Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

[marks]

Robert was NOT saying Jesus was a JW corporate member. He proved Jesus was a witness to Jehovah using Scripture. All you got is this ridiculous claim, judging the proved argument invalid. Where is your response to Rev 1:5? Cricket ... Cricket ...Cricket ...

There was 1 reason only he made that statement. This should not be a difficult thing to discern.

[QUOTE="marks, post: 1435409, member: 7985"
Look at what he said, look at what he was expressing. He was divvying up people into "his group" and "not his group", and claimed Jesus for "his group". There isn't any mystery here to me about what was being expressed. Do you truly not see this?

It's just like Catholics defending the current Pope by saying Peter was the first Pope. No different. Identifying someone in history as if they were to be catagorized by your own set of beliefs, to link them to your group today.

God's Name, however you pronounce YHWH, is not "Jehovah". That word does not follow Hebrew pronounciation, and was formed by combining the spelling of God's Name with the vowel points from another word in later Hebrew. It's not a Biblical name of God, plain and simple, and is in fact a word formed for the purpose of altering the Name. So to say that Jesus was one of Jehovah's Witnesses is to say that Jesus testifies to the name people made up for YHWH, as if He were in agreement with those who do so today.

Jesus is the Faithful and True Witness, but not of "Jehovah", not of a false religion. This is misappropriation.

And in doing so to testify to the false teachings of these who seek to gain Jesus' identification with them by this sort of verbal manipulation. For instance Jesus does not testify that He is Michael, a created angel.

Considering this is Jesus Christ, the Faithful and True Witness - this is after He returned to heaven - and not Michael, Jesus testifies that it is Jesus Christ, and not Michael, showing that teaching to be error, unless you reject His testimony.

There is no Biblical support to claim Jesus as "Jehovah's witness", and it's only done to attempt to give support to this modern day Christianity-based religion. It's a word game, in short.

Whereas the very passage used to promote that idea specifically denies the teaching of that religion. Talk about irony!

Much love![/QUOTE

 

[Aunty Jane]

Only God himself knows if they're Christians, it's all up to him to decide..

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank God at least that is true....
I can’t believe that you are pulling this nonsense out of the air again....I have addressed all of these in detail with you already....you acknowledged none of the scriptural answers I gave you. You rely on wilful ignorance to guide your thinking and there is no remedy for that. You clearly believe whatever you are told because you want to....

It’s not about how you feel about these things but how God feels about them that is the prime consideration, as I have already shown you in great detail.

 

[Keiw]

That is not obvious at all. If what you are saying is true, where was the body from the tomb?

The bible doesnt say where the body was. But being Gods son, could appear as any one he wanted to once raised. God gave give all authority in heaven and on earth.

 

[Keiw]

Now go and learn what repentance means. Never mind I will give you a free Greek grammar lesson.

Repent is "meta-noeo" which simply means to change ones mind! meta= change. Noeo= mind (thinking). Now you will have to do something the Watchtower condemns, think for yourself!

These were for the most part good Jewish people! They were following the law of Moses as best they could, keeping the feasts and as Paul said, they had a heart for God!

What they had to change their minds on is who is Jesus and what did He accomplish! As is written all throughout the nT, they had to believe on Jesus as being their Messiah and dying and physically rising from the dead for their sins ! those who did that had their sin washed away! JOhn 3 is big on this:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Repent and turn around= STOP doing the sin. Thats believe on the real Jesus, not the fake one taught by trinities, nor Muslims nor Jewish. The real Jesus has a God like us, his Father-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Coll 1:3, 1Cor 15:24-28, Eph 1:13,17--1Peter 1:3--see even his real appointed teachers teach that fact. Then and now.

 

[DavidB]

The word itself! I know the Watchtower in their teachings have redefined the word resurrection, but their reasonings are a lie.

REsurrection as it is understood and was understood is a physical rising from teh dead.

Teh words themselves show that

Lexicon :: Strong's G386 - anastasis
Transliteration
anastasis ἀνίστημι (G450)
Greek Inflections of ἀνάστασις ἀναστάσει — 7x
ἀναστάσεώς — 1x
ἀναστάσεως — 16x
ἀνάστασιν — 12x
ἀνάστασις — 6x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: resurrection (39x), rising again (1x), that should rise (1x), raised to life again (with G1537) (1x).

Strong’s Definitions G450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):—raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.

