Hey Rach :) ... Question then. Why are we told to seek, we told to repent, we told to open the door when he knocks?
Jesus tells us that He came to seek and save the lost (Luke 19:10), so the question isn't really "do we come to God by seeking Him out?", but "If we know Jesus seeks us out, what part does our 'seeking' have in the grand scheme of things?" I have a few thoughts on that, but I think what I really need to cover here, is election. That's your point, I think...does God reach down and choose us, or do we seek Him out and find Him.
The Bible seems to quite clearly cover Predestination.
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:48 ESV)
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. (Romans 8:28-30 ESV)
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” (Romans 9:11-13 ESV)
It is not anything that we do or do not do...election is all about God, His sovereignty, His providence and His purposes. Paul talks explicitly about God's choice of believers before the foundation of the world:
even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. (Ephesians 1:4-6 ESV)
We see time and again, it's not about us, it's about God, His glory, His grace, His choice. There are so many more passages that tell us that He 'chose us', that we are 'destined' and 'appointed', and always, it's "His purpose".
How does the NT present the teaching of Election? So many people see it as taking away of free will, of unfairness, of a case of "duck, duck, damn". How does scripture present it to us?
As comfort...in Romans 8:28 Paul gives God's work of predestination as a reason why we can be assured of this truth:
"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."
Paul's point is to say that God has
always acted for the good of those whom He called to Himself.
Election is shown as a reason to Praise God. "
So that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:12 ESV)
We give thanks to God always for all... For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, (1 Thessalonians 1:2,4 ESV)
And finally it is taught as an encouragement to Evangelism. Paul says:
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. (2 Timothy 2:10 ESV)
God has chosen us to present the gospel. He uses us as a tool to get His message out. Does He need us to preach it in order for it to change people? No...as you say, Paul is an excellent example of where God took a direct approach. But in the same way we are told to 'seek', we are also told to 'go preach'. God wants us involved in both our sanctification and the salvation of the other elect. As we don't know who God has 'predestined' we must proceed like every single person we meet is a brother or sister!
I don't believe in total depravation, it is a doctrine of the reformation. But I don't see it taught anywhere in the New Testament. Yes, we have all fallen short of God's ways, and yes, we come empty handed. But we do not lose the ability to come. If indeed man is totally depraved, how come some people come to Jesus, and he says 'your faith has rescued you'? I do believe all we have and all good things come from God, but God gives all the ability to choose, thus he doesn't leave man depraved, and man is the one who chooses to do what is right or not, and to follow him or not. Thus, we will have something to be blamed for on judgment day if we fall short.
Our natures lack (before grace) any Spiritual good. It's not just that some parts of us are sinful and others are pure. Rather, every part of our being is affected by sin - our intellects, our emotions and desires, our hearts (the centre of our desires and decision making processes), our goals and motives and even our physical bodies. Scripture is not denying that unbelievers can do good in human society in some senses. But it is denying that they can do any spiritual good or be good in terms of a relationship with God.
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. (Romans 7:18 ESV)
To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled. (Titus 1:15 ESV)
The heart is deceitful above all things,
and desperately sick;
who can understand it? (Jeremiah 17:9 ESV)
Apart from the work of Christ in our lives, we are like all other unbelievers who are:
...
darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. (Ephesians 4:18 ESV)
Election is not fatalistic...it does not leave us with no choices or decisions to make. True fatalism, would mean that our humanity is destroyed because our choices really mean nothing, and the motivation for moral accountability is removed. This is just not shown in the NT teaching of election. Not only do we make willing choices as real persons, but these choices are also real choices because they do affect the lives and destinies of others. Our personal decisions to believe or not in Christ have eternal consequences in our lives, and scripture is quite willing to talk about our decision to believe or not believe as the factor that decides our eternal destiny. When Paul was told that God had many elect people in Corinth, he stayed a long time and preached, in order that those elect people might be saved! Paul is quite clear about the fact that unless people preach the gospel others will not be saved:
How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?...
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
(Romans 10:17 ESV)
God calls for us to be a part of life with Him, and a part of bringing Him into the lives of others. That is His choice, for His purposes, for His glory....that's what everything keeps coming back to.
I believe both these doctrines have a part of the truth, but are wrong (Yes, I voted other). We are exhorted to seek, we must run after God, we must move forward, we must draw near to him that he might draw near to us. But God does come after men, like Saul, who became Paul. He was not seeking Jesus, that's for sure! ;)
I disagree that we must draw near to Him before He can draw near to us...that implies restriction on God's part. There is no restriction, at all. If there was, then Jesus, whom Paul hated with a zealous passion, would not have given him such a wake up call!
I voted for Calvinism because quite frankly, the doctrines that fall under that banner, well, they're just what I see the Bible as teaching us. We cannot dismiss some parts of scripture (the ones that clearly tell us that God predestines and elects His own) because we see other parts of scripture (seek God, open to God, our faith has saved us) as contradicting that. We must interpret scripture by other scripture, and we must also know that scripture...God's word that He had written down for us, does not contradict itself. There is always a way to marry all scripture in a way that ends up pointing all glory, honour and power back at God. I voted for the doctrine of election and depravity, because I see that that's what points those things back at God.
Ultimately men will experience both. The doctrines come from men because it is their primary experience. Both are true, if we seek God, we will find him, but he will also come to get us.
In th end, the whole purpose of both is to bring us to God, and to teach us to be faithful in all things, and be conformed to him.
I believe that we, even as saved Christians, are to seek God every day. It's not a matter of salvation or election, it's a matter of, as you say, being conformed to Him. Becoming closer to Him, deepening our relationship and love for Him.
