ALL Israel will be saved

[TonyChanYT]

Romans 11:

26a in this way all Israel will be saved

Cambridge Bible:

“all” bears a less exact reference here, as so often in Scripture, and means “in general;”—“Israel in general, the Jews of that day as a great aggregate, on a scale unknown before, shall be saved.”

The word "all" does not always mean everyone universally without exception.

A few verses later:

32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

Another example of such a usage is in 2 Chronicles 12:

1 After Rehoboam's position as king was established and he had become strong, he and all Israel with him abandoned the law of the LORD.

In the NT, another example is Matthew 2:

3 When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him.

It is used to exaggerate the point.

See also The Deliverer from Zion will banish ungodliness from Jacob

 

[Cyd]

Romans 11:


Cambridge Bible:


The word "all" does not always mean everyone universally without exception.

A few verses later:


Another example of such a usage is in 2 Chronicles 12:


In the NT, another example is Matthew 2:


It is used to exaggerate the point.

See also The Deliverer from Zion will banish ungodliness from Jacob

Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

This was good Tony, if you read to the end of Isa 45 it says this:
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

So question to you... what does the seed refer to? Bio male sperm from Jacob? Is that all Israel? Plus any strangers or sojourners grafted in? I think so. Pedigree was house of the father (Nu 1:18) So then the big question... is it gentiles that need to be grafted into this? Israel?

 

[PinSeeker]

In Paul's context in Romans 9-11 and finally culminating in Romans 11:26, "all Israel," is in reference to all of God's Israel, which includes not all Jews and not all Gentiles, but called (by God, in His mercy and compassion) people of both ethnicities. And this is a subset of all human beings. Not all are called ~ "not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring" (Romans 9:6-7) ~ but only those elect of God... His elect, as He has mercy and compassion on those He wills to do so. And previously, In Romans 2:28-29, Paul defines who makes up God's Israel and thus are true Jews: "For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God."

Grace and peace to you, Tony.

 

[Cyd]

In Paul's context in Romans 9-11 and finally culminating in Romans 11:26, "all Israel," is in reference to all of God's Israel, which includes not all Jews and not all Gentiles, but called (by God, in His mercy and compassion) people of both ethnicities. And this is a subset of all human beings. Not all are called ~ "not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring" (Romans 9:6-7) ~ but only those elect of God... His elect, as He has mercy and compassion on those He wills to do so. And previously, In Romans 2:28-29, Paul defines who makes up God's Israel and thus are true Jews: "For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God."

Grace and peace to you, Tony.

Do you have any "saith the Lord" on any of this? Just asking

 

[PinSeeker]

Do you have any "saith the Lord" on any of this? Just asking

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."
[2 Timothy 3:16-17]

Grace and peace to you, Cyd.

 

[Cyd]

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness..."
[2 Timothy 3:16-17]

Grace and peace to you, Cyd

I didn't think so..
God bless you

 

[PinSeeker]

I didn't think so..

LOL! "All Scripture breathed out by God" and "Thus saith the LORD" are not equivalent statements to you? Well, okay, yeah, to each his own, for sure, but...

God bless you

And you also; grace and peace to you.

 

[TonyChanYT]

what does the seed refer to?

See In the LORD shall all the SEED of Israel be justified

 

[Randy Kluth]

Romans 11:


Cambridge Bible:


The word "all" does not always mean everyone universally without exception.

A few verses later:


Another example of such a usage is in 2 Chronicles 12:


In the NT, another example is Matthew 2:


It is used to exaggerate the point.

See also The Deliverer from Zion will banish ungodliness from Jacob

Often we put the "evangelical" sense of "saved" in this verse when it really seems to hearken back to OT political salvation for Israel. However, we know that political salvation for Israel was always tied to their obedience to the Law and to their faithfulness to God. When they obeyed God and were faithful to Him, He promised to deliver them from their enemies, ie to "save" them.

So a lot of this is a throw back to OT "salvation" in the sense of "political salvation," which was also tied to their spiritual fidelity to God. I say all this to agree with you with a particular slant. Yes, this is a general salvation, meaning it doesn't refer to a complete 100% evangelical salvation of every citizen of Israel. That would be a bit too "racial" for me.

However, if this is referencing "political salvation," then of course it is a "general salvation." When a country is delivered from its enemies, it doesn't require that nobody get killed. There can be casualties in Israel and still see overwhelming victory over their enemies. This is political salvation--the deliverance of a country "never more to be defeated," as the Prophets say and as Jews today pray for.