This word comes from two Greek words. ana= again stasis = standing. So it is a standing AGAIN. In order for someone to be resurrected according to eh word itself, what was laid down has to be stood up again!

egeirō (Key)

The KJV translates Strong's G1453 in the following manner: rise (36x), raise (28x), arise (27x), raise up (23x), rise up (8x), rise again (5x), raise again (4x), miscellaneous (10x).
Outline of Biblical Usage G58 (through the idea of collecting one's faculties); to waken (transitively or intransitively), i.e. rouse (literally, from sleep, from sitting or lying, from disease, from death; or figuratively, from obscurity, inactivity, ruins, nonexistence):—awake, lift (up), raise (again, up), rear up, (a-)rise (again, up), stand, take up.


these are teh exact same words to describe Lazarus rising from the dead and the resurrection of all souls at the end.

It was understood by all this was a physical resurrection. Even the bible says Jesus would not see corruption but be raised.! The watchtower has to create a story of "God destroying the body of Jesus and that Jesus manufactured bodies as needed to prove He was risen from the dead." That is not found in the bible.

Correct. Every resurrection prior to the resurrection of Jesus was physical. You are ignoring 1 Corinthians 15. Jesus was the first fruits of a resurrection to a spirit body.

 

[Keiw]

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Continued From No.775


I assume you are not one of the anointed folks spoken of by 1John 2:26-27.
If so, then you are deprived of the advantages that the anointing provides;
which are:

1» Protects people from deception

2» Enables people to comprehend Jesus Christ's teachings the way he wants
them comprehended.

3» Makes it possible for people to remain in union with him.

Ergo; if you are satisfied with JW teachers, then it can mean but one
thing: they don't have the anointing any more than you do, because if they
really did, then you wouldn't be listening to their teachings, i.e. birds of a
feather flock together.

I'd imagine that quite a few ordinary Witnesses sincerely believe that their
association with the Watchtower Society keeps them in union with Jesus
Christ; but according to 1John 2:26-27, union with God's son isn't
accomplished on the coattails of an organization; it's accomplished by means
of the anointing.
_

You are mistaken. The JW leaders are anointed they are these-Matt 24:45

 

[Wrangler]

The fact that my POV may appear similar to someone else's POV does not mean that mine POV was derived from their POV.

What a straw man argument. Jesus is a witness to God Jehovah, period. It doesn't matter the derivation. Talk about moving the goal posts.

 

[Wrangler]

God's Name, however you pronounce YHWH, is not "Jehovah".

You are hopeless! I provided the definition of Jehovah, which is the English translation of YHWH. He provided the Scripture of Jesus being Jehovah's Witness. I posted that verse proving what he said is correct. What is your problem?

 

[Wrangler]

The bible doesnt say where the body was. But being Gods son, could appear as any one he wanted to once raised. God gave give all authority in heaven and on earth.

Yea, this along the lines of my thoughts. Jesus only has one glorified body. He may have appeared different but appearance does not mean an actual different body.

 

[The Learner]

.
Continued From No.645


Having the Holy Spirit (a.k.a. the Comforter) alongside is not the same as
having the Holy Spirit inside. I think if you do some research you'll discover
that only anointed JWs have the Spirit inside. In other words; the 144,000
are the JWs who've received the Spirit, whereas the rank and file are merely
associated with the Spirit.
_

"
And if we add to 1 Peter 4:14, the wider scope of the Spirit’s work, the enticements get better and better, and more and more.

• We know from John 3:5 that it’s the Holy Spirit that causes us to be born again. “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
  
  
• We know from 1 Corinthians 12:3, “No one can say ‘Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.”
  
  
• We know from Romans 8:13 that you must put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit or perish.
  
  
• We know from 2 Thessalonians 2:13 that all our efforts to pursue holiness will be hopeless because sanctification is by the Spirit.
  
  
• We know from Ephesians 1:17 that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of wisdom and that, without him, you will live lives of absolute foolishness. Look around the world. Insanity. Because the Holy Spirit inhabits so few. And he’s the Spirit of wisdom.
  
  
• We know from 1 Corinthians 12:7, that “to each [believer] is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.”
  
  
• We know from Romans 8:11 that “if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.”
  

No Spirit, no resurrection. No Spirit, no new birth. No Spirit, no confession of the lordship of Jesus. No Spirit, no victory over sin. No Spirit, no progress in sanctification. No Spirit, no spiritual wisdom. No Spirit, no spiritual gifts, and no resurrection.

