Angel of death
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aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
God's dark servant Azrael or possibly Samael
I've seen the angel of death in a dream and it wasn't a very nice experience.
I've seen the angel of death in a dream and it wasn't a very nice experience.
Not necessarily. Angels are in ranks and work in various areas of responsibility. Archangels are commanders of ranks and leaders in a particular area of service to God. The 'angel of death' is one of millions of mighty angels God uses to bring people through death to eternal life. To be honest, I am not positive that the unsaved are accompanied by angels when they die, because they go to a place of waiting for judgment, and are left without any source of communication with God.
Hnag on aminute: They go somewhere where they wait for judement. That's Purgatory. The Saints go straight to heaven and the believers who died with sins on their soul go to Purgatory so that they an eventually enter Heaven.
The UNSAVED however just go straight to Hell.
The UNSAVED however just go straight to Hell.
Purgatory? No such place. The unsaved dead go to what the bible calls, 'Hades', or 'Sheol' or the grave. Their spirits await their own resurrection to stand before the Great White Throne.
Hel, as in the Lake of Fire, is not open for business until that Day.
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Yeah, a soul dies and goes to prugatory so that on the day of judgement they an be sent to Heaven but they ahve to be a believer, otherwise they just sleep til judgement day and get sent to hell which is the lake of fire and as you say is not open for business until then. My personal theory is that before Christ everyone who died went to Sheol and since Christ's ressurrection they go to purgatory if they are believers and either sleep or go to Sheol if they are not.
I don't know if the Angel of death is supposed to be good or bad in so far as where he is aligned or affiliated but we can certainly see that in Exodus he serves God and we don't really know who the Angel of death is exactly. I mentioned Azrael and Samael but there are other possibilities like Michael and Uriel or maybe Angel of Death is more of a job that God assigns to any angel rather than a distinctly appointed angel.
i also don't see why an Angel can't escort the dammed to Hell or even the places of waiting like Sheol.
I don't know if the Angel of death is supposed to be good or bad in so far as where he is aligned or affiliated but we can certainly see that in Exodus he serves God and we don't really know who the Angel of death is exactly. I mentioned Azrael and Samael but there are other possibilities like Michael and Uriel or maybe Angel of Death is more of a job that God assigns to any angel rather than a distinctly appointed angel.
i also don't see why an Angel can't escort the dammed to Hell or even the places of waiting like Sheol.
Purgatory is unscriptural and doesn't exist. Believers don't undergo judgment at that Great White Throne occasion. Believers do not sleep when they die, but rather, their spirits leave their body (which renders them dead!) and go directly to God, because there is never any separation between the redeemed and Jesus Christ.
There is no room for personal theories. Base your beleif on the word of God. We all know that before Christ, everyone who died went to Hades--the wicked and the righteous. The righteous went to the cmpartment called 'Abraham's Bosom' or 'Paradise'. When Jesus died, He went there and preached to them, revealing Himself as their awaited Messiah, and took them out as captives of that place into their salvation, and heaven became open to them from that point. They were waiting for their blessed hope. since that day, all believers instantly arrive in heaven upon breathing their last.
There is no room for personal theories. Base your beleif on the word of God. We all know that before Christ, everyone who died went to Hades--the wicked and the righteous. The righteous went to the cmpartment called 'Abraham's Bosom' or 'Paradise'. When Jesus died, He went there and preached to them, revealing Himself as their awaited Messiah, and took them out as captives of that place into their salvation, and heaven became open to them from that point. They were waiting for their blessed hope. since that day, all believers instantly arrive in heaven upon breathing their last.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Did you know that Purgatory is apart of Catholic doctrine, not a personal theory?
Yes, I know this, but it was devised by men's minds and has no basis, least of all God's word. So, it began as a personal theory. However, I was addrerssing Templar's remark about his 'personal theory'.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I see. I think you would be surprised if you actually knew the Catholic doctrine on Purgatory. Most people confuse Dante's Divine Comedy with the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory - it is much different. The Catholic understanding of Purgatory is based on the cleansing fire talked about 1Corinthians 3:12-15. It is not a well defined doctrine at all - the catholic church simply acknowledges this verse.
