What does everybody think about it? Is it good? Is it evil? I just found out tonight that you can use it to also predict your death as well as it gives you personality traits about yourself and I found that part kind of creepy myself. :/
Astrology
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Although the word Magi means sorcerer or witch and they used astrology to track Christ, and the festivals and holydays of the Israelites were in line with the movement and phases of the moon, Christianity has come to think of astrology as akin to occultism. Now the history of this is complicated and lengthy and most would not appreciate it but it is what it is.
It is kind of like numerology, in the Bible, numbers mean things. And this is something that the Jews have known for centuries and there are modern researchers that agree and suggest that there is an ELS code in the Old Testament, called the Bible code. And the Jews have known about the Atbash cipher for centuries.
All of this you can look up.
It is kind of like numerology, in the Bible, numbers mean things. And this is something that the Jews have known for centuries and there are modern researchers that agree and suggest that there is an ELS code in the Old Testament, called the Bible code. And the Jews have known about the Atbash cipher for centuries.
All of this you can look up.
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I don't let people tell me who I am, I find it controlling and rude. So I don't follow astrology. I make myself with Gods help into the person I am and I ignore peoples judgements, but they do hurt me from time to time.
So I tell you in astrology what your day will be like or what type of person you are? I don't follow that religion. God will turn me into a new person that has all the qualities of God (Galatians 5:22-25). And that is who I will become.
In studying time machines I find that we become predictable, similar to astrology, as if someone can predict who you are or how your day will go. But Gods holy spirit changes the timeline and who the person is. So that if I were watching someone using a time machine and observing their next day, I might see a lie that never will happen if God intervenes in that persons life.
I hope that makes sense. Sure it's fun to read a fortune cookie and get a laugh. But like astrology, it's just for a laugh and is not the truth. Cheers and Love.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
And the other point to this is that although the Jews had hoped a prayed for the Messiah for over 700 years...they had no clue.
And their response, was to try to kill Him.
The Magi gave Christ a treasure and were the first to worship Him.
Of course the obvious question is; Why were witches interested in Christ?
Hmm, don't know what happened to the rest of the post!!!, or why it posted like that when I hit 'reply' as usual 
Meh, whatever,
Seers, horoscopes, fortune tellers...I would stay far away from. They are not biblical.
Meh, whatever,
Seers, horoscopes, fortune tellers...I would stay far away from. They are not biblical.
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
I'm a former astrologist.
Yeah I wouldn't mess with any of that stuff. I'm only going to give a little bit of information to explain why it's false.
When you're reading a chart, you are going looking into an area called the houses and the houses are numbered, and there's two houses that are related to death. There's going to be a description for that house explaining what those houses do. Okay? These are highly generalized and wide spread ideas made to seem very "specific." This is how Satan works. It's all about deception. All of it is about deceit, illusion games, and control/money.
The position of the stars has nothing to do with how God created you or his plans for you, but if they hand themselves over and put their faith in the teachings of demons, isn't obvious they'll be controlled?
I had a very bad experience with reading someone's chart and they asked one of those bad questions. Long story short, I didn't look at the chart very long. I knew-knew. The prediction was accurate but I think it was only accurate because they believed in it so much and caused it to happen. That's something I have to live with forever and not know how or why it happened. There will never be any closure there.
People who get involved in this stuff let it define themselves and their future and they follow it around to make it "more true" because they believed in it. These are dangerous things to mess with and God is not in any of it. By the way, online psychics will straight up Google you and pick things off your FB pages.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Oh Boy, oh boy!! Someone to discuss this subject with intelligently!
Fluffy, I never got into researching people's charts or rising signs; never put faith in anything other than Sun sign characteristics. Nor did I put the LEAST faith in predictive astrology. Total garbage. HOWEVER, I'm a long time student of human nature, and I have seen Sun sign characteristics bear themselves out time and time again in Christians, not just unbelievers. I have known Scorpio pastors who fit the bill so accurately it was scary. I've known Leo-Cancer pastors who were absolutely what their Sun signs suggested they should be. I am as Cancer as Cancer gets, and my personality is entirely in keeping with my calling, so one would be hard pressed convincing me that the personality traits of the various signs have no merit, or that these things somehow "change" when people give their lives to Christ.
