ARE YOU ABLE TO HEAL THE SICK?

[Doug]

Hey Doug,

I am someone who just believes Yahavah is calling to all people today.

Regardless if a person knows everything about Jesus, or perhaps they dont even got a bible to read.

Yahavah can connect to those whom look towards him, and those who are absent of him, Yahavah continues to call out to all for those who are willingly to turn to him.

He will write on their hearts and minds.

Ok Matthew

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The new covenant in Jeremiah refers only to Israel....they will come into the land and be given a new heart to obey the law

You forgot that the gentiles come to the Lord under the New Covenant.

The old covenant has been taken away by Jesus so He could establish the New Covenant - Hebrews 10:9

You should study the New Covenant and learn more about it.

 

[Doug]

You forgot that the gentiles come to the Lord under the New Covenant.

Gentiles arent of the house of Israel and Judah

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Gentiles arent of the house of Israel and Judah

Jesus said if a man is not born again they cannot enter in to His Kingdom.

Whether Jew or gentile, those not getting born again go to hell.

 

[Doug]

Jesus said if a man is not born again they cannot enter in to His Kingdom.

Whether Jew or gentile, those not getting born again go to hell.

Jesus was saying that Israel had to be born again

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus was saying that Israel had to be born again

OK, so those that are not Jews don't have to get born again to be saved, got it.

When Jesus in John 3:3 states, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." - He is speaking to all of mankind.

No man, Jew or gentile and enter in to the Kingdom of God without first being born again

You should stick with God's Word!

 

[rebuilder 454]

You forgot that the gentiles come to the Lord under the New Covenant.

The old covenant has been taken away by Jesus so He could establish the New Covenant - Hebrews 10:9

You should study the New Covenant and learn more about it.

Paul as well as ALL THE APOSTLES preached the exact same message of salvation through Jesus.
I sat under those hyperpauline teachers.
EVERY ONE of them is cessationist.

Hyperpauline doctrine is a heresy.
They say as much outlandish nonsense as watchtower

 

[rockytopva]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...


Mass (m) = Plasma (E/c2) --- Making this eternal stuff

Photons and electrons have a relationship in that they both travel at the speed of light. The electrons are tied into the atom with protons and neutrons.

A human cell... Consisting of trillions of atoms
A human body... Consisting of trillions of living cells


Most mass of the earth consists of silicon. What could I do with silica sand save make sand castles? Man is made out of the clay of the earth. Only God can form or reform us. I can comfort or pray for people... It is God that brings the healing.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Paul as well as ALL THE APOSTLES preached the exact same message of salvation through Jesus.
I sat under those hyperpauline teachers.
EVERY ONE of them is cessationist.

Hyperpauline doctrine is a heresy.
They say as much outlandish nonsense as watchtower

Agreed.

 

[KUWN]

[Mark 16:15-18 KJV] 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

There are those that say all that Jesus taught, preached, and commanded pertains to us. All that Jesus gave the disciples was intended to be ours as well, and is for us to claim.

Mark 16:18 above says that those who believe will heal the sick in his name. If you think all Jesus said to the disciples was directed to you as well then you should expect to be able to heal. How many multitudes have you healed? Jesus healed multitudes and his fame spread abroad. Why is it we hear of no one in this dispensation renowned for true healings?

I am sure there will be refutes and explanations as to why you aren't able to heal.

One may say, well this is the spiritual healing Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 12. The Spirit gives the gifts of signs at his will. This is not the case; the signs in 1 Corinthians 12 speak of the gifts given to the body of Christ. The body of Christ wasn't being formed during Christ's earthly ministry when he spoke in Mark 16. Not all received the gift of healing in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:8 30), so this would mean the healing in Mark 16:18 didn't apply to you after all. If this is the case, then it must be acknowledged that not all that Jesus gave the disciples was intended to be to us as well.

One may say, Jesus didn't mean all would be healed, only some. Jesus didn't say some would be healed, he said those that believe, there are no limitations expressed.

One may say all the signs in Mark 16:17-18 were intended to be exhibited in the future. Now this may be the case, and explains why this passage wasn't meant for you after all. Let's examine this.

In the book of Acts we can find some of these signs being fulfilled by the disciples, but not all.

