Are groups like: IHOP - KANSAS CITY PROPHETS - BETHEL - JESUS CULTURE - RICK JOYNER - TACF undermini

[deceptionfree]

Are groups like : IHOP - KANSAS CITY PROPHETS - BETHEL - JESUS CULTURE - RICK JOYNER - TACF & the rest of the 3rd wave/ Latter Rain group are undermining the very fabric of Christianity?

Ever notice that the church is being filled with New Age teachings and practices?

Teaching like - contemplative prayer, the mystical side of prophecy and the likes...

Ever stop wonder if perhaps wolves in sheeps clothing have planted themselves at the very top of the sheepfold???

Do you know that high up in the occult and the satanic network that members are actually comissioned to start churches and prayer rooms in order to deceive the elect?

There is a push for a one world religion and it is coming in the form of the Emergent Church - headed up by yours truly - satan!

 

[IanLC]

Many groups focus on manifestation other than the inner man and character of the believer. Yes the Holy Spirit bestows gifts for the edification of the body of Christ and the perfecting of the saints for ministry (Ephesians 4:12 ) but more than that the Holy Spirit produces fruit in the believer(Galatians 5:22). These fruits help the believer to live out the main message of the gospel which is love(John 3:16). God's love to us and our love to Him in our obedience. I want it noted that these "New Wave", "Third Wave", "Word Faith" and "Neo-Charismatic" denominations are distinctly different from Classical Pentecostalism and Holiness-Pentecostalism. The new wavers are focusing more on the outward expressions and manifestations of emotions and the Holy Spirit and not rightly diving the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) and neglecting holiness and the lifestyle of the believer. I say if your experience and or so called manifestation does not align with the Word of God then it is not of God and the word holds presidence over any and all experience!
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."(Romans 8:14) The leading of the Holy Spirit is the most important you can have all the gifts but if you are not led by the Holy Spirit into the truth of God's word then you are not a son of God!

Here is a link where I had a similar discussion to this entitled "Warning to Charismatics": http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/16122-warning-to-charismatics/

Here is another line to my thread "Pentecostal not Charismatic": http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13861-pentecostal-not-charismatics/

 

[Foreigner]

Are groups like : IHOP - KANSAS CITY PROPHETS - BETHEL - JESUS CULTURE - RICK JOYNER - TACF & the rest of the 3rd wave/ Latter Rain group are undermining the very fabric of Christianity?

-- I personally know people who were blessed greatly by IHOP, now called IHOPU. They train people to evangelize and minister to all corners of the world.
Not to preach about " contemplative prayer, the mystical side of prophecy and the likes..." but that they are lost and but can be saved through Jesus, who loved them enough to die for them.

If you are going to make blanket accusations of evil against these organizations and people, you should at least provide evidence of that opinion.

Please start with IHOP. Explain why the tens of thousands of people worldwide who have given their lives to Christ through the efforts of this organization have actually been duped.

Specifics, please...

 

[deceptionfree]

Foreigner - I have done extensive research and if you click the link I have provided - it will take you to the blog post I have written. There is a large section dedicated to IHOP.

 

[Foreigner]

I read it. And reread it. You provide accusations and something someone heard someone say, etc. etc. etc.

Neither you nor the blog you quote from provides any evidence.

You also provide zero qualifications for the people making these accusations.

Accusations of activities that are not supported. Activities that are not sanctioned or practiced by the IHOP organization.

For you to be believed, the thousands of people that pass through their doors every year have to practice everything from intentionally misreading the Bible to outright Satanic practices, and somehow are not taking those practices with them when they leave.

Where are the actually people coming forward now that "the genie is out of the bottle?"

The one link you provide that goes to an actual article (http://www.examiner.com/article/ihop-under-scrutiny-for-cult-link-after-bethany-deaton-alleged-rape-murder) shows that the person who committed the crimes mentioned was not supported by IHOP, not a leader of any group within IHOP, and not following any type of protocol supported by IHOP.

It also includes statements from IHOP itself and its leadership confirming those facts. Police do not believe the organization itself had anything at all to do with this small group that was not practicing ANYTHING that IHOP teaches or stands for.

