Arguing

[Mr E]

Great post..I too have been thinking about opinions and I, like you have become entangled in “ opinions “..I think if we can see outside of our opinions, that they aren’t always right, ..an opinion isn’t right though is it Victory in Jesus, it’s just our opinion....? Xx

It’s when the members start stating that their opinion is right, as I’ve also been guilty of doing,....what they do is, “ Force you to agree with their opinion “, therefore if you don’t, they start throwing insults...been there done that.

They start slating your character, then get others involved, it’s like children in the playground...

Tomorrow I am meeting a friend for coffee, she’s very keen on voicing her opinion of me.....and seems to love me agreeing with her opinion, some of her opinions of me is very negative ....it’s going to be an interesting coffee meet tomorrow......I have a few opinions of her, that I will be throwing her way,hehe, it will be interesting to see if she reacts or acts in a mature way....xx

I have learnt an awful lot about opinions this past week, including my own....all they are , are opinions...no more valid or invalid than anyone else’s.

Here's an uncomfortable newsflash-- but entirely appropriate for a "Christian" discussion board....

Opinion and Belief --walk hand in hand.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Interesting point, how can it be used as a tool? xx ( the ignore button)

When someone does not want to discuss something and are not able to even listen to the other person. so they just ignore them; which is an insult.

I think the Like button can also be used as a tool, don’t you?

Oh of course. so can the thumbs down button

I have been guilty of using the like button as a tool...because I had a personal vendetta against someone , ...looking back...how terribly childish and immature....I feel very embarrassed to admit to it, but, it is the truth!...and it’s good to get it off your chest, so to speak.xx

I am sure we have all done this.. I have done this myself

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It depends on what you value more, truth or not giving offense?

Saying I value loving them is besides the point. If only dictators throughout history used the approach that if you do not submit to my dictates, I'll be offended ... so many lives could have been saved.

I chose to call them by their name, and not to call them he or she..there are always other options

 

[Ritajanice]

When someone does not want to discuss something and are not able to even listen to the other person. so they just ignore them; which is an insult.

Ok, thank you for that opinion.xx

Oh of course. so can the thumbs down button

I am sure we have all done this.. I have done this myself

Amen! xx

 

[Wrangler]

I chose to call them by their name, and not to call them he or she..there are always other options

Calling them by their name was not an option you provided - and neither are the dictators.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Calling them by their name was not an option you provided - and neither are the dictators.

so you would would call them by their real pronoun, knowing that in you doing that, you could never lead them to Christ?

 

[Wrangler]

so you would would call them by their real pronoun, knowing that in you doing that, you could never lead them to Christ?

You don't KNOW what will lead people to Christ. However, I reject the claim that one can be untruthful as a path to find the one who is truth.

The whole set up is foolish! It makes no sense to placate the mentally ill. What does make sense is to speak the truth in love and grace. There is no argument.

"I know you want to be called what you are not. You need to know I am going to call you what you are. I know that might upset you but you do want our relationship to be based on truth, don't you? I know I do."​

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Here's an uncomfortable newsflash-- but entirely appropriate for a "Christian" discussion board....

Opinion and Belief --walk hand in hand.

Not to get off topic but my husband and I were talking about how was Jesus the express image of an invisible (or unseen) God. To me and my husband as we talked about it…the express image that Jesus was of the Father was love, mercy, Grace, forgiveness, long-suffering, Faith, endurance…all the attributes of the Spirit of God. (Not to be blunt but I think having nothing to do with manly parts, but that is only my opinion.) But then how we build an image after our own image based off our strong opinions and beliefs which sometimes is a false expression of God? Does that make sense? How then do we keep from creating a God in our own image and not in the expressed image of the Father?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It depends on what you value more, truth or not giving offense?

That depends on if the “truth” we say is of such value destroys or kills. Everyone will tell you they are trying to save you. Telling you “I’m just telling you the truth that you need to hear.” When sometimes the truth they are trying to force upon you, doesn’t seem like life but like death. Then you are at least left questioning the motive. Asking do they even understand their own motive towards you???

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You don't KNOW what will lead people to Christ. However, I reject the claim that one can be untruthful as a path to find the one who is truth.

The whole set up is foolish! It makes no sense to placate the mentally ill. What does make sense is to speak the truth in love and grace. There is no argument.

"I know you want to be called what you are not. You need to know I am going to call you what you are. I know that might upset you but you do want our relationship to be based on truth, don't you? I know I do."​

Judge not lest ye be judged

I guarantee you call her by her real pronoun you have lost all ability to give her the gospel. Whearas as I showed you can call her by her name and not offend her.

But act like most self righteous Christian’s do.

 

[Wrangler]

That depends on if the “truth” we say is of such value destroys or kills.

All truth destroys. It destroys lies. It destroys being enslaved to a lie. And it destroys death from such enslavement. Said more simply, truth sets you free and allows you to live freely.

 

[BlessedPeace]

When someone does not want to discuss something and are not able to even listen to the other person. so they just ignore them; which is an insult.

Oh of course. so can the thumbs down button

I am sure we have all done this.. I have done this myself

Except there is no thumbs down option attached to the "Like" button.

 

[Grailhunter]

Snariously..... If "the team" is the body of Christ..... the church, or the community of believers..... does this team require everyone to sing from a single song-sheet?

