As a Christian, do you think the world is unable to distinguish between good and evil?

[Chrysostomos]

I have been read, but what you are talking about just the blind leading the blind....

In the opening post of this thread, you raised a great question.

But then you started writing something about Israel, Palestine, believers, and non-believers... and I’m completely lost about what you’re saying or what the question is.

Now I’m even more confused by what you’re writing.

Could you please rephrase your question more clearly?

 

[soberxp]

In the opening post of this thread, you raised a great question.

But then you started writing something about Israel, Palestine, believers, and non-believers... and I’m completely lost about what you’re saying or what the question is.

Now I’m even more confused by what you’re writing.

Could you please rephrase your question more clearly?

This topic is actually quite broad, and it is not limited to the current situation between Palestine and Israel.

I have noticed that people in the secular world can well discern the right from the wrong in the proclamation of the Gospel. If the words do not come from God, they will readily reject them. This is a rather strange thing.

 

[Gottservant]

My take on this, is that when there is revival, nations begin to discern good and evil the way they should - I couldn't find it, but there is a verse that says "the unclean does not make the holy unholy, but the holy makes the unclean clean"; there is an effect through revival, where a nation is made clean, because it allows the Holy Spirit to work in the spirit.

 

[Chrysostomos]

This is a good point, the wicked choose evil very consistently. This consistency proves an ability to discern. It's like a rumor I heard of someone taking the SATs ( a test for those looking to enter University in the USA) and they did so badly on the test that randomly choosing from the multiple choice questions would yield a better result. They supposedly gave him some sort of credit for it because by doing so badly it proved that he understood the questions.

I would normally disagree, because by rejecting God, they reject the truth. And rejecting the truth has resulted in the strong delusion (paraphrasing). They believe 'the lie,' which I believe to be the lie of old, that you can be as God. Subjective morality becomes subjective reality in pursuit of authority over God's design. But when reality doesn't bend to them they prove themselves to be delusional.

"II have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him." John 5:43 NIV

They have never, anywhere, at any time, made a single mistake.

 

[soberxp]

"II have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him." John 5:43 NIV

They have never, anywhere, at any time, made a single mistake.

If I say that I have sought eternal life from my very youth, do you think I am snobbish?

 

[lforrest]

If I say that I have sought eternal life from my very youth, do you think I am snobbish?

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

The desire for eternal life is universal.

 

[Windmill Charge]

I bring up this topic because when most Christians disagree with the world on a certain position of good and evil.

The world is able to distinguish between good and evil only to a certain extent.
As the world rejects Christianity its judgement of what is 'good' or 'evil' is faulty.

You raise the issue of Gaza.
What is happening there is a wrong brought about by an earlier wrong, which was intern cause by a wrong belief.

The Qur'an about Jews:-

• cursed by Allah for worshipping at graves of prophets,
  

  * Narrated 'Urwa:
  Aisha said, "The Prophet in his fatal illness said, 'Allah cursed the Jews and the Christians because they took the graves of their Prophets as places for praying."' Aisha added, "Had it not been for that the grave of the Prophet would have been made prominent but I am afraid it might be taken (as a) place for praying. (Sahih Bukhari 2.414, see also Sahih Bukhari 2.425, Sahih Bukhari 2.472)

• 
  who does not believe in Muhammad nor affirm his belief will be in Hell,
  

  ``Abu Huraira related that Allah's Messenger said: "He who amongst the community of Jews and Christians hears about me, does not affirm his belief in what I have been sent with, and dies in this state (of disbelief), shall be but one of the inmates of Hell-Fire"'' (Muslim).

Islam teaches hatred of the Jews and there can never be peace between two groups when one hates the other.
But any judgement of Gaza that does not involve the history of the Jewish v Arab relationship is not a valid judgement, its just an emotional reaction.

 

[Chrysostomos]

The world is able to distinguish between good and evil only to a certain extent.
As the world rejects Christianity its judgement of what is 'good' or 'evil' is faulty.

You raise the issue of Gaza.
What is happening there is a wrong brought about by an earlier wrong, which was intern cause by a wrong belief.

The Qur'an about Jews:-

• cursed by Allah for worshipping at graves of prophets,
• 
  who does not believe in Muhammad nor affirm his belief will be in Hell,

Islam teaches hatred of the Jews and there can never be peace between two groups when one hates the other.
But any judgement of Gaza that does not involve the history of the Jewish v Arab relationship is not a valid judgement, its just an emotional reaction.