Why would you not seek him? "
No Spirit, No Salvation

 

[The Learner]

not sure where you get your theology at . but this is left out field theology way out left field

Please explain

 

[The Learner]

wow made it to here

 

[marks]

You are hopeless! I provided the definition of Jehovah, which is the English translation of YHWH. He provided the Scripture of Jesus being Jehovah's Witness. I posted that verse proving what he said is correct. What is your problem?

Simply stated, this is all to dodge around my assessment of his comment, which I stand by. No credible alternative has been offered. This was the insertion of "Jehovah" into a passage in the Revelation (not supposed to add to that, btw) in a bid to make it seem that Robert traces back to Jesus Himself, as do all of "Jehovah's Witnesses", these who deny Jesus is even Jesus, that He is in reality the archangel Michael, even as the Revelation presents Jesus as Jesus Christ Himself, not another, not a created angel. These who deny the bodily resurrection of Christ. That having come in flesh, yet though He resurrected, not still in flesh, contrary to John's test of what is antichrist.

The origin of the name, the meaning of the name, these are non-sequitor. And if I remember correctly, didn't the Masoretes add the vowel points to indicate that was what should be read, said, so as to avoid pronouncing God's Name, which was not contained in the vowel points? That the vowel points of Adonai were used? So when they come to YHWH they would say Adonai? Am I remembering correctly? Wouldn't that be actually contrary towards using that version of God's Name? Not to give a pronounciation of God's Name, but to prevent pronounciation of His Name?

Much love!

 

[marks]

What a straw man argument. Jesus is a witness to God Jehovah, period. It doesn't matter the derivation. Talk about moving the goal posts.

No it's not. Even if your claim were true, it's the Genetic Fallacy. It's not true, and is a Causal Fallacy. It's not a valid argument.

You maintain that we should call YHWH "Jehovah", I don't think that is correct, but that was not my objection so much as it is Robert sliding that into the passage to gave a play on words that reflects well on him and his religion.

It's a simple thing to acknowledge and move on but you are not doing that. And Robert has not responded at all.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

Simply stated, this is all to dodge around my assessment of his comment, which I stand by. No credible alternative has been offered.

and from Jesus the Anointed, the Witness who is true and faithful, the first to emerge from death’s cold womb, the chosen Ruler over all the kings and rulers of the earth.

To the One who loves us and liberated us from the grip of our evil deeds through His very own blood

You are the one who has not offered a credible alternative to explicit Scripture @ Rev 1:5 that states Jesus is THE Witness to God Jehovah. Can you understand how this could be interpreted as support for the organization that goes by that name?

 

[Wrangler]

No it's not. Even if your claim were true, it's the Genetic Fallacy. It's not true

Again, it is not a fallacy because it is not an argument. Robert quoted Scripture that proves his point.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Continued From No.788

The JW leaders are anointed

Seeing as how you yourself lack the advantages listed in 1John 2:26-27,
then I think you pretty much have to concur that what you've been doing up
till now is taking your leaders' word for it.
_

 

[Keiw]

Yea, this along the lines of my thoughts. Jesus only has one glorified body. He may have appeared different but appearance does not mean an actual different body.

Its not worth discussing since the bible says 0 about it.

 

[Keiw]

.
Continued From No.788


Seeing as how you yourself lack the advantages listed in 1John 2:26-27,
then I think you pretty much have to concur that what you've been doing up
till now is taking your leaders' word for it.
_

A wise thing to do since Jesus was clear that if one listens to his appointed teachers, its the same as listening to him, if one doesnt listen, they are rejecting them, Jesus and his Father. Luke 10:16-- I know 100% that the teachings of Jesus and Facts of true God worship history back the JW teachers 100%. There is no better backing. So where does that leave the rest? I attended different trinity religions years ago in my search for Jesus. Those teachers get paid to teach their religions brand of dogma and very little of what Jesus teaches. My teachers teach us the whole bible.= Every utterance from God--Jesus taught man must live by them. How can they obey Jesus when they dont know what he teaches? And if a teacher isnt teaching every utterance from God-they most assuredly do not have Jesus.

 

[Dropship]

..I can’t believe that you are pulling this nonsense out of the air again...I have addressed all of these in detail with you already....you acknowledged none of the scriptural answers I gave you..

Your "scriptural answers" were just JW interpretations not shared by the majority of Christians..
For example I don't think there are any scriptures telling people to die rather than have transfusions.