Not saying anybody has to agree with me, but it appears very clear to me that spiritual success is tied to political victory for Israel in the OT and will apply in the future if Israel is to ultimately fulfill her hopes. Just something to consider....

We are talking not just about the salvation of "individuals," as evangelicals like to emphasize. Individualism is a hallmark of Western liberalism.

Rather, we're talking about a corporate salvation of the nation Israel, in which an entire nation decides to adopt a Christian constitution and pledge allegiance, as a people, to Jesus. Seems a bit unpopular, but again--it's what I believe and something for everybody to consider.

 

[marks]

So a lot of this is a throw back to OT "salvation" in the sense of "political salvation," which was also tied to their spiritual fidelity to God. I say all this to agree with you with a particular slant. Yes, this is a general salvation, meaning it doesn't refer to a complete 100% evangelical salvation of every citizen of Israel. That would be a bit too "racial" for me.

Consider:

Isaiah 59:20-21 KJV
20) And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21) As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Paul goes on to say, and so all Israel shall be saved, while Isaiah goes on to say, " My spirit . . . my words . . . shall not depart . . ." from all your coming generations.

Much love!

 

[PinSeeker]

...we're talking about a corporate salvation of the nation Israel, in which an entire nation decides to adopt a Christian constitution and pledge allegiance, as a people, to Jesus. Seems a bit unpopular, but again--it's what I believe and something for everybody to consider.

Right, but who (or Who) decides who belongs to that nation? Is it based on one's ethnicity? Or is it based, rather, on God? Again, as Paul says at the end of Romans 2:

"...no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit..."​

And in Romans 9:

"...not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring..."​

And in Romans 11:

"...a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..."​

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Consider:

Isaiah 59:20-21 KJV
20) And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21) As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Paul goes on to say, and so all Israel shall be saved, while Isaiah goes on to say, " My spirit . . . my words . . . shall not depart . . ." from all your coming generations.

Much love!

Yes, what I'm saying is that there is a positive and unmistakable spiritual connection between Israel turning to Christ and Israel being politically saved, for all time, from her enemies. It is not (for me) every individual in Israel will get evangelically-saved, but that the entire nation will be saved *as a nation* from her foes, when the nation, as a whole, comes to Christ.

That is, a lot of people in Israel are going to get saved (evangelically). But the salvation of the nation of Israel is a "general salvation" because it is political and merely refers to the outcome and status of the nation as it is constituted, healthy and self-sufficient, in the land of Israel.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes, what I'm saying is that there is a positive and unmistakable spiritual connection between Israel turning to Christ and Israel being politically saved, for all time, from her enemies. It is not (for me) every individual in Israel will get evangelically-saved, but that the entire nation will be saved *as a nation* from her foes, when the nation, as a whole, comes to Christ.

So what you seem to be saying, Randy ~ correct me if I am wrong about what you are saying ~ is that outward Israel and inward Israel are one and the same. If so, no; see my post above (#11); yet again, "...not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring..." (Romans 9:6-8).

That is, a lot of people in Israel are going to get saved (evangelically). But the salvation of the nation of Israel is a "general salvation" because it is political and merely refers to the outcome and status of the nation as it is constituted, healthy and self-sufficient, in the land of Israel.

And I would say this is a misunderstanding of what the true land of Israel is. Jesus said, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth" (Matthew 5:5).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[amadeus]

Romans 11:


Cambridge Bible:


The word "all" does not always mean everyone universally without exception.

A few verses later:


Another example of such a usage is in 2 Chronicles 12:


In the NT, another example is Matthew 2:


It is used to exaggerate the point.

See also The Deliverer from Zion will banish ungodliness from Jacob

Consider also these verses:

Ro 9:6	Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Ro 9:7	Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Ro 9:8	That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are

 

[Randy Kluth]

So what you seem to be saying, Randy ~ correct me if I am wrong about what you are saying ~ is that outward Israel and inward Israel are one and the same. If so, no; see my post above (#11); yet again, "...not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but 'Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.' This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring..." (Romans 9:6-8).


And I would say this is a misunderstanding of what the true land of Israel is. Jesus said, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth" (Matthew 5:5).

Grace and peace to you.

No, I'm not saying that outward and inward Israel are the same. Israel is, of course, a single people and a single nation. But within that nation there are those who are faithful to God, and those who are not. And there are those not currently faithful who will repent in the future.