Your information is overreaching, unsupported criticism, at best.

 

[HammerStone]

Actually, self-linking to personal blogs aren't allowed here anyway.

Your information is overreaching, unsupported criticism, at best.

Let's just call it what it is. It's called gossip.

 

[deceptionfree]

No it's not - and if you do not believe me - dig a little more and do your own research.

Check sites like: fighting for the truth, appraising ministries, stop IHOP cult and fighting for the faith.

I am not the only one out there who can see through these people and their corrupt ministries. The emergent church is dangerous. As real bible believing Christians we gotta wake up and wake up now. Do any of you realize the times we are living in?! Do any of you ready your bibles and study bible prophecy? Well...

 

[IanLC]

Yes we do, well I can speak for myself. Yet the danger we enter is naming a whole organization, denomination and group of believers; "cultic" etc. That steps form mere study into judgementalism.


IHOP Statement of Faith
We believe that only the sixty-six books of the Bible are the inspired and, therefore, inerrant Word of God. The Bible is the final authority for all we believe and for how we are to live. (Mt. 5:18; Jn. 10:35; 17:17; 2 Tim. 3:16–17; 2 Pet. 1:20–21)
We believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnate, fully God and fully man; that He was conceived and born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, and offered Himself as a penal, substitutionary sacrifice for sinners. By His blood shed at the cross, He obtained for us eternal redemption, the forgiveness of sins, and life everlasting. He was raised bodily on the third day and ascended to the right hand of the Father, there to make intercession for the saints forever. (Mt. 1:18–25; Jn. 1:1–18; Rom. 8:34; 1 Cor. 15:1–28; 2 Cor. 5:21; Gal. 3:10–14; Eph. 1:7; Phil. 2:6–11; Col. 1:15–23; Heb. 7:25; 9:13–15; 10:19; 1 Pet. 2:21–25; 1 Jn. 2:1–2)
We believe that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. No ordinance, ritual, work or any other activity on the part of man is required or accepted in order to be saved. This saving grace of God, through the power of the Holy Spirit, also sanctifies us by enabling us to do what is pleasing in God’s sight in order that we might be progressively conformed to the image of Christ. (Jn. 1:12–13; 6:37–44; 10:25–30; Acts 16:30–31; Rom. 3:1–4:2; 8:1–17, 31–39; 10:8–10; Eph. 2:8–10; Phil. 2:12–13; Titus 3:3–7; 1 Jn. 1:7, 9)
We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ baptizes believers in the Holy Spirit, in whom we are also sealed for the day of redemption. The Holy Spirit regenerates, forever indwells, and graciously equips the Christian for godly living and for service. Subsequent to our conversion, the Spirit desires to fill, empower, and anoint believers for ministry and witness. We also believe that signs and wonders, as well as all the gifts of the Spirit described in the New Testament, are operative today and are designed to testify to the presence of the kingdom and to empower and edify the Church to fulfill its calling and mission. (Mt. 3:11; Jn. 1:12–13; 3:1–15; Acts 4:29–30; Rom. 8:9; 12:3–8; 1 Cor. 12:12–13; 2 Cor. 1:21–22; Gal. 3:1–5; Eph. 1:13–14; 5:18)
We believe that the one true God exists eternally in three persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—and that these, being one God, are equal in deity, power, and glory. We believe that God not only created the world but also now upholds, sustains, governs, and providentially directs all that exists and that He will bring all things to their proper consummation in Christ Jesus to the glory of His name. (Ps. 104:1–35; 139:1–24; Mt. 10:29–31; 28:19; Acts 17:24–28; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 1:9–12; 4:4–6; Col. 1:16–17; Heb. 1:1–3; Rev. 1:4–6)
We believe that when Christians die, they pass immediately into the blessed presence of Christ, there to enjoy conscious fellowship with the Savior until the day of the resurrection and the glorious transformation of their bodies. The saved will then forever dwell in blissful fellowship with their great triune God. We also believe that when unbelievers die, they are consigned to hell, there to await the Day of Judgment when they shall be punished in the lake of fire with eternal, conscious, and tormented separation from the presence of God. (Mt. 25:46; Lk. 16:19–31; Jn. 5:25–29; 1 Cor. 15:35–58; 2 Cor. 5:1–10; Phil. 1:19–26; 3:20–21; 2 Thes. 1:5–10; Rev. 20:11–15; 21:1–22:15)
