Apostles, teachers and other offices

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Where is the word alone? It just says we are justified by faith. If you read vs 9 it says we are justified by the blood. If we use your logic we need to add the word alone which means now we are saved by the blood alone. So which is it...faith or blood because we can’t have them both if we add the word alone. Even my 10 year old knows when you add the word alone it excludes everything else since you can’t have two things “alone”. When some one says I’m driving my car alone we know there is no one else in it. What other verses might you use to teach faith “alone”.
Ok, follow us,
Romans 5:1 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ". that word "Just" is short for justification which means "declared righteous". Romans 4:1 "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Romans 4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:4 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness".

now the "WORK of Faith" .... alone that SAVES US.

Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?".
Romans 8:25 "But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

NOW here's the wait.... "FAITH that saves us", fill in the blank. Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things _______ for, the evidence of things not seen". read Romans 8:24 above.

as we have said before, belief set the Goal "FAITH" is the work that go and get it. it is our faith, Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".

now lets make sure that's it's Faith "ALONE" ...... listen real good. Romans 14:23 "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin. we suggest you read that verse again.

PICJAG.
 

CNKW3

Active Member
May 7, 2019
997
147
43
52
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ok, follow us,
Romans 5:1 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ". that word "Just" is short for justification which means "declared righteous". Romans 4:1 "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Romans 4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:4 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness".

now the "WORK of Faith" .... alone that SAVES US.

Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?".
Romans 8:25 "But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].

NOW here's the wait.... "FAITH that saves us", fill in the blank. Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things _______ for, the evidence of things not seen". read Romans 8:24 above.

as we have said before, belief set the Goal "FAITH" is the work that go and get it. it is our faith, Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him".

now lets make sure that's it's Faith "ALONE" ...... listen real good. Romans 14:23 "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin. we suggest you read that verse again.

PICJAG.
Romans 14 is talking about our conscience. If you want to extend that we can. Rom says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God which means if God didn’t reveal it then you can’t practice it or preach it. If you are in a denomination you need to get out because God never said anything about a denomination so therefore it can’t be practiced by faith.
We are saved by blood Ro 5:9
We are saved by hope. Ro 8:24
We are saved by grace. Eph 2:5
We are saved by confession with the mouth Ro 10:10
We are saved by the word. Ja 1:21
We are to call in order to be saved. Ro 10:13
Baptism saves us 1 pet 3:21.
If salvation requires blood then it’s not faith alone. If salvation requires you call on the name of the lord then it’s not faith alone. If salvation requires confession then it’s not by faith alone.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Rom says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God which means if God didn’t reveal it then you can’t practice it or preach it.
Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith".

for Habakkuk 2:4 states, "Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith".

and what did peter say about our God "GIVEN" faith? 2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;2 Peter 1:6 "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;2 Peter 1:7 "And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.2 Peter 1:8 "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ".

see CNKW3, all these thing baptism, the shedding of blood, the grace we're in all by "FAITH", because if its not Faith it's sin.

PICJAG.
 

CNKW3

Active Member
May 7, 2019
997
147
43
52
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith".

for Habakkuk 2:4 states, "Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith".

and what did peter say about our God "GIVEN" faith? 2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;2 Peter 1:6 "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;2 Peter 1:7 "And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.2 Peter 1:8 "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ".

see CNKW3, all these thing baptism, the shedding of blood, the grace we're in all by "FAITH", because if its not Faith it's sin.

PICJAG.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. This is how God gives us faith. Through the word.
Are you saying people could believe or have faith in the death burial and resurrection long before it even happened?
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. This is how God gives us faith. Through the word.
Are you saying people could believe or have faith in the death burial and resurrection long before it even happened?
read the verse again, Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith".

the measure, not "a" measure. ecery man starts out with "THE" measure.

PICJAG.
 

CNKW3

Active Member
May 7, 2019
997
147
43
52
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
read the verse again, Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith".

the measure, not "a" measure. ecery man starts out with "THE" measure.

PICJAG.
I still once again don’t understand what you are saying. Earlier you think you taught me truth about Jesus when I still dont even understand what you were trying to teach. Are you saying God “gives” people faith without the word? Without any knowledge.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I still once again don’t understand what you are saying. Earlier you think you taught me truth about Jesus when I still dont even understand what you were trying to teach. Are you saying God “gives” people faith without the word? Without any knowledge.
Just as he do with "common sense". and with everything else, Matthew 5:45 "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

God made us all, and it is his will that all be saved, see 1 Timothy 2:4.

PS before you gave you life to God was you not in his good graces? yes or no.

PICJAG
 

CNKW3

Active Member
May 7, 2019
997
147
43
52
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just as he do with "common sense". and with everything else, Matthew 5:45 "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

God made us all, and it is his will that all be saved, see 1 Timothy 2:4.

PS before you gave you life to God was you not in his good graces? yes or no.

PICJAG
“Just as he do with common sense”? God don’t give everyone common sense as evidenced by this board right here. What does Mt 5:45 have to do with common sense?
Here’s the problem. You make a statement like....
“God made us all, and it is his will that all be saved, see 1 Timothy 2:4.”
You then expect me to know what application you are trying to make.
Also what kind of sentence is this?
“before you gave you life to God was you not in his good graces? yes or no.”
What does it mean to be in Gods good graces? Everyone is separated from God until obedience to the gospel.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
“Just as he do with common sense”? God don’t give everyone common sense as evidenced by this board right here. What does Mt 5:45 have to do with common sense?
Here’s the problem. You make a statement like....
“God made us all, and it is his will that all be saved, see 1 Timothy 2:4.”
You then expect me to know what application you are trying to make.
Also what kind of sentence is this?
“before you gave you life to God was you not in his good graces? yes or no.”
What does it mean to be in Gods good graces? Everyone is separated from God until obedience to the gospel.
we see you really don't know nothing, let's get enlighten, again, Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith".