Lets look at the signs here again.

[Mark 16:17-18 KJV] 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Peter had the sign of healing

[Act 3:7 KJV] 7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted [him] up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

Philip exhibited the signs of casting out devils and healing.

[Act 8:7 KJV] 7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed [with them]: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

The disciples spoke with tongues.

[Act 2:4 KJV] 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

What is not recorded in scripture is the ability to take up serpents and not being hurt by drinking any deadly thing.

in Acts 28:5 Paul was bitten by a snake and felt no harm, but there is no record of this for Peter and the disciples.

I would say not all the signs in Mark were exhibited by the disciples, so not all that was said in this passage by Jesus pertained to them; why would you still think that all Jesus said would be given to you.

It may be that none of these signs were meant to be exhibited until the future when all the world would have the gospel preached unto them. Jesus confirmed the preaching of the disciples with signs (Mark 16:20 Acts 5:12 8:13); maybe the signs they were given during their ministry were not the same signs in Mark 16:17-18. None the less, even if the case, this passage would not apply to you as well.

The words of Jesus were to be received and obeyed, but by Israel. We can learn from all of the words of Christ.

The preponderance of evidence is that Mark 16:9 to 20 was not found in the original manuscripts. Most translations put this text in small letters and brackets around the verses. Whatever you want to argue/discuss about signs/miracles/languages, you certainly do not want to base any argument using the text of vss 9 to 20.

I will repost a treatment of Heb 2:3,4 (some of the thoughts in Heb 2:3,4 are from Dan Wallace):

Subject: a simple adverb

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 03:28:55


James 2:24

“You see that a person is justified by works, and not by faith alone.”

It was not just this verse that got Martin Luther upset. Basically, he didn’t like the whole epistle of James (the half brother of our Lord). In his 1522 German translation of the New Testament, Luther called the epistle of James an “epistola straminea.” I don’t know an ounce of German, but I do know how most translate this expression: an “epistle of straw.” (I guess this means that some liberal wolf could easily blow this verse over )

To Luther, this verse (and the epistle itself) had to go. It had no place in the Bible. Now Romans was the greatest of books according to Luther, and as far as he was concerned, the apostle Paul took precedence over this imposter, James.

Well, James is no imposter. And I chose this verse to give us a glimpse into the theological point that James was making in this section, and may I add... brilliantly.

I’d like to draw our attention to the very last word in the verse above: ALONE. For those who remember their English grammar, “alone” can be either an adjective or an adverb. Rather than fuss over the English translation, let’s go behind the scenes to the source, namely, the Greek.

The last two words that appear here in the Greek New Testament of this verse look like this: PISTEWS MONON. My point in transliterating these words is simply to comment on the endings of them. Note that their endings are different. The first word, PISTEWS, is the word for “faith.” This word ends with -EWS. The second word, MONON, is “alone, only.” This word ends with -ON.

What this means is that MONON (translated into English as “only” or “alone”) does not modify the noun, “faith.” And to really clear things up a bit, let me add that MONON is an adverb here. And like most adverbs, they “add to a verb” (hence, add-verb) additional meaning. Or, as we learn in grammar, adverbs modify verbs, adjectives, and adverbs.

Unfortunately, there is no verb in the final phrase of this verse. But that is not at all uncommon in Greek. All one has to do is supply one. And not just anyone; the context will always supply it. And the verb we need to supply is right there in the same sentence, “is justified.” Now, watch what happens when we clear up this English translation to reflect the Greek... with precision:

“You see that a person is justified/vindicated by works, and not only justified by faith.”

 

[rebuilder 454]

The preponderance of evidence is that Mark 16:9 to 20 was not found in the original manuscripts. Most translations put this text in small letters and brackets around the verses. Whatever you want to argue/discuss about signs/miracles/languages, you certainly do not want to base any argument using the text of vss 9 to 20.

I will repost a treatment of Heb 2:3,4 (some of the thoughts in Heb 2:3,4 are from Dan Wallace):

Subject: a simple adverb

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 03:28:55


James 2:24

“You see that a person is justified by works, and not by faith alone.”