We believe that water baptism and the Lord’s Supper are the two ordinances of the Church to be observed until the time of Christ’s return. They are not a means of salvation, but are channels of God’s sanctifying grace and blessing to the faithful in Christ Jesus. (Mt. 26:26–29; 28:19; Rom. 6:3–11; 1 Cor. 11:23–34; 1 Pet. 3:21)
We believe in the literal second coming of Christ at the end of the age when He will return to earth personally and visibly to consummate His kingdom. We believe that the Church will go through the Great Tribulation in great power and victory. We believe the Church will be raptured at the end of the Great Tribulation. We also believe in and are praying for a great end–time harvest of souls and the emergence of a victorious Church that will experience an unprecedented unity, purity, and power in the Holy Spirit. (Ps. 2:7–9; 22:27–28; Jn. 14:12; 17:20–26; Rom. 11:25–32; 1 Cor. 15:20–28, 50–58; Eph. 4:11–16; Phil. 3:20–21; 1 Thes. 4:13–5:11; 2 Thes. 1:3–12; Rev. 7:9–14)
We believe that Adam was originally created in the image of God, righteous and without sin. As a consequence of his disobedience, Adam’s posterity is born subject to both imputed and inherent sin, and all humans are therefore, by nature and choice, the children of wrath, justly condemned in the sight of God, wholly unable to save themselves or to contribute in any way to their acceptance by God. (Gen. 1:1–3:22; Ps. 51:5; Isa. 53:5; Rom. 3:9–18; 5:12–21; Eph. 2:1–3)
We believe that the Church is God’s primary instrument, through which He is fulfilling His redemptive purposes in the earth. To equip the saints for the work of ministry, God has given the Church apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. We also affirm the priesthood of all believers and the importance of every Christian being joined with and actively involved in a local community of the saints. We believe that women, no less than men, are called and gifted to proclaim the gospel and do all the works of the kingdom. (Mt. 16:17–19; Acts 2:17–18, 42; Eph. 3:14–21; 4:11–16; 1 Tim. 2:11–15; Heb. 10:23–25; 1 Pet. 2:4–5, 9–10)
We believe that God has called the Church to preach the gospel to all nations, to especially remember the poor, and to minister to their needs through sacrificial giving and practical service. This ministry is an expression of the heart of the Lord Jesus Christ and is an essential part of the kingdom of God. (Isa. 58:6–12; 61:1; Mt. 5:1–7:28; 28:18–20; Lk. 4:18; 21:1–4; Gal. 2:10; 1 Tim. 6:8)
We believe that Satan, originally the great and good angel Lucifer, rebelled against God, taking a multitude of angels with him. He was cast out of God’s presence and is at work with his demonic hosts to establish his counter-kingdom of darkness, evil, and unrest on earth. Satan was judged and defeated at the cross of Christ and will be cast forever into the lake of fire which has been prepared for him and his angels. (Isa. 14:10–17; Ezek. 28:11–19; Mt. 12:25–29; 25:41; Jn. 12:31; 16:11; Eph. 6:10–20; Col. 2:15; 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 6; Rev. 12:7–9; 20:10)

By my observation of their statement of faith I do not see cultic or unbiblical doctrinal stances.

 

[THE Gypsy]

I have a very close friend that is part of IHOP, and while I do not agree with everything in the organization, I have to say there isn't ANY group I agree with 100%.

Try telling these people IHOP is a cult...

http://exoduscry.com/

God bless them. Benji and his crew have snatched many from behind the gates of hell.

 

[soupy]

I am not the only one out there who can see through these people and their corrupt ministries. The emergent church is dangerous. As real bible believing Christians we gotta wake up and wake up now. Do any of you realize the times we are living in?! Do any of you ready your bibles and study bible prophecy? Well...