What would be your response to that? If it's something you'd feel more comfortable discussing in private, you can PM me.
I think there's a difference between saying that you're a Pisces and creativity is one of your personality traits (which is me in this case) without totally mapping out the stars and stuff. Or reading a fortune cookie as @Devin Wintch said.
If a theory is true it will apply and be true in every instance. You have met people that reflect their sun signs. Have you met people that didn't? That would be my question.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Actually, no. Not when it comes to those I really know.
Taking a brief inventory:
My wife: A Libra, and you'd better believe it, LoL.
Her sister: A Sagittarius without question.
Her friend: A Virgo, and a total workaholic clean freak.
Her husband: Pure Gemini.
A good friend of mine: A Capricorn, and she might as well have been born in a goat suit.
There's more that goes into it than on the surface, however. For one thing it's not a cookie cutter, one-size-fits-all type thing, like from the 23rd of one month to the 23rd of the next every one will be exactly the same. It's more of a cycle, with some characteristics slowly changing from those of the previous sign more towards those of the next, all while bearing many if not most of the characteristics of the sign they're born under. For another, not everyone who studies this stuff is very good (i.e. accurate), and maybe most importantly not everyone is easy to read on the surface. Some people don't even fully realize their true selves until later in life, having it buried somewhat under cultural, social or family pressures. But the real personality will still show parts of itself even then.
And that would explain the emotionalism, LoL.
I'm still not a believer as I'm a lot like my Dad and we're from very different months. But if you believe that's all that matters?
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
It's REALLY easy to pick out these traits in people. I'll answer here because I think it's an important question and people should probably know the answer.
An easily agreeable person might notice ALL of them, a really objectional person will completely deny everything, but there's three signs that would be used to determine a person and believe it or not the sun wouldn't be one you would use to describe a person outright. (It's just the easiest to find.) So 90% of the accuracy depends not on the chart, but on how open the person is to the idea. Astrologists know this and they don't like objective people.
Astrologers are good unintentional liars, in that if we couldn't find out why one trait didn't exist somewhere we would look a different place. Even the little clips in the newspapers are sometimes randomized but made easy to agree with. They usually believe their own lies.
So think of it this way: Astrology is like looking a times table chart and you're not looking for the answer to the equation, but you're just looking for the equation that gives that answer.
In other words, how many times can you find 40 in a 12 x 12 times table? (The answer is 4.) The astrologist will go out of their way to find that quality and figure out where exactly that specific quality is and then they'll come up with seemingly good reasons they aren't there, like "Oh there's a clash here" or "Your moon sign is the reason you're a patient person." They'll figure out any reason they can to validate their claims.
The biggest problem with astrology, aside from it being a sin that was so bad it was punishable by death and I should have been stoned 3,342,523 times by now, is people will use it to validate their sins and then get caught up in them. "I match up with this person much better than I do my wife/husband... My husbands Pluto doesn't fall into my 5th house" or "I'm lustful because I'm a Scorpio" or "I'm a Gemini so I have a problem with lying."
We have the spirit and we don't need that. It's all lies anyway.
Jeremiah 10:2-5 explains it best:
This is what the Lord says:
“Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the heavens,
though the nations are terrified by them.
For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. (See how it's crafted for deception?)
They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.”
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
See, this is very much the type of situation where family, particularly parental influence can color things a bit. Most sons naturally take after their fathers and want to be like them, not because they are hiding their own God-given personality so much as because they look up to their fathers and want to emulate them. They will talk like them, act like them, conduct themselves like them, sometimes even dress like them. But later in life people come to understand that the son is actually a totally different person in some ways.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Warning long post!!!
