All About The Holy Spirit

[Madad21]

you mean like John Paul and Jesus etc?

 

[Madad21]

I thought that was the answer you were looking for, at least thats what my bible tells me.

I hope I havent slipped in to a parallel universe

 

[Madad21]

Is this an interrogation?

 

[Madad21]

Man, Im confused here, first your interrogating me in order to set up your own silly agenda which is frankly boring because we get it here all the time and then you were ignoring me because you had packed a huge sad with me for helping you reconcile (John 10:30), because I said it was a simple mistake to make, which it is, especially when you read it without the benefit of the context of the rest of scripture. And now your talking about me and stan lying to you?.

:blink: what gives?

 

[Madad21]

Well I dont know about that my friend, if you cant take correction the fault isnt mine.
But if I keep going with you I know Im gonna be guilty of (Proverbs 26:4)

God bless and have a good day sir.

 

[Angelina]

You are Squeaky aren't you! :huh:

 

[Tex]

@Guestman

The Trinity is true. Arius was misled. You have been misled. God himself exists as three distinct things, yet is one being. God died for our sins. The Father is God, but the Father did not die for our sins.

If the Father existed prior to the Son, the Father originally existed without loving anything or being loved by anything. Therefore, the Father is not inherently perfect. Part of perfection is Love, and non-trinitarian monotheism concludes that their god does not Love inherently. If he "loved creation before it was", he is only loving his own thoughts. No cigar.

Off topic, the same logical conclusion defeats Islam. Before creation, their God has no Authority. Love isn't as important in their religion, but the Authority of God means a lot. There were no submitters, and their god literally could not require submission. Therefore, there is nothing within their god that by necessity must be submitted to. Submission to Allah is not an understanding of reality, but simply an endeavor in chaos.

@TheWordOfKnowledge

The Holy Spirit is a Person, just as human beings are persons and angels are persons. The word "person" is a philosophical term common in 300 AD. The works that Jesus did (such as death on the Cross) were not done by the Holy Spirit, meaning that the two are distinct Persons. However, they are the same Being because there is only one God. So, God died on the cross, but the Holy Spirit did not die on the cross, nor did the Father.

This is not an entirely accurate definition, but "persons", as used in context of the Godhead, means "actors" (and I don't mean like in theater, I mean like "things that act"). So the Son can act independently from the Father, etc. An easy example of this is the Garden of Gethsemane. Jesus is praying to the Father. Jesus is not praying to Himself. "Hey God, it's me, you" did not happen. However, it is still one Being. Without going into huge philosophical necessities, complications, paradoxes, and the like to prove the the Trinity as the only logical option, just understand that 3 persons, one Being is just how God is.

 

[Guestman]

@Guestman

The Trinity is true. Arius was misled. You have been misled. God himself exists as three distinct things, yet is one being. God died for our sins. The Father is God, but the Father did not die for our sins.

If the Father existed prior to the Son, the Father originally existed without loving anything or being loved by anything. Therefore, the Father is not inherently perfect. Part of perfection is Love, and non-trinitarian monotheism concludes that their god does not Love inherently. If he "loved creation before it was", he is only loving his own thoughts. No cigar.

Off topic, the same logical conclusion defeats Islam. Before creation, their God has no Authority. Love isn't as important in their religion, but the Authority of God means a lot. There were no submitters, and their god literally could not require submission. Therefore, there is nothing within their god that by necessity must be submitted to. Submission to Allah is not an understanding of reality, but simply an endeavor in chaos.

@TheWordOfKnowledge

The Holy Spirit is a Person, just as human beings are persons and angels are persons. The word "person" is a philosophical term common in 300 AD. The works that Jesus did (such as death on the Cross) were not done by the Holy Spirit, meaning that the two are distinct Persons. However, they are the same Being because there is only one God. So, God died on the cross, but the Holy Spirit did not die on the cross, nor did the Father.

This is not an entirely accurate definition, but "persons", as used in context of the Godhead, means "actors" (and I don't mean like in theater, I mean like "things that act"). So the Son can act independently from the Father, etc. An easy example of this is the Garden of Gethsemane. Jesus is praying to the Father. Jesus is not praying to Himself. "Hey God, it's me, you" did not happen. However, it is still one Being. Without going into huge philosophical necessities, complications, paradoxes, and the like to prove the the Trinity as the only logical option, just understand that 3 persons, one Being is just how God is.

Like so many others, in your response, you did not provide one shred of evidence from the Bible that showed this as true, but just espoused a common view without effectively reasoning on the Scriptures. How can Jesus be God and at the same time, say that the "Father is greater than I am" ?(John 14:28) Did you reason on this ?


Or at 1 Corinthians 11, where the apostle Paul said that "I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God."(1 Cor 11;3) Did you reason on this ?


Or at John 8, where Jesus said to the Jews: "After you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things."(John 8:28) Did you reason on this Scripture ?


Or at John 7, where Jesus again told the Jews: "If anyone desires to do His will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or (Greek e, which is "a primary particle of distinction between two connected terms", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible) I speak of my own originality."(John 7:17) Did you carefully examine this Scripture ?


