Apostolic Succession.

[Origen]

Peter had no authority to choose Mathias. Jesus plainly said He chose them, and only Jesus has the authority to Choose. Who is Peter to choose two men, then ask God which one? Peter had no right to do that. Jesus chose Paul. Mathias was never mentioned again.

Read Ac. 1:20-25.

 

[Grailhunter]

Those Jews became Christians (Catholics).



The Church founded by Jesus Christ and established by the Apostles was called the “Catholic Church” by the end of the first century–some 1400 years before the existence of “Protestants” (Christians that are not Catholic or Orthodox). We see this in the Letter to the Smyrnaeans by Ignatius of Antioch, which was already an established fact by the beginning of the second century:

"Follow your bishop, every one of you, as obediently as Jesus Christ followed the Father. Obey your clergy too as you would the apostles; give your deacons the same reverence that you would to a command of God. Make sure that no step affecting the Church is ever taken by anyone without the bishop’s sanction. The sole EUCHARIST you should consider valid is one that is celebrated by the bishop himself, or by some person authorized by him. Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH" (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 107]).

Nope

You can say that, but it doesn't change that they did.

I am not into repeating myself

 

[Origen]

Nope

You can say that, but it doesn't change that they did.

 

[Rockerduck]

Read Ac. 1:20-25.

I have many times. Peter had no authority given to him. period.

 

[Grailhunter]

You can say that, but it doesn't change that they did.

Posts 22...26...28...31....35

 

[Origen]

Posts 22...26...28...31....35

I aleady addressed those.

 

[Origen]

Peter had no authority given to him. period.

Jesus elected twelve apostles and gave them authority:

“Come after me, and I will make you fishers for men.” (Matt. 4:19)

"He called to himself his twelve disciples, and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every sickness." (Matt. 10:1)

"He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him Who sent Me." (Matt. 10:40)

"Whoever listens to you listens to Me, and whoever rejects you rejects Me. Whoever rejects Me rejects Him Who sent Me." (Lk. 10:16)

"I confer on you a kingdom, even as My Father conferred on Me" (Lk. 22:29)

"Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

"If you forgive anyone’s sins, they have been forgiven them. If you retain anyone’s sins, they have been retained.” (Jn. 20:23)

and so on...

Jesus made Peter first among his equals:

"I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in Heaven; and whatever you release on earth will have been released in Heaven.” (Matt. 16:18)

"Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in Heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in Heaven." (Matt. 18:18)

"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd." (Jn. 10:16)

"Tend My sheep" (Jn. 21:17)

In Ac. 1:20-25, Matthias was selected to replace/succeed Judas in apostleship.

 

[Rockerduck]

Jesus elected twelve apostles and gave them authority:

“Come after me, and I will make you fishers for men.” (Matt. 4:19)

"He called to himself his twelve disciples, and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every sickness." (Matt. 10:1)

"He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him Who sent Me." (Matt. 10:40)

"Whoever listens to you listens to Me, and whoever rejects you rejects Me. Whoever rejects Me rejects Him Who sent Me." (Lk. 10:16)

"I confer on you a kingdom, even as My Father conferred on Me" (Lk. 22:29)

"Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

"If you forgive anyone’s sins, they have been forgiven them. If you retain anyone’s sins, they have been retained.” (Jn. 20:23)

and so on...

Jesus made Peter first among his equals:

"I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in Heaven; and whatever you release on earth will have been released in Heaven.” (Matt. 16:18)

"Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in Heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in Heaven." (Matt. 18:18)

"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd." (Jn. 10:16)

"Tend My sheep" (Jn. 21:17)

In Ac. 1:20-25, Matthias was selected to replace/succeed Judas in apostleship.

Where does it say Peter has the authority over Jesus to choose apostles. Nice try. John 13:18, John 15:16, John 15:19, and John 6:70. Jesus says I choose you.

 

[Origen]

Where does it say Peter has the authority over Jesus to choose apostles.

"Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in Heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in Heaven." (Matt. 18:18)

"Whoever listens to you listens to Me." (Lk. 10:16)

 

[Rockerduck]

"Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in Heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in Heaven." (Matt. 18:18)

"Whoever listens to you listens to Me." (Lk. 10:16)

Peter cannot pick two and ask God to choose who Peter chose. Peter cannot usurp authority from God. Period. Bind in Heaven and loose on earth has to do with apostolic authority. not usurping authority from God.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Jesus made Peter first among his equals:

"I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will have been bound in Heaven; and whatever you release on earth will have been released in Heaven.” (Matt. 16:18)

Jesus didn't make Peter first among his equals as you suggest. Jesus wasn't talking about Peter per se. Rather, Jesus was talking about Peter's confession that Jesus is the Christ. Upon THAT confession, Jesus will build his church.

Secondly, Peter's authority extends only so far as his ability to identify and promulgate what has already been decided in heaven. (Verse 17) He is not given the authority to build his own church.