Well I am a Gemini and I do have veneers.
As I said before Christianity has come to consider these things and such to be of the occult.
But also as I said, the journey to that was complicated and lengthy....and that road runs with blood and stacks of bodies. The driving force behind this caused Christianity...to commit atrocities that would dwarf the Holocaust to the point that it would make that event look like a spa summer camp. Today that hysteria or that type of fanaticism has cooled down a lot and probably it is a good thing. lol
Cultural perspectives have a tendency to have critical views of each other. lol And people are forever trying to judge the past. Even cavemen knew to cook their food...personal joke...sorry. Today one Christian denomination will be critical of another. Don't get me started on Calvinists and Jehovah Witnesses...lol But we are probably not going to torture them or burn them at the stake.
They say the devil is in the details...but people do not really pay much attention to the details. The Romans considered the Jewish marriage arrangement....polygamy....to be true husbandry...animalist The Jews practiced polygamy for a 1,000 years after Christ's ministry and it include concubines. On the other side of the coin...the Jews considered the Roman marriage arrangement to be heathenistic. A Roman's wife was a legal arrangement that involved property, stature, and legitimate children...but his love life may not have much to do with his wife and his lovers maybe male or female. The Romans did not do concubinage they just had a string of sexual encounters. The Christians to some degree made monogamy an institution....but it slowly developed into what might be called serial polygamy...marry...divorce...marry...divorce lol. Not multiple wives, just a few serially. What is the point of this? Perspectives!
In the Bible if Moses did something it is called a miracle of God...if a witch did it, it is called magic of Satan. Witch is a loaded word. Most witches are nature witches not satanic witches. Suffer not a witch to live = Meet witch, kill witch....3 million were killed, except most were Christian women. Which...witch...is a witch...the problem with this word is that it a medieval term...it did not occur in the Hebrew Bible because it could not have. If a witch or medium calls up those that have passed on, it is considered occultic behavior, when Christ did it, it was the Transfiguration. Pulling a rabbit out the hat...pulling fish out of basket...lol There were witches that were healers and of course Christ was a healer and some even in his time period said his powers came from Satan. And of course resurrecting people from the dead...some would call it occultic. If someone did that in the middle ages...Christian or not...they would find themselves in the hands of the inquisition or burnt at the stake or both.
The problem with all this is that when we call things like astrology or tarot cards evil or occultic, we are swing a double edge sword that might condemn things we do not mean to condemn and find yourself being a little hypocritical. As I said earlier witches were interested in Christ and used their Craft to forecast Him and His star...Then considered Him important enough to go the distance and give him a treasure of gifts and then worship Him...why? You have to be careful of traditions...they can overwrite the scriptures. "Oh three kings of orient are...." And the three wise men...wise men. The term wise men does not appear in the actual scriptures. The scriptures do not say that there was only three...that they were all men...or that they were from the orient...if they were from the east and saw the star in the east and followed it, they would be going in the wrong direction. The terms wise men or kings were inserted in the scriptures because those translating the scriptures did not like the word witch. Now calling them wise men...the Magi or Medi were considered wise. The term "craft" becomes associate with skills and develops into the term craftsmen.
Is Astrology evil?...religion based on stars? lol If some one told you about a religion that set it festivals and holy days by the movement and phases of the moon...ritualistically slaughtered animals... blood... guts... gore... threw the blood and organs on hot altars and smeared the blood on themselves....ritual ceremonies to cut a ring around their pee-pees....in war killed all that breathed, including children and even killed their wives and children when they were disobedient. Some might call that occultic, over and above Astrology and certainly if you did such things now you would find yourself in prison or an insane asylum. lol Except it is not to funny... know for sure that in the middle ages, what the Jews did in the OT was held against them and they were proclaimed witches and some faced the Christian Inquisition...and burnt alive. At one time they were kicked out of Spain, and that was the way of the Jews for centuries.