I'd like to clarify something with you. If we apply your exact logic, could we make an analogous statement to yours—something like:

«The Jews teach that Jesus is boiling in hell in excrement, and the Virgin Mary was a whore.»

Let me lay this out in more detail, just as you did with Islam.

In the Babylonian Talmud—"the" central text of Rabbinic Judaism, studied and revered in Orthodox yeshivas to this day—there are explicit passages about a figure widely identified by scholars (both Jewish and Christian) as Jesus of Nazareth:

- Gittin 57a: A sorcerer named Yeshu (Jesus) is summoned from the afterlife by Onkelos. When asked about his punishment, Yeshu replies that he is being punished "with boiling hot excrement" for mocking the words of the Sages. The text contrasts this with the lesser punishments of gentile idol-worshippers, implying Jewish sinners like Yeshu suffer more severely.

- Shabbat 104b: Jesus is called "ben Stada" (son of Stada), but the rabbis clarify: his mother was Miriam the hairdresser (a play on *megaddela*, which also means "braider of hair" but is used here as a euphemism for infidelity). They explain: "The husband was Stada, the paramour was Pandera." Pandera is understood as a Roman soldier—thus Jesus is the product of adultery.

- Sanhedrin 106a: A proverb is quoted: "She who was descended from princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." This is a direct insult to Mary—claiming a woman of Davidic lineage (a "princess") committed adultery with a common laborer (Joseph the carpenter).

These are not obscure footnotes. They appear in the standard Vilna edition of the Talmud, taught in religious schools, and defended by some Orthodox scholars as legitimate counter-narrative to Christian claims.

So, using your framework:
Judaism teaches hatred of Christians.
Jesus is a false prophet, a sorcerer, and a bastard. His mother is a whore. He is eternally damned in the most degrading way imaginable.
Therefore, peace between the two groups can never exist when one hates the other.

Now, apply your final point:
Any judgment about the Holocaust that ignores the history of Jewish-German relations is not valid—it’s just an emotional reaction.

Or do you believe "this" is different?

I’m genuinely curious where the line is drawn.

 

[Windmill Charge]

I'd like to clarify something with you. If we apply your exact logic, could we make an analogous statement to yours—something like:

«The Jews teach that Jesus is boiling in hell in excrement, and the Virgin Mary was a whore.»

Let me lay this out in more detail, just as you did with Islam.

In the Babylonian Talmud—"the" central text of Rabbinic Judaism, studied and revered in Orthodox yeshivas to this day—there are explicit passages about a figure widely identified by scholars (both Jewish and Christian) as Jesus of Nazareth:

- Gittin 57a: A sorcerer named Yeshu (Jesus) is summoned from the afterlife by Onkelos. When asked about his punishment, Yeshu replies that he is being punished "with boiling hot excrement" for mocking the words of the Sages. The text contrasts this with the lesser punishments of gentile idol-worshippers, implying Jewish sinners like Yeshu suffer more severely.

- Shabbat 104b: Jesus is called "ben Stada" (son of Stada), but the rabbis clarify: his mother was Miriam the hairdresser (a play on *megaddela*, which also means "braider of hair" but is used here as a euphemism for infidelity). They explain: "The husband was Stada, the paramour was Pandera." Pandera is understood as a Roman soldier—thus Jesus is the product of adultery.

- Sanhedrin 106a: A proverb is quoted: "She who was descended from princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." This is a direct insult to Mary—claiming a woman of Davidic lineage (a "princess") committed adultery with a common laborer (Joseph the carpenter).

These are not obscure footnotes. They appear in the standard Vilna edition of the Talmud, taught in religious schools, and defended by some Orthodox scholars as legitimate counter-narrative to Christian claims.

So, using your framework:
Judaism teaches hatred of Christians.
Jesus is a false prophet, a sorcerer, and a bastard. His mother is a whore. He is eternally damned in the most degrading way imaginable.
Therefore, peace between the two groups can never exist when one hates the other.

Now, apply your final point:
Any judgment about the Holocaust that ignores the history of Jewish-German relations is not valid—it’s just an emotional reaction.

Or do you believe "this" is different?

I’m genuinely curious where the line is drawn.

The line is drawn in two ways.
1 Jews do not practice hatred of Christians.
2 Islam practises its hatred of Jews.