Matthew 16:16-17 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.​

 

[Origen]

Peter cannot pick two and ask God to choose who Peter chose. Peter cannot usurp authority from God. Period. Bind in Heaven and loose on earth has to do with apostolic authority. not usurping authority from God.

Usurping? lol. So dramatic and false. Jesus telling Peter that whatever he says, and those who listen to him, are listening to Him isn't usurpery, which means "a person who takes a position of power by force".

"They drew lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles" (Ac. 1:25). Matthias was chosen to replace/succeed Judas of Kerioth. That's called apostolic succession.

The more you know.

 

[quietthinker]

In an organism a hierarchy is required, so that it may be really active and wholesome, that is, someone who commands, someone who transmits orders, and those who obey. That is what happens in the courts of kings, as well as in religions. From the Hebrew religion to the others, even if they are so impure, there is always a chief, his ministers, the servants of the ministers, and lastly the believers. A pontiff cannot act by himself. A king cannot act by himself. And their dispositions concern only human contingencies, or the formalism of rites...

This system as described above is known as the kingdom of men. It is this system which Jesus inverted, he introduced a new approach which he called the Kingdom of God.

The religious systems of the world are a duplicate of the political systems. These systems have been used throughout time and ultimately end up oppressive irrespective of their 'good' intentions.

We are all familiar with the adage, 'todays liberators become tomorrows oppressors'

The Kingdom of God has a totally different premise. Jesus said, 'if you want to be the greatest, become as a child'. This logic is not understood in the kingdoms of men. It is in fact rejected......and the primary reason for his murder.

 

[Rockerduck]

Usurping? lol. So dramatic and false. Jesus telling Peter that whatever he says, and those who listen to him, are listening to Him isn't usurpery, which means "a person who takes a position of power by force".

"They drew lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles" (Ac. 1:25). Matthias was chosen to replace/succeed Judas of Kerioth. That's called apostolic succession.

The more you know.

Throwing dice cannot choose anyone who God alone can choose. You can't save you neighbor, only Jesus can. Peter has no authority in any way shape or form to gamble and choose who Peter wants, instead of waiting for God to replace Judas, and Jesus chose Paul.

 

[Origen]

Jesus didn't make Peter first among his equals as you suggest.

"I will give to you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven" (Matt. 16:19)

"Most certainly I tell you, whatever things you bind on earth will have been bound in Heaven, and whatever things you release on earth will have been released in Heaven." (Matt. 18:18)

"Whoever listens to you listens to Me." (Lk. 10:16)

 

[Origen]

Throwing dice cannot choose anyone who God alone can choose. You can't save you neighbor, only Jesus can. Peter has no authority in any way shape or form to gamble and choose who Peter wants, instead of waiting for God to replace Judas, and Jesus chose Paul.

The apostles asked God to show them who He chose to replace/succeed udas of Kerioth, and His choice was made known through them drawing lots, and when they learned it was Matthias, they elected him as the twelfth apostle, not Paul. It's all there in Ac. 1:20-25. You can ignore what it says but you can't change it.

 

[Rockerduck]

The apostles asked God to show them who He chose to replace/succeed udas of Kerioth, and His choice was made known through them drawing lots, and when they learned it was Matthias, they elected him as the twelfth apostle, not Paul. It's all there in Ac. 1:20-25. You can ignore what it says but you can't change it.

There is nothing in Acts 1:20 that says John or Peter could pick a replacement, or any of the 11 left, much less Peter who did not make the best discissions, you know, like denying Jesus.

 

[David Lamb]

Read Ac. 1:20-25.

Here are those verses:

“"For it is written in the book of Psalms: ‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, And let no one live in it’; and, ‘Let another take his office.’ "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, "beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection." And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed and said, "You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen "to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."” (Ac 1:20-25 NKJV)

No mention there of Peter choosing Mathias. The existing apostles prayed that God would show them which of the two men He had chosen to replace Judas.

 

[Rockerduck]

Here are those verses:

“"For it is written in the book of Psalms: ‘Let his dwelling place be desolate, And let no one live in it’; and, ‘Let another take his office.’ "Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, "beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection." And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed and said, "You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen "to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place."” (Ac 1:20-25 NKJV)

No mention there of Peter choosing Mathias. The existing apostles prayed that God would show them which of the two men He had chosen to replace Judas.

Still, nothing in any scripture says, let the apostles choose. They overstepped their authority that only God has. Look how God chose David. If it had been left up to Samuel, it would not have been David. God alone choses who will serve Him. Jesus chose Paul

 

[David Lamb]

Still, nothing in any scripture says, let the apostles choose. They overstepped their authority that only God has. Look how God chose David. If it had been left up to Samuel, it would not have been David. God alone choses who will serve Him. Jesus chose Paul

I agree. In fact I have clicked on the "Agree" button on several of your posts in this thread. I have not said that the apostles chose. I quote the passage from Acts 1, then wrote: "No mention there of Peter choosing Mathias. The existing apostles prayed that God would show them which of the two men He had chosen to replace Judas." I think you may have misunderstood what I meant.