AndtheMoonIntoBlood

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Trekson and veteran.

I just wanted to add, BACK ON TOPIC, that I believe that the passage about the sixth seal is quite literal:

Revelation 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV

I don't believe this is "symbolic" of anything. I think Yochanan was experiencing (ahead of time) a huge earthquake! And, what he saw was the sun being blacked out of the sky LIKE "sackcloth of hair" or the coarse, black, woven cloth from camels' hair that was used by the Bedouins to make their tents. He also saw the moon becoming LIKE blood, that is, he saw it go dusky red, just as it does during a lunar eclipse! That COULD be from debris in the atmosphere, OR like a true lunar eclipse, it could be because of "something" that eclipsed the sun from the moon, leaving just the penumbra to enlighten it. In a true lunar eclipse, that would be the earth, but in THIS lunar eclipse, I believe it could be from an asteroid or comet that gets in the way of the sun. In fact, the sun's blackout could also be an elipse - the asteroid or comet getting in the way of the sun's light to earth!

In either case, the "stars of the sky that fell to the earth" will most likely be debris from the asteroid or comet that gets trapped in earth's gravitational field and falls to the ground, like meteors and meteorites! (Meteors burn up in the atmosphere; meteorites survive the burn and portions of them strike the ground.) The "heavens departing as a scroll when rolled together" is similar to the roiling of the clouds above the force of an atomic bomb; however, THIS roiling of the clouds will be caused by the impact of the meteorites, much as in the movie "Deep Impact."

I also believe that this is the event to which Yeshua` referred in His Olivet Discourse:

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

Luke 21:25-28
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

Thus, Yeshua` added that the "powers of the sky" or the atmospheric weather would also be disrupted, and in Luke's account, that "the sea and the waves" will be "roaring," suggesting tidal waves! Again, this reminds me of "Deep Impact."

I have no reason to doubt that these verses will be fulfilled literally.

 

[Trekson]

I agree Retro.

 

[veteran]

Shalom, Trekson and veteran.

I just wanted to add, BACK ON TOPIC, that I believe that the passage about the sixth seal is quite literal:

Revelation 6:12-17
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
KJV

I don't believe this is "symbolic" of anything. I think Yochanan was experiencing (ahead of time) a huge earthquake! And, what he saw was the sun being blacked out of the sky LIKE "sackcloth of hair" or the coarse, black, woven cloth from camels' hair that was used by the Bedouins to make their tents. He also saw the moon becoming LIKE blood, that is, he saw it go dusky red, just as it does during a lunar eclipse! That COULD be from debris in the atmosphere, OR like a true lunar eclipse, it could be because of "something" that eclipsed the sun from the moon, leaving just the penumbra to enlighten it. In a true lunar eclipse, that would be the earth, but in THIS lunar eclipse, I believe it could be from an asteroid or comet that gets in the way of the sun. In fact, the sun's blackout could also be an elipse - the asteroid or comet getting in the way of the sun's light to earth!

We already know Rev.1 that John was being given a 'vision' by that. Thus it may have seemed to be happening in the 'vision' perspective John was in, but we well know it did not take place literally on earth yet. It's because that 'vision' is revealing the day of Christ's future return.

In either case, the "stars of the sky that fell to the earth" will most likely be debris from the asteroid or comet that gets trapped in earth's gravitational field and falls to the ground, like meteors and meteorites! (Meteors burn up in the atmosphere; meteorites survive the burn and portions of them strike the ground.) The "heavens departing as a scroll when rolled together" is similar to the roiling of the clouds above the force of an atomic bomb; however, THIS roiling of the clouds will be caused by the impact of the meteorites, much as in the movie "Deep Impact."

You're speculation on that as mere symbolism for supra-literal events will only get you farther away from understanding it. There will be a literal earthquake in Jerusalem on the day of Christ's return. It's written in Rev.11, the same in Rev.16:18 and in Isaiah 29:6 (Ariel put for Jerusalem).

There's no Biblical evidence that God's consuming fire on the last day of this world will be from meteors. The stars falling from the sky is a symbolic reference, because the idea of untimely figs is attached to it. John may have seen literal stars falling in the 'vision', but a lot of it was to serve as symbols for endtime events. Stars are also symbolic of fallen angels in God's Word (Rev.9:1; Luke 10:18; Rev.12:3-4).

I also believe that this is the event to which Yeshua` referred in His Olivet Discourse:

Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

If you want to think of that literally, then what would the 'brightness' of Christ's coming do to one's sight relative to the sun, moon, and stars in contrast (per Joel 3; Ezek.32:7)?


But that phrase, "the powers of the heavens shall be shaken", that's a different kind of reference isn't it?

Dan 8:9-11
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
(KJV)


The idea of an 'untimely fig' is about the winter fig, an early fig that grows in the winter and falls off in the spring. Weren't we foretold of a war taking place in heaven about Satan being cast to the earth with his angels? It's given in Rev.12:7 about a war in heaven between Michael and his angels vs. Satan and his angels, with Satan and his being booted out, down to the earth.

The timing of the great shaking of powers in heaven may appear out of order of the events of the 6th seal, but that's what it's pointing to with the untimely figs idea.