An Interesting Question

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I think you guys are arguing just for the sake of arguing. Do you even remember what started it?

Please go back and read post #4. The essence of the argument is the basis of eternity and human salvation.

The Bible states that at the point of death the human spirit experiences judgment.

"It is appointed unto men once to die and then comes the judgment."
Hebrews 9:27

At that point the decision of God is irrevocable in that the human spirit then undergoes a PERMANENT residence in eternity.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:41

For those who have made peace with God, it is for life with Him. For those who have continued in their rebellion against Him all their life there is eternal separation.
Note the reference in Mathew to eternity. This is a clue.

The argument then is based upon the death and blood of Jesus Christ which pays the penalty for our sins.

For God appointed us not unto wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
1Th 5:9&10

In other translations the reference above to waking and sleeping is also treated as living and dying.

also...

" But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
Rom 5:8

Universalists place this event in history, but do not acknowledge the finality of it, basing their righteousness upon "personal human growth" instead of basing it upon the death of Christ for those who accept it as God Himself does.

Fivesense has stated the Universalist fallacy himself when he says that sonship is "drudgingly retreived by hard study in the word".

In Christianity, there is no drudgery.
It is all accomplished by Christ.
There is nothing left for man to do except to receive it.

This argument goes to the basis of Christian salvation, Old Testament Jewish law, and personal experience.
Because Universalists do not accept the basic tenants of Christianity, they are classified as a cult; a demonically inspired shadow of the truth.

Please note that I am not using the term "demonically inspired" loosely or for the purpose of insulting anyone who has allowed themselves to be persuaded of this lie.
It is, in fact the same lie and temptation that was first issued to Adam and Eve way back in the beginning of the Bible.

for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.
Gen 3:5

The meaning of the above scene is that the enemy of God and man has tempted Adam and Eve to live their lives as they themselves saw fit, ignoring the commandements of God and their implications.
As Gods, they would be able to judge right and wrong and thus save themselves.
Nothing could be further from the truth or have such grave consequences upon the history of mankind.

That's the scriptural part.
The logical aspect of Universalism is that it is like swiss cheese; riddled with holes and ridiculous assumptions about life, death, eternity and the human condition.
For example, they assert that one can be both saved and condemned at the same time and that this condition would follow one into eternity.
In addition, they falsely claim that the grace of God allows men to work themselves into perfection, as fivesense has confirmed; when in truth the work of the grace of God is completed.

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up his spirit.
Joh 19:30

Read the dying phrase of Christ; 'it is finished'. This is a clue.

Sounds like Universalism is a house built on shifting sands to me.

 

[Hawkins]

Christianity is about Law.

Human legal system works like this. If you break the Law, you'll be sentenced, whether you understand Law or not, whether you read it or not, whether you ever study law itself or not. That's the case.

Similarly God's Law is embedded in your heart and soul. If you offended His Law, you'll be judged and put to jail. If you sinned you'll be driven out of His kingdom, the same as how Adam sinned and being driven out of Eden, and same as how Lucifer the archangel sinned and being driven out of heaven.

God is to save souls instead of bodies here on earth. Here on earth humans are basically not in His Kingdom. That's why the myseries. And everyone requires to pass the final judgment in order to return to God and His kingdom in heaven. And God foresaw that you won't stand a chance in the judgment. Jesus Christ is thus sent and a new covenant is in place which allows you to escape from the Judgment by Law.

If you refuse to take the new covenant, and when you are judged to be sinful, a permanent separation from God will be called. It is said that His sheep will take the new covenant. It is also said that those who aren't His sheep will continue to sin against His Law without repentance.

Moreover, it is said in the Book of Revelation that Satan (who is said to be an ex-archangel) is an accuser accussing people of sinning in order to keep them in jail with him. So good luck, either to find yourself a good lawyer or prepare yourself for the defense.

Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down."

Alternatively, take the Second Covenant as a gift such that the final Judgment by Law can be avoided.


Matthew 13:24-26
Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

So the OP's question is, how many kilograms of weeds will worth one kilograms of wheat. Or how many tons of trash will worth a ounce of pure gold.

God treasures only the wheat, not the weeds no matter how many tons they will be weighted. And only someone as self-deceptive as Satan will think that he won, over the tons of weeds.