Or at Hebrews 5, where the apostle Paul wrote: "During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear."(Heb 5:7) Did you give serious thought to this Scripture ?


Or where Paul continued in Hebrews, saying: "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Mel·chiz′e·dek."(Heb 5:8-10) Did you reason on these Scriptures ?


Or at John 4, where Jesus told the Samaritan woman: "You worship what you do not know; we worship (Jesus included himself in worshipping the Father) what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews.....God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him (God, not Jesus ) must worship with spirit and truth.”(John 4:22, 24) Did you reason on these Scriptures ?


Or at 1 Corinthians 8, where Paul wrote: "there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him."(1 Cor 8:6) Did you give grave thought to this Scripture ? Paul clearly distinguished between "one God the Father" and "one Lord Jesus Christ".


It is apparent that you have not done your "homework", but just continues to promote the Trinity without careful examination of the Bible. The Jews were (and are) notorious for espousing falsehoods, and during Jesus time, constantly argued with him. As a nation, they have never recognized who Jesus or what the Bible truly teaches down to this day.


And concerning the holy spirit, did you read John 3 carefully, where Jesus told Nicodemus: "The wind (Greek pneuma) blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who has been born from the spirit (Greek pneuma)" ? (John 3:8)


You apparently do not recognize that the both the words ""wind" and "spirit" are from the same Greek word pneuma. What can be gained from this ? That the holy spirit is not a person, but is like the wind that "blows where it wants to" and is an invisible force, but produces visible effects, so likewise the holy spirit is an invisible force but produces visible effects.


Many and I do mean many, do not carefully examine the Bible, but follow suit of the churches of Christendom, promoting the Trinity. They are not serious Bible students but just read the Bible like a good story rather than solemnly giving thought to what the Bible really teaches.


Point of interest: According to a 2013 survey conducted by Russia’s Public Opinion Foundation, about 52 percent of Russians who identified themselves as Orthodox Christians said that they have never read even a part of the Bible, and 28 percent said that they rarely prayed. Can anyone gain insight into the Bible without studying it, much less reading it ?

 

[Madad21]

Why do you guys always ignore Philippians when you denote Christs divinity as equal with God?

All the above is answered in just this one text, and there are many more if you wish.

Philippians 2:5-11
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

So of course the Father is Greater then he, and of course the Father is the head of Christ, and of course he does nothing of his own initiative.

Jesus voluntarily relinquished the prerogative of freely exercising His divine attributes and subjected Himself to the will of the Father while on earth.

Its such a basic concept.

 

[Tex]

@Guestman

Argumentation does not open a heart or mind who's doors and windows are closed and locked with curtains drawn. I shouldn't need to support my statement because the Trinity was taught by the Apostles and is obvious throughout the Scriptures. If you do not see it already, there is not much I can do for you. Here is basic scripture, then I'll address your trinity objections.

2 Samuel 22:3
my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold and my refuge, my savior; you save me from violence.

Luke 2:1
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

God alone is Savior. Jesus is Savior. Therefore, Jesus is God.

Like so many others, in your response, you did not provide one shred of evidence from the Bible that showed this as true, but just espoused a common view without effectively reasoning on the Scriptures. How can Jesus be God and at the same time, say that the "Father is greater than I am" ?(John 14:28) Did you reason on this ?

In the Trinity, the Father is greater than the Son. That isn't a statement of "one is divine and the other is not".

Or at 1 Corinthians 11, where the apostle Paul said that "I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God."(1 Cor 11;3) Did you reason on this?

Jesus submits to the Father. "Not my will...", but that is part of the Trinity. The Son worships the Father. Therefore, the Father is his God.

Or at John 7, where Jesus again told the Jews: "If anyone desires to do His will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or (Greek e, which is "a primary particle of distinction between two connected terms", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible) I speak of my own originality."(John 7:17) Did you carefully examine this Scripture?

Yes. You worded that poorly, so I had to double check the Scripture verse to see if my memory was fading.

It's not.

Jesus clarifies in the following verse exactly what that means. Jesus seeks to glorify the Father, not himself. Therefore, he speaks with God's authority rather than his own. That doesn't contradict the Trinity either.

Last one.

Or where Paul continued in Hebrews, saying: "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Mel·chiz′e·dek."(Heb 5:8-10) Did you reason on these Scriptures ?

This is nothing more than a confirmation of Jesus' humanity, which doesn't contradict the Trinity either. "Learned obedience" doesn't mean he didn't know obedience in the beginning, it means he preformed obedience. He was made perfectly human, meaning glorified body (cause he's the first fruits of Resurrection). And yes, he was designated by the Father because the Son does nothing apart on his own authority. That doesn't mean he and the Father are not the same Being.

Alright, that seems to be the gist of your objections. Basically, you don't seem to understand the concept of the Trinity. I'm not a Modalist, I'm a Trinitarian.