It was not just this verse that got Martin Luther upset. Basically, he didn’t like the whole epistle of James (the half brother of our Lord). In his 1522 German translation of the New Testament, Luther called the epistle of James an “epistola straminea.” I don’t know an ounce of German, but I do know how most translate this expression: an “epistle of straw.” (I guess this means that some liberal wolf could easily blow this verse over )

To Luther, this verse (and the epistle itself) had to go. It had no place in the Bible. Now Romans was the greatest of books according to Luther, and as far as he was concerned, the apostle Paul took precedence over this imposter, James.

Well, James is no imposter. And I chose this verse to give us a glimpse into the theological point that James was making in this section, and may I add... brilliantly.

I’d like to draw our attention to the very last word in the verse above: ALONE. For those who remember their English grammar, “alone” can be either an adjective or an adverb. Rather than fuss over the English translation, let’s go behind the scenes to the source, namely, the Greek.

The last two words that appear here in the Greek New Testament of this verse look like this: PISTEWS MONON. My point in transliterating these words is simply to comment on the endings of them. Note that their endings are different. The first word, PISTEWS, is the word for “faith.” This word ends with -EWS. The second word, MONON, is “alone, only.” This word ends with -ON.

What this means is that MONON (translated into English as “only” or “alone”) does not modify the noun, “faith.” And to really clear things up a bit, let me add that MONON is an adverb here. And like most adverbs, they “add to a verb” (hence, add-verb) additional meaning. Or, as we learn in grammar, adverbs modify verbs, adjectives, and adverbs.

Unfortunately, there is no verb in the final phrase of this verse. But that is not at all uncommon in Greek. All one has to do is supply one. And not just anyone; the context will always supply it. And the verb we need to supply is right there in the same sentence, “is justified.” Now, watch what happens when we clear up this English translation to reflect the Greek... with precision:

“You see that a person is justified/vindicated by works, and not only justified by faith.”

From,
watchtower online.org

According to Mark​

16 So when the Sabbath+ was over, Mary Magʹda·lene, Mary+ the mother of James, and Sa·loʹme bought spices in order to come and apply them to his body.+ 2 And very early on the first day of the week when the sun had risen, they came to the tomb.*+ 3 They were saying to one another: “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb for us?” 4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, although it was very large.+ 5 When they entered into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a white robe, and they were stunned. 6 He said to them: “Do not be stunned.+ You are looking for Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ who was executed on the stake. He was raised up.+ He is not here. Look, here is the place where they laid him.+ 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galʹi·lee.+ You will see him there, just as he told you.’”+ 8 So when they came out, they fled from the tomb, trembling and overwhelmed with emotion. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were in fear

According to the cult watchtower, they, OMIT the rest of Mark.
they Stop as you do at verse 8.
(as if the rest of the chapter is made up.)
So, no, not even close to truth as we do have the received text.
Your Alexandrian corrupt text is just that...corrupt.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The preponderance of evidence is that Mark 16:9 to 20 was not found in the original manuscripts. Most translations put this text in small letters and brackets around the verses. Whatever you want to argue/discuss about signs/miracles/languages, you certainly do not want to base any argument using the text of vss 9 to 20.

I will repost a treatment of Heb 2:3,4 (some of the thoughts in Heb 2:3,4 are from Dan Wallace):

Subject: a simple adverb

Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 03:28:55


James 2:24

“You see that a person is justified by works, and not by faith alone.”

It was not just this verse that got Martin Luther upset. Basically, he didn’t like the whole epistle of James (the half brother of our Lord). In his 1522 German translation of the New Testament, Luther called the epistle of James an “epistola straminea.” I don’t know an ounce of German, but I do know how most translate this expression: an “epistle of straw.” (I guess this means that some liberal wolf could easily blow this verse over )

To Luther, this verse (and the epistle itself) had to go. It had no place in the Bible. Now Romans was the greatest of books according to Luther, and as far as he was concerned, the apostle Paul took precedence over this imposter, James.

Well, James is no imposter. And I chose this verse to give us a glimpse into the theological point that James was making in this section, and may I add... brilliantly.

I’d like to draw our attention to the very last word in the verse above: ALONE. For those who remember their English grammar, “alone” can be either an adjective or an adverb. Rather than fuss over the English translation, let’s go behind the scenes to the source, namely, the Greek.