You really should take to heart the comments here, you, in other threads also make unsubstantiated statements, when questioned you attack or question the faith of the poster. If you have researched and found important information substantiate it here. Simply telling others to do their own reseach or question their Bible reading does not advance, what you believe is important information..

 

[IAmAWitness]

Thank you for your words, Deception Free. I knew a girl who got involved with IHOP, moved there to join the ministry and study in their school. I have heard of negative things about this group previously and I think that any report has to be weighed heavily as a matter of discern, not under modern evidentiary procedure which some in this thread are trying to do. Rick Joyner is false and the Kansas City movement is false. I have heard that IHOP leadership has cultic qualities but I wouldn't view them as being a cult. Many churches have cultic qualities.

You really should take to heart the comments here, you, in other threads also make unsubstantiated statements, when questioned you attack or question the faith of the poster. If you have researched and found important information substantiate it here. Simply telling others to do their own reseach or question their Bible reading does not advance, what you believe is important information..

As someone who is familiar with these movements he speaks of, I can verify that the heart of what he is saying is true. I have not read his/her blog but I am getting to it in a minute. The Kansas City movements have long been strongholds of false prophecy and false prophets. Todd Bentley, Brad McClendon, movements in Texas and across the nation have been influenced negatively by these men based in Kansas City, and while I do not know about the IHOP group in particular, I do know someone who is very active there, who I would not expect to get an unbiased report from, but whose views I highly respect. If it bears the fruit common to KC, then I am sure it is a false movement as well. I will look further into his links, but I will say to you that there is some information here that is critical to understand.

I'll give you an example of some things that should stand out in the blog posting.

> He contrasts the Kansas City Fellowship with David Wilkerson. This is important as you can see these are two that have very little in common. Wilkerson was a very mainstream preacher who sincerely and desperately called for purity in the church. He called for repentance, he preached the prophetic and he spoke the words of God. Then look at the next point...

> Kansas City groups "tell everyone not to judge, it’s all about peace unity and love, but when they are criticized they harshly rebuke and tell people that they are coming against God’s chosen."




I'll give you an example of some things that stand out to be in this blog posting.

> Deception Free draws a contrast between Kansas City and David Wilkerson. David Wilkerson was a good man who openly wept over the debauchery in the nation. He desperately called for repentance and spoke of prophetic things and he spoke the words of God. His life was marked by holiness and trying to make a difference. Compare that to Kansas City...

> "They tell everyone not to judge, it’s all about peace unity and love, but when they are criticized they harshly rebuke and tell people that they are coming against God’s chosen."

It is important to understand the role of the teaching about the "religious spirit" to understand the full meaning of this. Those who have made their opposition known to the Kansas City movement have been severely reprimanded and disfellowshipped for their criticism. The heart of the movement is schismatic, not the unity they claim it is. The religious spirit is an attack leveled against their opponents that the adherents acknowledge to be a final authoritative word on the credibility of that person and to say that they cannot be trusted. Any criticism, no matter how biblically based is met with this divisive attitude. I was kicked out of one congregation because I refused to let one of the ringleaders lay hands on me after being harassed by one of the members to submit to healing.

> Mike Bickle was a strong believer in Kenneth Hagin's movement, going so far as to expect his congregation to read his works.

> Augustine Acolla hid his homosexuality. My words, not DFs: Paul Cain also went into "recovery" for his homosexuality. Todd Bentley, a next generation of the KC trend, was requried to go into therapy after an affair with a staffer was uncovered.

 

[deceptionfree]

I have a very close friend that is part of IHOP, and while I do not agree with everything in the organization, I have to say there isn't ANY group I agree with 100%.

Try telling these people IHOP is a cult...

http://exoduscry.com/

God bless them. Benji and his crew have snatched many from behind the gates of hell.

God is Almighty and He will always work in and through Christians with a sincere heart. I do deny the power of God and that true bible believing followers doing the works of Christ will see success.

