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Are The Old Testament Books Now Dead History?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by veteran, Feb 10, 2011.

  1. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Why did The LORD say this...

    Hebrews 10:7
    Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of Me,) to do Thy will, O God.

    That was quoted from Psalms 40:7. Does that mean all the Old Testament Books are now dead history for Christ's Church? Are there any other proofs like this in the New Testament Books?
  2. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    United States
    Well, with some of the doctrine out there you'd think the eulogy was complete for the Old Testament.

    I know the number fluctuates, but we can say there are at least around 300 direct quotations of the Old Testament in the New Testament. There are countless allusions to the Old Testament. They're found in everything from the teaching of Christ (Matthew 5 as one prime example) to the exposition of later Apostles and Christ himself (books like Revelation, both epistles to the Corinthians, Jude, etc.). From passages like Matthew 5, the OT books clearly had an application for Christ. I'd say there are numerous examples; we just have to start reading with eyes to see and ears to hear.
  3. Martin W.

    Martin W. Active Member

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    I read Hebrews 10 where it says it is the law that needs to be retired (not the complete Old Testament)
    As well it says .... "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings" .... are no longer required (since Christ)
    I think those are the "dead history" portions , not all of the OT. At least that is how I see it.

    Would you not also agree there remains a portion of Old Testament prophecy that still has to be fulfilled ?
    Lots of the OT is history yes, but still some good current and future info for us there.
  4. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    Isaiah 2:2-4 (NKJV)
    [sup]2 [/sup]Now it shall come to pass in the latter days That the mountain of the Lord's house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow to it. [sup]3 [/sup]Many people shall come and say, "Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths." For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. [sup]4 [/sup]He shall judge between the nations, And rebuke many people; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war anymore.

    Isaiah 11:6-9 (NKJV)
    [sup]6 [/sup]"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, The leopard shall lie down with the young goat, The calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them. [sup]7 [/sup]The cow and the bear shall graze; Their young ones shall lie down together; And the lion shall eat straw like the ox. [sup]8 [/sup]The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole, And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den. [sup]9 [/sup]They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea.

    Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
    [sup]1 [/sup]Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. [sup]2 [/sup]For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. [sup]3 [/sup]Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. [sup]4 [/sup]And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.

  5. Eccl.12:13

    Eccl.12:13 New Member

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    And let's not forget these......

    [23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

    Zech. 14
    [16] And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
    [18] And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
    [19] This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

    And then there is this one.....

    [9] Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

  6. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

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    And let's certainly not forget this. It could be eternally fatal.

    Galatians 5:3-4 (NKJV)
    [sup]3 [/sup]And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. [sup]4 [/sup]You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

  7. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    Right; I do agree with that pretty much, except not how you might be referring to God's laws. Much of the New Testament Books won't be understood without first understanding the Old Testament Books, especially the OT prophets. Because the NT quotes directly from the OT Books so often it has to mean anyone trying to throw the OT Books away is not of God and His Christ. And there's a major difference between the Old Covenant and God's laws.

    Heb 10:15-18
    15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that He had said before,
    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
    18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

    Col.2:14 and Eph.2:14-15 is specific that our Lord Jesus nailed the "handwriting of ordinances" in the law to His cross. Those ordinances have to do with religious ritual and sacrifices per the Old Covenant. God saying He would write His laws in our hearts and minds per the New Covenant reveals His laws that He did not nail to His cross.

    In Acts 15, the Apostles at Jerusalem sent word by testimony and letters through Apostle Paul and Barnabas to the Gentiles among the Churches at Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia. They were told no other burden would be upon them except to abstain from meats sacrificed to idols, from blood (eating or drinking it), from eating things strangled, and from fornication. Those burdens are from God's laws.

    Apostle Paul continued to preach that among the Gentile believers, but also covered a lot more from God's law in Romans 1 and Galatians 5. In Galatians 5 he preached that IF we walk by The Spirit, then we are not under the law. Then he gave some very specific flesh sins in Gal.5 of walking by the flesh, and said those who do them will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

    Just so there's no doubt Paul said that, here it is...

    Gal 5:16-21
    16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like
    : of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    In Romans 1 Apostle Paul covered a few more sins of the flesh that go with that list.

    So how is it Paul preaches that under the New Covenant? It's because God's laws minus the "ordinances" are still in effect today upon those who walk by their flesh. That means us too IF... we fail to follow The Holy Spirit Comforter our Lord Jesus promised us. The Holy Spirit is the filler of the void for us under the New Covenant through Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is God writing His laws in our hearts and minds under the New Covenant like Hebrews 10:16 declares.

    One of the worst false traditions is the idea that by only believing on Jesus Christ then we can then go out in the world and do whatever we want, forsaking those warnings our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave of what will happen with a walk by our flesh. The false teaching that God's law is the Old Covenant is what leads to that deception of falling away from Christ. God establishing His laws in the hearts and minds of Christians is part of His establishing of the New Covenant. The Holy Spirit will never teach us to go against God's laws and will warn us when we get away from them, IF... we have The Holy Spirit in us and listen to Him instead of our flesh.

    And HOW can that be understood without understanding in all of God's Word, including the Old Testament Books? That's why the foxes and hirelings that have crept into Christ's Body want us to think all the Old Testament Books are now dead history. It's so they can try to use their own leaven traditions to replace God's commandments, statutes, and judgments with something else. That is one of the specific workings of antichrist, seeking to change times and laws (Dan.7:25).

    This is why many false things are now being accepted in a lot of today's Church systems that never were part of Christian Doctrine from God's Word. And it's how the great apostasy of many believers on our Lord Jesus is taking place today.