1 Corinthians 1:26 "For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:
1 Corinthians 1:27 "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1 Corinthians 1:28 "And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1 Corinthians 1:29 "That no flesh should glory in his presence".

you might need to study a bit more, read, and read again the new testament.

PICJAG
 

CNKW3

Active Member
May 7, 2019
997
147
43
52
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
we see you really don't know nothing, let's get enlighten, again, Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith".

1 Corinthians 1:26 "For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:
1 Corinthians 1:27 "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1 Corinthians 1:28 "And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1 Corinthians 1:29 "That no flesh should glory in his presence".

you might need to study a bit more, read, and read again the new testament.

PICJAG
Once again. You post scripture and expect me to know what application you are trying to make. I don’t. I don’t know why you went from rom 12 to 1 Cor 1. I don’t see the connection. You are the one telling me that I don’t know anything and it’s up to you to educate me which means you do know everything. So is it you thinking more highly then he ought? Is that the point you are trying to make?
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2012
12,259
3,385
113
Mobile, Al.
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Once again. You post scripture and expect me to know what application you are trying to make. I don’t. I don’t know why you went from rom 12 to 1 Cor 1. I don’t see the connection. You are the one telling me that I don’t know anything and it’s up to you to educate me which means you do know everything. So is it you thinking more highly then he ought? Is that the point you are trying to make?
just use the "common sense" that God gave everybody.

well good night, pass my bedtime.

PICJAG
 

tzcho2

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2019
1,646
846
113
Boston
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That was not a cheap shot, and there was no need to quote the rest of your post, since you said you don't know for sure, and that Paul was not called an apostle.

Paul repeatedly said that he was an apostle called by God and Christ. He also tells that Corinthians that even though he was seemingly the least of the apostles, he confirmed his apostleship through signs, wonders, and mighty deeds -- the signs of an apostle. He personally met the risen Lord not once but many times. He confirms that he was the chosen apostle to the Gentiles, whereas Peter was the chosen apostle to the Jews.

Mathias was a temporarily fill-in for the twelve until Paul was commissioned and personally sent by Christ. Since there are only "twelve apostles of the Lamb", Paul replaced Judas, and in fact became the leading apostle as we see in his travels and also that over half the New Testament was written by Paul.

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God...(Rom 1:1)

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)...(Gal 1:1)

(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles) (Gal 2:8)

I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds. (2 Cor 12:11,12)
Selected Paul for a special purpose. But never called him an apostle.

So what was he?

I believe so because in some of his l letters he was identified as an apostle.

But he was different in the fact he was the only post resurrection picked apostle.

So those that have meaning? I don't know.

Doesn't mean Mathias was not an apostle? He didn't write in the books of the Bible.

Again, I do not know.

Really looked to be misleading to post only partially what CoreIssue posted about Apostle Paul.
Personally, I really think you two are on the same team.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Really looked to be misleading to post only partially what CoreIssue posted about Apostle Paul. Personally, I really think you two are on the same team.
I don't really want to make a big deal out of this, but CoreIssue was WAFFLING about whether Paul was indeed an apostle and the one who replaced Judas. So here is what he said (exact quote):
Selected Paul for a special purpose. But never called him an apostle. [waffling] So what was he? I believe so because in some of his letters he was identified as an apostle. But he was different in the fact he was the only post resurrection picked apostle. So those that have meaning? I don't know. [waffling]
Doesn't mean Mathias was not an apostle? He didn't write in the books of the Bible.[waffling] Again, I do not know.[waffling]


waf·fle 2
(wŏf′əl) Informal
v. waf·fled, waf·fling, waf·fles
v.intr.
1. To be unable to make a decision; waver: He waffled over whether to ask for araise.
2. To speak or write evasively: "The secretary waffled when she asked to seethe dean" (Rita Mae Brown).
v.tr.
To speak, write, or act evasively about (something).

n.
Evasive or vague speech or writing.

 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I don't really want to make a big deal out of this, but CoreIssue was WAFFLING about whether Paul was indeed an apostle and the one who replaced Judas. So here is what he said (exact quote):
Selected Paul for a special purpose. But never called him an apostle. [waffling] So what was he? I believe so because in some of his letters he was identified as an apostle. But he was different in the fact he was the only post resurrection picked apostle. So those that have meaning? I don't know. [waffling]
Doesn't mean Mathias was not an apostle? He didn't write in the books of the Bible.[waffling] Again, I do not know.[waffling]


waf·fle 2
(wŏf′əl) Informal
v. waf·fled, waf·fling, waf·fles
v.intr.
1. To be unable to make a decision; waver: He waffled over whether to ask for araise.
2. To speak or write evasively: "The secretary waffled when she asked to seethe dean" (Rita Mae Brown).
v.tr.
To speak, write, or act evasively about (something).

n.
Evasive or vague speech or writing.
Read my full post. I said he was an apostle.

On the road when chosen it does not say apostle.

I guess you didn't see where I was getting at.

A petty attack from one that dismisses problems with the KJV.