I'm talking about those who will repent in the future. Those who are saved now will go up in glory at Christ's Coming. Those who are rebellious will be judged at Christ's Coming. But those who are not yet Christians will, I believe, repent at the Coming of Christ.

So I'm premillennial, which means that earth's history will continue, as it is now, with mortal humanity still populating the earth, all while the Kingdom of Christ is established on earth in the form of international Christianity. Christianity already exists world-wide, but the promise is that it will be established, never more to be uprooted. The same for Israel--Israel will be delivered from international persecution, nevermore to be uprooted. You will find this theme and promise in the Prophets over and over again.

So the political deliverance of Israel as a nation is not the evangelical salvation of every individual in the nation. No, it is a political deliverance of the nation so that the nation, generally, can adopt Christianity as its national religion.

The "salvation" of Israel here is speaking primarily of its political deliverance. But this is all designed to lead to evangelical salvation and to the Christianization, generally, of the nation.

Until the New Age after the Millennium there will always be those in Israel and in Christian countries who are not true believers and who are unfaithful to God. I hope this helps you understand my position (not that you have to agree with it)?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Right, but who (or Who) decides who belongs to that nation? Is it based on one's ethnicity? Or is it based, rather, on God? Again, as Paul says at the end of Romans 2:

"...no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit..."​

I believe this to be a terribly misunderstood concept in the Bible, when Paul says that a Jew is "not a Jew" when he doesn't act like a Jew. It's like President Biden in the USA saying that "you're not a Black if you don't vote for me!"

Paul isn't really saying that unbelieving Jews are not "Jewish." He's just saying that they're not acting like Jews and not what God promised to Abraham, which were to be Jews who shared Abraham's faith.

All Jews in Israel or who aspire to return to Israel are "Israel," in the true lingual sense. Paul is talking about the spiritual qualifications of Jews to properly represent the posterity of Abraham. If they do not live up to their billing, they would be cast out. As you see many times in the Law and in the Exodus, God promised to "cut off" those Hebrews who did not act like "God's People."

 

[Davy]

No, I'm not saying that outward and inward Israel are the same. Israel is, of course, a single people and a single nation. But within that nation there are those who are faithful to God, and those who are not. And there are those not currently faithful who will repent in the future.

You mean faithful IN Christ Jesus, right? Those born of the seed of Israel that still reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ are not faithful to God.

I'm talking about those who will repent in the future. Those who are saved now will go up in glory at Christ's Coming. Those who are rebellious will be judged at Christ's Coming. But those who are not yet Christians will, I believe, repent at the Coming of Christ.

I don't believe all will repent, but that many of the Jews which God spiritually blinded until that day will repent, and believe on Jesus Christ then. Yet God's Word shows those will stand in judgment throughout the future "thousand years" reign of Christ (Ezekiel 44).

So I'm premillennial, which means that earth's history will continue, as it is now, with mortal humanity still populating the earth, all while the Kingdom of Christ is established on earth in the form of international Christianity.

That is not at all what the idea of Pre-millennialism means.

Premillennialism simply means Jesus' returns prior to the "thousand years" Millennium of Rev.20. How that "thousand years" period of Christ's future literal reign will manifest on earth is a different matter.

Ezekiel 40 thru 47 reveals the existence of God's House on earth for that future time, with the return of God's River of the Waters of Life, and the Tree of Life. And there will be a separation between Christ's servants living inside the holy city on earth, vs. the wicked who will dwell outside the gates of the holy city.

But all... peoples will dwell on earth in spirit bodies, not flesh bodies. The last day of this world is when all dwelling on earth will be 'changed' on the "last trump", and that includes all nations as per Isaiah 25, death swallowed up in victory, with the "second death" of the soul/spirit being the ONLY type of death remaining for the wicked.

The false idea that people in the flesh will continue on earth after Christ's return is a tradition from the Jews, which just can't seem to separate their thinking between flesh and spirit...

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV

 

[Randy Kluth]

You mean faithful IN Christ Jesus, right? Those born of the seed of Israel that still reject Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ are not faithful to God.

Yes, but as is the case with all unbelievers they have the opportunity to repent and accept Christ for the forgiveness of their sin.

I don't believe all will repent, but that many of the Jews which God spiritually blinded until that day will repent, and believe on Jesus Christ then. Yet God's Word shows those will stand in judgment throughout the future "thousand years" reign of Christ (Ezekiel 44).