The last two words that appear here in the Greek New Testament of this verse look like this: PISTEWS MONON. My point in transliterating these words is simply to comment on the endings of them. Note that their endings are different. The first word, PISTEWS, is the word for “faith.” This word ends with -EWS. The second word, MONON, is “alone, only.” This word ends with -ON.

What this means is that MONON (translated into English as “only” or “alone”) does not modify the noun, “faith.” And to really clear things up a bit, let me add that MONON is an adverb here. And like most adverbs, they “add to a verb” (hence, add-verb) additional meaning. Or, as we learn in grammar, adverbs modify verbs, adjectives, and adverbs.

Unfortunately, there is no verb in the final phrase of this verse. But that is not at all uncommon in Greek. All one has to do is supply one. And not just anyone; the context will always supply it. And the verb we need to supply is right there in the same sentence, “is justified.” Now, watch what happens when we clear up this English translation to reflect the Greek... with precision:

“You see that a person is justified/vindicated by works, and not only justified by faith.”

from google search;
"Yes, Daniel B. Wallace is a cessationist, meaning he believes that the "sign gifts" of the Holy Spirit, such as prophecy, healing, and speaking in tongues, ceased with the apostles. He is considered a classical or "hard" cessationist, who believes that while these specific gifts stopped, God may still perform miracles today that do not add to scripture"

YEP...no wonder he leans toward the corrupt text

 

[Doug]

The preponderance of evidence is that Mark 16:9 to 20 was not found in the original manuscripts. Most translations put this text in small letters and brackets around the verses. Whatever you want to argue/discuss about signs/miracles/languages, you certainly do not want to base any argument using the text of vss 9 to 20.

First of all there are no original manuscripts and more scripture is altered than this passage

 

[KUWN]

First of all there are no original manuscripts and more scripture is altered than this passage

What we do have is the original wording of the NT manuscripts. No two manuscripts agree completely. In fact, we have more than 100% of the manuscripts. Dan Wallace told me that he sees it that we actually have 103% and what needs to be done is to remove the extra 3%.

As far as altered texts, there are over 450,000 variants in all the manuscripts. With these variants we are able to reconstruct the NT. There are contradictions in the Bible, not many, but a few. The Bible is not inspired due to the mistakes that are in it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

What we do have is the original wording of the NT manuscripts. No two manuscripts agree completely. In fact, we have more than 100% of the manuscripts. Dan Wallace told me that he sees it that we actually have 103% and what needs to be done is to remove the extra 3%.

As far as altered texts, there are over 450,000 variants in all the manuscripts. With these variants we are able to reconstruct the NT. There are contradictions in the Bible, not many, but a few. The Bible is not inspired due to the mistakes that are in it.

....sad that they lean towards cessationist editing.
I wonder what that fate is for tampering with the bible.

Dan Wallace....a pawn of hell.

That modification has left you with doubting the word of God.
The spirit operating in the modern translations has that goal....to bring doubt into God's word.

It is a sin against God's power. The end result is a Weak God thst is unable to put his true word into your hand.
So now, you are left with unsettled confusion about the power of God, and when you lay hands on the sick, You have no basis of faith.

Your faith is under attack and you celebrate it.

 

[Rockerduck]

What we do have is the original wording of the NT manuscripts. No two manuscripts agree completely. In fact, we have more than 100% of the manuscripts. Dan Wallace told me that he sees it that we actually have 103% and what needs to be done is to remove the extra 3%.

As far as altered texts, there are over 450,000 variants in all the manuscripts. With these variants we are able to reconstruct the NT. There are contradictions in the Bible, not many, but a few. The Bible is not inspired due to the mistakes that are in it.

All the variants of the majority text equal more accuracy, meaning the more you have, the percentages and up and add to the accuracy in scriptures, add that to the writings of the 4th century and you have an accurate bible.. Considering the contradictions, I've found more in all the modern translations than the KJV and have not found any in the KJV. If you research the cultural aspect and the audience written to, you see the perceived contradictions, but there aren't.

 

[rebuilder 454]

First of all there are no original manuscripts and more scripture is altered than this passage

Mark 16 :9 >
In the Vaticanus text has room on the page for the omitted verses.
Just obviously edited them out.

Uh huh.