Or should it be something closer to what Paul wrote to the Corinthians?

For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. And if they were all one member, where were the body? But now are they many members, yet but one body. And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

This sounds like the time Yeshua God the Son was talking to Yahweh God the Father....About the oneness concept...
John 17:19-24 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Because Yeshua says “just as” this is an exactness, a duplication of a condition that we can achieve, and He states that this condition of “oneness” can apply to us, but it has nothing to do with absorption or singularity, but rather a condition of spiritual union and solidarity between God and us. The next verse further defines this by describing a unity with Christ that would cause the same condition with us as it did with them, a condition of perfection.

Again, not talking to Himself, in John 17:23 “I in them, and Thou in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, that the world may know that Thou didst send Me, and didst love them, even as Thou didst love Me.” In this context millions of people could be made one...one being a abstract concept of one, but a more literal meaning of unity, solidarity, and perfection and even a “body” that is considered one....the body of Christ or the body of the Church being one. And then, the next verse is probably one of the best verses to put this oneness concept into perspective. The leading verses are speaking of the works of the Holy Spirit and then ends with this explanation. 1st Corinthians 12:11-13 “But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.”

 

[Mr E]

Not to get off topic but my husband and I were talking about how was Jesus the express image of an invisible (or unseen) God. To me and my husband as we talked about it…the express image that Jesus was of the Father was love, mercy, Grace, forgiveness, long-suffering, Faith, endurance…all the attributes of the Spirit of God. (Not to be blunt but I think having nothing to do with manly parts, but that is only my opinion.) But then how we build an image after our own image based off our strong opinions and beliefs which sometimes is a false expression of God? Does that make sense? How then do we keep from creating a God in our own image and not in the expressed image of the Father?

Definitely off topic- but I like it!

 

[WalterandDebbie]

What’s it about?

I would like some insight from you guys?..xx

Hi, Again, Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Love, Walter

 

[BlessedPeace]

Judge not lest ye be judged

I guarantee you call her by her real pronoun you have lost all ability to give her the gospel. Whearas as I showed you can call her by her name and not offend her.

But act like most self righteous Christian’s do.

We are not only to judge but are told to use righteous understanding,wisdom,when doing so.

For example,you posted to reiterate,judge not that ye be judged.

Then you judged the situation Wrangler had previously mentioned.

It's curious that we will see threads started to address argument in a forum where that very matter keeps this forum active.

We see zombie threads revived,as example, and that contain argumentative posts just to jumpstart that atmosphere.

As someone said already, the disciples of Jesus argued among themselves. Jesus argued with them and the Pharisees and Sadducees.

I don't believe it beneficial to assail our personalities in an effort to imply those make us somehow lacking as Christians by example.

Especially when the example of Jesus and the disciples are what is being criticized alongside ourselves.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Definitely off topic- but I like it!

Is it really though. You may not remember but a while back on another thread you mentioned something about “strong drink”. What is giving of “strong drink”? Could it be a mixture of strong opinions and strong beliefs that delude and cause staggering confusion? I mean to become so drunken on a falsehood or a false image that we grope to hold onto to, stammering and forcing others to drink so they can become drunken with us? makes me wonder what it is to drink of something strong and intoxicating. I do think I’ve had some strong drink before and it did make me drunk.

 

[Ritajanice]

Hi, Again, Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Love, Walter

Thank you again Walter..

I look upon the tongue a bit differently....I can do nothing in my own strength, I put my faith and trust in God, that in his strength, my tongue gets better....Praise God imo it has, ..I’m not saying he does it all, my will/ heart must imo want it as well....it must be true from my heart that I want to stop verbally abusing people, hope that makes sense.xx

I don’t think it will ever be fully tamed on earth...what do you think?..xx

 

[Ritajanice]

Is it really though. You may not remember but a while back on another thread you mentioned something about “strong drink”. What is giving of “strong drink”? Could it be a mixture of strong opinions and strong beliefs that delude and cause staggering confusion? I mean to become so drunken on a falsehood or a false image that we grope to hold onto to, stammering and forcing others to drink so they can become drunken with us? makes me wonder what it is to drink of something strong and intoxicating. I do think I’ve had some strong drink before and it did make me drunk.

Do you know, I’ve had to understand and learn what an opinion was.

I was never allowed to voice growing up, so had and did agree with others peoples opinions....and their opinions of me I agreed with.

Praise God when he came along, it all started to change, very ,very slowly, he has shown me what an opinion is and that my opinion is no more valid or invalid than anyone else’s...

I think my emotions were suppressed for many years, then like a pressure cooker, it all came out ...what a long journey it’s been, I do believe I’m in a much better place now mentally,xx

I know I was mentally and emotionally disturbed for many years...I’ve had years of that cognitive therapy I believe it’s called..

 

[Mr E]

Is it really though. You may not remember but a while back on another thread you mentioned something about “strong drink”. What is giving of “strong drink”? Could it be a mixture of strong opinions and strong beliefs that delude and cause staggering confusion? I mean to become so drunken on a falsehood or a false image that we grope to hold onto to, stammering and forcing others to drink so they can become drunken with us? makes me wonder what it is to drink of something strong and intoxicating. I do think I’ve had some strong drink before and it did make me drunk.

Great analogy! There's a reason they used to call 'strong drinks' -- spirits. Nothing loosens tongues quite like it.