You really should take to heart the comments here, you, in other threads also make unsubstantiated statements, when questioned you attack or question the faith of the poster. If you have researched and found important information substantiate it here. Simply telling others to do their own reseach or question their Bible reading does not advance, what you believe is important information..

Sure - I apologize. I should provide the info here you're right. I have done a lot of research and it is not my right to push people to do the same. However I do believe that Christians should do research. If I have come across as one who attacks that is not my intention. I am passionate about the truth.

@IAmAWitness - God Bless

 

[IanLC]

Research on my personal level needs to be done before I give an opinion on whether the group is wholey and or fully unhealthy. I see by the several comments that maybe this is one of the groups that give spiritual "junk food" and "snacks" in place of having a "sufficient and full entree".

 

[THE Gypsy]

..... I do deny the power of God and that true bible believing followers doing the works of Christ will see success.

What?

 

[deceptionfree]

oops - I mean "I don't" - typed that from my iPhone

 

[williemac]

No it's not - and if you do not believe me - dig a little more and do your own research.

Check sites like: fighting for the truth, appraising ministries, stop IHOP cult and fighting for the faith.

I am not the only one out there who can see through these people and their corrupt ministries. The emergent church is dangerous. As real bible believing Christians we gotta wake up and wake up now. Do any of you realize the times we are living in?! Do any of you ready your bibles and study bible prophecy? Well...

I happen to personally know a man who works at IHOP. The church I attended for many years actually gives him some support. I met him years ago when he came in and filled in for a short while as a substitute pastor while ours was recovering from an illness. While you don't know me from a hole in the ground, I will personally vouch for this man's walk with God and his maturity in spiritual matters. I do not see him being involved in anything that would venture away from central christian doctrine and practice. One must be careful not to criticize things that are different than what one is used to. There are many denominations and various ideas that cause them to be different from one another. Its all too easy to throw stones from a distance.

As a deacon and an elder at various times, I can tell you that one never knows about some of its members in churches, members who have the potential to give them a bad name. We would be foolish and even disobedient to God if we felt we should prevent troubled souls from coming through the doors and attending, and settling right in. You never know when one of them will do or say inappropriate things. Sometimes damage control has to come into play. But I would never wish a church to be slandered because of what a few of its members think or do. Our mission field is right in our own back yard and sometimes within our own walls. But LOVE is the perfect bond of unity. Amen??

 

[marksman]

As real bible believing Christians we gotta wake up and wake up now

I am interested as to what constitutes a "real bible believing christian?"

 

[marksman]

By my observation of their statement of faith I do not see cultic or unbiblical doctrinal stances.

You could probably compare it with 99% of evangelical churches and find it almost the same.

I have read several of the books they have written and found it to be excellent material and I am not a novice.

A scripture that comes to mind is the one that says no one can say Jesus Christ is Lord except by the Spirit of the Lord. The Lordship of Christ is acknowledged by them so one has to assume that they have God's approval.

I have met John and Carol Arnott and found them to be very genuine. I am aware that many people have been transformed through a visit to Toronto. Their ministry has been to connect people with the Father. We all need that.

But I admit I have never visited any of their ministries, just read and read and read and I have read the links provided.

 

[HammerStone]

Well, groups are often judged by their fringe element, unfortunately. There are hyper-Calvinists and Universal Arminians, but that doesn't negate the Calvinists and Arminians who aren't in those camps, yet most often it's easy to go after those caricatures if you're on the other side.

I'm all for learning and being weary of dangerous ministries disguised as angels of light, but when it's a guilt-by-association argument - I just feel our time is better spent putting the truth out there to counteract the fringe members or questionable doctrines. We (myself included) are all too apt to subsume the persons into the groups they associate with and use that for implicit condemnation.

 

[IAmAWitness]

Point taken HammerStone, but the members of this fellowship all have lengthy records and while they have their own ministries, they are entirely interwoven.

Bickle for instance formed IHOP and is very close to Bob Jones, and they are very close to Paul Cain and John Paul Jackson. Bob Jones is also connected to Todd Bentley who's connected with the others of that group as well. They are all connected to each other and maintain close relationships. The connections between them are closer than you realize, that's why they're considered the Kansas City Prophets.