 

[Chrysostomos]

The line is drawn in two ways.
1 Jews do not practice hatred of Christians.
2 Islam practises its hatred of Jews.

You cited Quranic verses and hadiths to frame what's happening in Gaza as rooted in Islamic hatred of Jews—implying it justifies or explains the conflict.

In turn, I cited passages from the Babylonian Talmud showing that Jews hold Christianity and its central figures in contempt: Jesus is a false prophet, a sorcerer, and a bastard; his mother is a whore.

Now you claim: "Jews do not practice hatred of Christians."

Really? The Talmudic passages I quoted aren't dusty relics; they're printed in every standard edition (Vilna, ArtScroll, Steinsaltz) and studied in Orthodox yeshivas worldwide. When a 21st-century rabbi teaches Gittin 57a and tells students that Yeshu (Jesus) is boiling in excrement for mocking the Sages, that's not "ancient history"—that's active transmission of contempt.

So which is it?

Using your exact framework, wouldn't it be fair to say the same about Jews that you say about Muslims?
Judaism teaches hatred of Christians.
Therefore, peace between the two groups can never exist when one hates the other.

Now, apply your final point about Gaza:
Any judgment about the Holocaust that ignores the history of Jewish-German relations is not valid—it's just an emotional reaction.

Why not?

 

[Windmill Charge]

You cited Quranic verses and hadiths to frame what's happening in Gaza as rooted in Islamic hatred of Jews—implying it justifies or explains the conflict.

In turn, I cited passages from the Babylonian Talmud showing that Jews hold Christianity and its central figures in contempt: Jesus is a false prophet, a sorcerer, and a bastard; his mother is a whore.

Now you claim: "Jews do not practice hatred of Christians."

Really? The Talmudic passages I quoted aren't dusty relics; they're printed in every standard edition (Vilna, ArtScroll, Steinsaltz) and studied in Orthodox yeshivas worldwide. When a 21st-century rabbi teaches Gittin 57a and tells students that Yeshu (Jesus) is boiling in excrement for mocking the Sages, that's not "ancient history"—that's active transmission of contempt.

So which is it?

Using your exact framework, wouldn't it be fair to say the same about Jews that you say about Muslims?
Judaism teaches hatred of Christians.
Therefore, peace between the two groups can never exist when one hates the other.

Now, apply your final point about Gaza:
Any judgment about the Holocaust that ignores the history of Jewish-German relations is not valid—it's just an emotional reaction.

Why not?

The difference is that Islam is a religion of war, it's intent is to conquer the whole world.
Judaism despises Christianity but does not preach violence against Christianity.

 

[Chrysostomos]

The difference is that Islam is a religion of war, it's intent is to conquer the whole world.
Judaism despises Christianity but does not preach violence against Christianity.

That’s a false dichotomy. There’s no real difference in their capacity for hostility—only in how it’s expressed.

Islam recognizes Jesus as a prophet and honors Mary with respect, as seen in the Quran (Surah 19).

Judaism, by contrast, has historical texts like the Talmud (e.g., Sanhedrin 43a, Gittin 57a) that call Jesus a false prophet, a sorcerer, and a bastard, label Mary a whore, and depict Jesus suffering eternal, degrading punishment. If anything, this shows a deeper theological contempt for Christianity in certain Jewish traditions than in Islam.

“The Jew has always been a people without roots, a parasite in the body of other nations. In Russia, we see the final result of his rule: the destruction of the Christian order, the murder of millions, and terror led by the Bolsheviks, who are nothing but tools of Jewish world domination.” (Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Ch. 11)

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1988407471040495959

Take the USSR: under so-called “Jewish management,” it saw the largest genocide of Christians in history, with peoples oppressed by those you call Jews.

In Mein Kampf, Hitler laid it out clear as day. He pointed to Russia as his nightmare for Germany, claiming Jews were the masterminds behind the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917, using communism to wreck traditional societies, religion, and especially Christianity. He called the Bolsheviks—whom he tied to Jews—responsible for killing millions, including Christians, aristocrats, and peasants, in what he labeled a “genocide” against “normal” society.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1980229146862322150

 

[Boaz1982]

I bring up this topic because when most Christians disagree with the world on a certain position of good and evil.

Yes, right and wrong these days seem to be increasingly twisted and confused. Sadly.