I know about the doctrine of Purgatory. The fire spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3 is not a cleansing or refining fire, but is a fire that the believer's works are put through to determine righteous motive, and in turn will determine reward. This is the Bema Seat Judgent of Christ, and it is for those who are already believers and are already citizens of the Kingdom. The Catholic understanding of this event is feeble, which is clearly the reason why their doctrine is as you say---not well-defined. It is based on hot air.
It behooves those in the RCC who really know and understand the scriptures---know Jesus Christ---to make a correction in their thinking. I suppose that is too stubborn a mule to move. Traditions of men are like that.
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Choir Loft
Interesting post.
The ideology surrounding the doctrine of purgatory is based on the non-Biblical books of the Apocrypha. They were never recognized as being part of the cannon either by the Jewish community or the Christian community of the early church. It's primary purpose was to goad living believers into paying a tax to Catholic priests for prayer, masses, etc. to be said on behalf of the dead. Given enough prayers, the departed soul could be prematurely 'elevated' out of purgatory into heaven. The practice continues to this day, albeit not as profitable as it once was.
The 'angel of death' is not defined in the Bible. There are, as examples in this thread indicate, sufficient testimonies of its influence to allow for some credibility. Simply put, IT IS. Exactly what IT IS, remains a mystery. I have heard personal testimony from my step-father of a dark silent apparition standing at the foot of his bed one fall evening. Four months later the old man was gone. He was not one who submitted his mind to fantasies of that nature. I believe his experience was real, but as I said previously I have no idea of the origins of the creature. There are many mysteries in the heavenlies that man is unaware of. Only Jesus can guarantee safety in that realm.
No angel escorts the damned to hell. Of that I am certain. The word 'damn' means to lose. Jesus warned of losing everything in hell. C.S. Lewis, in his book THE SCREWTAPE LETTERS gave a very clear picture of what goes on, at least in part. The soul is quite literally 'eaten'.
The damned lose everything. First in earthly death they lose their life and everything associated with it. In the second death, they have no root or defense in Christ. Consequently they lose even the tiny bit that remains; the self. There is no concept of personality in hell, no idea of 'me' or 'what's mine' or even of the memory of earth. All is lost. ALL.
The secular notion of hell is of a place with flames of crimson, orange and yellow of sulfurous fumes and pain.
Read the words of one who has been close enough to the eternal fires as a man can get and still return to tell the tale.
The flames of hell are not red, they are black. There is no angelic or demonic 'escort', the disembodied human spirit is 'eaten' or consumed there.
The terror of it is extreme. Ever been in contact with an angry unclean spirit? It's frightening. Hell is worse, much worse.
There is no defense apart from Christ.
Seek Him and His mercy while you can, while life lasts. He is merciful and kind and will forgive all your sins and wickedness.
And when the time comes to depart this earth, there will be nothing to be afraid of....
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Well, we will have to agree to disagree. I just want to disagree for the right reasons.
Purgatory - the refining fire, is part of Heaven and only for Christians.
The reason the doctrine is undefined is because the RCC doesn't teach ideas about Purgatory that are not apart of Tradition or the Bible.
I am sorry you have such a condescending and negative view regarding the RCC, a church I love, but sometimes people refuse to look beyond their prejudices - I know I did the same thing before I decided to look into the church teachings I was taught to hate; it sure was surprising what I found when I really looked.
The refining fire is Holy Spirit who works on us while we are alive and living on planet Earth to be conformed to the image of Christ. The fire that Jesus uses to burn up our works is no refining fire, nor is it anything called Purgatory. It is His Judgment Seat for the righteous in the Kingdom.
The RCC doctrine of Purgatory is poorly defined because it is unbiblical and there is no authority under heaven given to teach it--so why do they? I have no prejudice toward the RCC, but I know what the truth is, and the RCC represents far too many embellishments to God's word to be worthy of following.
The personal theory part was my own speculation on what happened to those who died before the coming of Christ and that it is now replaced with Purgatory.
A soul or spirit cannot enter heaven instantly after death because it is riddled with sin, even if it is redeamed it is still riddled with sin which ahs to be pruged. Purgatory is the state of purging. Purgatory isn't a nice place you know. It has all the pain and suffering of Hell with the expception that those in there know that they won't be there forever.
A soul or spirit cannot enter heaven instantly after death because it is riddled with sin, even if it is redeamed it is still riddled with sin which ahs to be pruged. Purgatory is the state of purging. Purgatory isn't a nice place you know. It has all the pain and suffering of Hell with the expception that those in there know that they won't be there forever.
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