, that may be true, but many ignore the simple, plain meaning of the actual detail that is there, and introduce ideas that are contrary to this simple detail.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Grailhunter]

Greetings Grailhunter.

Yes, that may be true, but many ignore the simple, plain meaning of the actual detail that is there, and introduce ideas that are contrary to this simple detail.

Kind regards
Trevor

The simple plain meaning is the point.
The simple meaning might be importnt.
The important meaning may be lost if you exagerate.

 

[Davy]

Greetings again Davy,

I am very conscious of that verse but it appears that I have a different view of this passage and the others that I have mentioned, Regarding the context of the verse you quote, could you give some indication of what was the war in heaven. Did they use rockets and guns?

Revelation 12:7–8 (AV): 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Kind regards
Trevor

Still future.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Davy,

Still future.

No. I contribute to the Continuous Historic view of the Book of Revelation and Revelation 12 has been fulfilled. But the subject of a proper understanding of the Book of Revelation is a larger subject than can be properly discussed here, and is larger than the view held by many shallow Pentecostals and Evangelicals. The popular futurist view was started by two Jesuit Priests who wanted to deflect the Reformation view that the Papacy was the Antichrist.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[bro.tan]

You wanted input on the consequences God imposed on men and women after the Fall. I indicated that despite the curses both men and women still want to pursue what God's original mandate was for them to do, namely fill the earth with godly children for God.

Then you questioned whether this was so, it seemed. Women don't want to be wives, you said. And though this may be true at certain stages of society, women overall continue to want to marry and produce children. And even if they should not want to be wives they can still produce children by rearing children spiritually. Many women who remained single became good Christian mothers to children not their own.

Thanks for your input

 

[bro.tan]

Greetings again bro.tan,

Genesis 3:19 teaches that man is a mortal soul, and that at death he returns to the dust. He does not go to heaven or hell at death but awaits the resurrection when Christ returns to raise the dead and give the faithful immortality in the Kingdom for the 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor

Ok I understand what you saying, but only the Saints and whoever is left after the great tribulation will reign or be in Christ kingdom for a thousand years. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).

Let's take a look a those who are left after the great tribulation in Revelation 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again bro.tan,

Ok I understand what you saying, but only the Saints and whoever is left after the great tribulation will reign or be in Christ kingdom for a thousand years.

Your statement is a bit obscure. The Saints will be kings and priests and will rule over the mortal nations with Israel as the first dominion.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Pierac]

Genesis 3: 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Please give me your honest and Godly thoughts on this.

A few things in the passage strike me, mostly at the level of what the words actually say before any doctrine gets built on them.

The curse falls on the serpent and the ground, not on the man or the woman. Verse 14 says the serpent is cursed. Verse 17 says the ground is cursed. Neither Eve nor Adam is ever said to be cursed. Tradition speaks freely of "the curse on Eve," but the text distributes that word carefully, and the careful distribution looks deliberate. What the man and woman receive is a description of the conditions they will now live under.

The KJV renders itstsabon as "sorrow" in verse 16 and again in verse 17, which preserves what many modern versions blur. Her toil is in bringing forth life; his toil is in bringing forth food. In both cases the fruitfulness remains, and what changes is the cost of it. That parallel seems to me the interpretive key to the whole unit, and it is a textual observation.

Also worth naming: what is absent here. No hell, no transmitted guilt, no total depravity, no cosmic fall, no Satan. The serpent is introduced as a beast of the field.

As for the honest and Godly part of your question, here is what I actually find in the passage when I sit with it rather than analyze it. The sentences are all bounded. Hers ends, his ends "all the days of thy life," and the whole thing terminates in the dust. Nothing here is endless. They are not struck down where they stand. Two verses later God makes them coats of skins and clothes them, which is a strange thing to do to people you are finished with. And the barring of the tree of life in verse 22 reads to me at least as much like mercy as like punishment, since endless life in that condition would have been the worse outcome.

The mood of the passage, in other words, is not rage. It is more like a parent describing, in sorrow, the world a child has just chosen to live in, and then quietly making them something to wear.

Strange when you really process it.