I agree that many Jews who presently are in unbelief will repent at the coming of Christ. But I believe they will constitute the Christian nation of Israel in the Millennium. It's Christians in the present age, who overcome, who will play "judges" during the Millennial Age.

If we're faithful today, we'll judge in the future from a celestial position. Those on earth will still have to live out their earthly experience, including those who repent at and after Jesus' Return. My opinion...

That is not at all what the idea of Pre-millennialism means.

Premillennialism simply means Jesus' returns prior to the "thousand years" Millennium of Rev.20. How that "thousand years" period of Christ's future literal reign will manifest on earth is a different matter.

I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I agree. Other beliefs beyond this are our personal opinion.

Ezekiel 40 thru 47 reveals the existence of God's House on earth for that future time, with the return of God's River of the Waters of Life, and the Tree of Life. And there will be a separation between Christ's servants living inside the holy city on earth, vs. the wicked who will dwell outside the gates of the holy city.

I find that passage in Eze 40-47 difficult. It's my position that Ezekiel is being given a vision of Israel's future hope using the temple imagery of their present time. The temple, in other words, was a symbolic illustration of how Israel should've been worshiping in order to obtain their future national hope. I don't believe any future Temple will be built.

But all... peoples will dwell on earth in spirit bodies, not flesh bodies.

Well, if you're defining "flesh bodies" as the Sinful Flesh I can understand that resurrected people will not be "in the flesh." But if we're talking about physical human bodies, then I can't agree--physical resurrection implies restoration into newly-created physical bodies.

The last day of this world is when all dwelling on earth will be 'changed' on the "last trump", and that includes all nations as per Isaiah 25, death swallowed up in victory, with the "second death" of the soul/spirit being the ONLY type of death remaining for the wicked.

"Spiritual Death" is, for me, a kind of 2nd physical dying. People who reject Christ are physically reconstituted but eternally separate from close proximity to God and to His people.

Our 1st death, which is physical death for all mankind, was God's way of telling us He can't live with us as perpetual sinners. If we're to be restored to Him at all, in a final way, it will have to be in new physical bodies that are sinless.

But the wicked will never have right spirits since they've chosen to live apart from the word of God. So they can never enter into the presence of God, and will have to be physically separated from His city.

This is the 2nd Death. They will live in a place called "Outer Darkness." They will live without much spiritual light because they've rejected him who is the Light.

The false idea that people in the flesh will continue on earth after Christ's return is a tradition from the Jews, which just can't seem to separate their thinking between flesh and spirit...

Yes, the Jews believed it, and because Cerinthus carried the idea on in a carnal way, later Amillennialists completely rejected the idea of a literal Millennium. But many Christians have accepted a mortal population on earth in the Millennium, just as there are Christians on earth today who belong to God's Eternal Kingdom. This is not a travesty, but a reality now, so why not during the Millennial Age?

 

[quietthinker]

ALL Israel will be saved​

'Israel'?....its meaning is paramount. 'He who contends with God and prevails' as opposed to 'Jacob' meaning, 'deceiver'
'Israel' is a metaphor for God's people from Adam to the second coming of Jesus. Yes, in the final analysis, all Israel will be saved.

 

[Zao is life]

Consider:

Isaiah 59:20-21 KJV
20) And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21) As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

Paul goes on to say, and so all Israel shall be saved, while Isaiah goes on to say, " My spirit . . . my words . . . shall not depart . . ." from all your coming generations.

Much love!

Luke 4
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Is there is another covenant to be made when He takes away their sins?

IMO, there are many Old Testament scriptures which talk about the restoration of the Jews - of all (the house of) Judah together with all (the house of) Israel,

and if "history is prophecy" (as the Rabbi says), and if much of the history of Israel is "a type of what is to come" (as the Preacher says),

then Joseph forgiving his brethren after revealing himself to them, and sobbing so loud when he was reconciled to all Israel that the whole house of Pharaoh (the type of the whole world) heard it, and then took his entire Israelite family - which of course included Judah - to live with him in the idyllic land of Goshen during a prolonged period of peace, prosperity and safety,

then Old Testament prophecies in Jeremiah and Isaiah and Hosea and Ezekiel and ..

.. talking about the restoration of all Israel, are telling us what most Dispensationalists believe Romans 11 is saying, but isn't saying.

God bless the state named Israel, and I pray for God's protection of that state and its citizens, and of all Jews and Christians everywhere.