Or where Paul continued in Hebrews, saying: "Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Mel·chiz′e·dek."(Heb 5:8-10) Did you reason on these Scriptures ?

Or at John 4, where Jesus told the Samaritan woman: "You worship what you do not know; we worship (Jesus included himself in worshipping the Father) what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews.....God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him (God, not Jesus ) must worship with spirit and truth.”(John 4:22, 24) Did you reason on these Scriptures ?

Or at 1 Corinthians 8, where Paul wrote: "there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him."(1 Cor 8:6) Did you give grave thought to this Scripture ? Paul clearly distinguished between "one God the Father" and "one Lord Jesus Christ".

It is apparent that you have not done your "homework", but just continues to promote the Trinity without careful examination of the Bible. The Jews were (and are) notorious for espousing falsehoods, and during Jesus time, constantly argued with him. As a nation, they have never recognized who Jesus or what the Bible truly teaches down to this day.

And concerning the holy spirit, did you read John 3 carefully, where Jesus told Nicodemus: "The wind (Greek pneuma) blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who has been born from the spirit (Greek pneuma)" ? (John 3:8)

You apparently do not recognize that the both the words ""wind" and "spirit" are from the same Greek word pneuma. What can be gained from this ? That the holy spirit is not a person, but is like the wind that "blows where it wants to" and is an invisible force, but produces visible effects, so likewise the holy spirit is an invisible force but produces visible effects.

Many and I do mean many, do not carefully examine the Bible, but follow suit of the churches of Christendom, promoting the Trinity. They are not serious Bible students but just read the Bible like a good story rather than solemnly giving thought to what the Bible really teaches.

Point of interest: According to a 2013 survey conducted by Russia’s Public Opinion Foundation, about 52 percent of Russians who identified themselves as Orthodox Christians said that they have never read even a part of the Bible, and 28 percent said that they rarely prayed. Can anyone gain insight into the Bible without studying it, much less reading it ?

 

[shturt678s]

Thank you for caring!

Matt.28:19, God the Holy Spirit is a Person of course....only a head's up.

God the Person of the Holy Spirit whose special task is to build the "Kingdom of God" on earth.

Just so we're on the same page regarding the concept of the Trinity: The union of the three divine Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in one Godhead (state of being God...realiter) where all three are "co-equal," "co-eternal," and "co-substantial."

Old Jack's opinion
Thank you for caring!

Matt.28:19, God the Holy Spirit is a Person of course....only a head's up.

God the Person of the Holy Spirit whose special task is to build the "Kingdom of God" on earth.

Just so we're on the same page regarding the concept of the Trinity: The union of the three divine Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in one Godhead (state of being God...realiter) where all three are "co-equal," "co-eternal," and "co-substantial."

Old Jack's opinion

 

[Tex]

And to make really specific, "co-substancial" means "same-substance", or in non-philosophical terms, "same-being".

 

[Guestman]

Any statement that anyone makes and says it in the Bible must soundly support it with Scripture. Otherwise, it is nothing more than their opinion and of which the churches of Christendom are notorious. The Athanasian Creed defines the Trinity as: "The Father is God: the Son is God: and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods: but one God."


The Bible does not support this teaching. Rather, it establishes that the Father is God, for the apostle Paul wrote that "there is actually to us one God, the Father (not three Gods nor three persons), from whom all things are and we for him." (1 Cor 8:6a) Of Jesus Christ, Paul further says that "there is one Lord (not God), Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him."(1 Cor 8:6b)


Jesus further said that he and his Father are not the same person, telling the Jews: "And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. You have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his form."(John 5:37) And John established that "no man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him."(John 1:18; 1 John 4:12)


A clear distinction between God the Father and Jesus Christ as his "only-begotten Son"(John 3:16) can be seen.The word begotten means "1. father: to be the father of a child (archaic) 2. cause: to be the cause of something."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005)


Thus, Jesus had a beginning because he was fathered by God. At Revelation 3, Jesus says: "These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God."(Rev 3:14) And also within Revelation 3, Jesus says: "Become watchful, and strengthen the things remaining that were ready to die, for I have not found your works fully performed before my God." (Rev 3:2)


And then he also says: "The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name."(Rev 3:12)


These few Scriptures are sufficient for now for those who are reasonable to show that the Trinity is not in the Bible.

 

[Tex]

The bible totally supports this. Jesus even calls himself God on multiple occasions. The Jews then attempt to stone him to death because he spoke blasphemy. False teaching isn't death-worthy. Blasphemy is punishable by stoning. When Jesus made his I AM statements, they attempted to kill him.

Jesus is God. It is what the bible says, it is what the Apostles said, and it's what was taught by the church authorities from the beginning. Those that taught Arianism (pre-Arius too) do not have any connection to the apostles. Instead, they are misunderstanding the phrase "begotten of the Father".

If you look at disciples of Apostles, they very often call Jesus God. I especially like Ignatius of Antioch. He was a disciple of John the Apostle.

Here's a good quote.

"We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passible body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." ( The ante-nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, Vol. 1, p. 52 .)