The middle ages and the era of the Renaissance was in swing and the Church proclaimed the thinkers of that time witches and occultic...and then you know what happened to some of them. Science more or less drug Christians into the 21st century kicking and screaming. Music boxes and organs were of the Devil! lol Well that soon changed, now churches have incredible sound systems and huge big screen TV's and broadcast through satellites 20,000 miles in space. But don't read your horoscope! Christianity is not into the power of celestial bodies... but are satellites celestial bodies?
Myself, theology and history has been a long educational process...here in the states...a few places in Europe and even Jerusalem. A bigger bubble...more things to consider...broader mind. The fruit of the tree...that which produces evil is evil and that which produces good is good. Medical surgery at one time was considered of the devil. It is what it is. I do not condemn Astrology or horoscopes...I know that I am a Gemini and agree with the assessment. And if I open the newspaper and see the horoscopes I might read them. It has been five or so years since I have, but that does not mean that tomorrow I won't. I once had my palm read by a Gypsy at a carnival....I am still waiting on the lottery lol
The dividing line for me is to Whom do you place your faith...to Whom do you place your trust? The Occult is real and it has ties to Christianity...lol..you do not believe me? Ask a Voodoo priest. Now do we want to get involved with all that to any real extent? Probably not. Talked to a lady...today...coincidental, ahh! She had a friend that died recently of no apparent causes. She said he was involved with the occult....I will stick with the newspapers. Then on the other hand there are people that will not play card or dice games or go to churches that have electronics...I am not going to condemn them either.
All things in perspective, we live in a country that sacrifices 600,000 babies a year and we allow it. I have bigger fish to fry.
Well I am a Gemini and I do have veneers.
As I said before Christianity has come to consider these things and such to be of the occult.
But also as I said, the journey to that was complicated and lengthy....and that road runs with blood and stacks of bodies. The driving force behind this caused Christianity...to commit atrocities that would dwarf the Holocaust to the point that it would make that event look like a spa summer camp. Today that hysteria or that type of fanaticism has cooled down a lot and probably it is a good thing. lol
Cultural perspectives have a tendency to have critical views of each other. lol And people are forever trying to judge the past. Even cavemen knew to cook their food...personal joke...sorry. Today one Christian denomination will be critical of another. Don't get me started on Calvinists and Jehovah Witnesses...lol But we are probably not going to torture them or burn them at the stake.
They say the devil is in the details...but people do not really pay much attention to the details. The Romans considered the Jewish marriage arrangement....polygamy....to be true husbandry...animalist The Jews practiced polygamy for a 1,000 years after Christ's ministry and it include concubines. On the other side of the coin...the Jews considered the Roman marriage arrangement to be heathenistic. A Roman's wife was a legal arrangement that involved property, stature, and legitimate children...but his love life may not have much to do with his wife and his lovers maybe male or female. The Romans did not do concubinage they just had a string of sexual encounters. The Christians to some degree made monogamy an institution....but it slowly developed into what might be called serial polygamy...marry...divorce...marry...divorce lol. Not multiple wives, just a few serially. What is the point of this? Perspectives!
In the Bible if Moses did something it is called a miracle of God...if a witch did it, it is called magic of Satan. Witch is a loaded word. Most witches are nature witches not satanic witches. Suffer not a witch to live = Meet witch, kill witch....3 million were killed, except most were Christian women. Which...witch...is a witch...the problem with this word is that it a medieval term...it did not occur in the Hebrew Bible because it could not have. If a witch or medium calls up those that have passed on, it is considered occultic behavior, when Christ did it, it was the Transfiguration. Pulling a rabbit out the hat...pulling fish out of basket...lol There were witches that were healers and of course Christ was a healer and some even in his time period said his powers came from Satan. And of course resurrecting people from the dead...some would call it occultic. If someone did that in the middle ages...Christian or not...they would find themselves in the hands of the inquisition or burnt at the stake or both.
The problem with all this is that when we call things like astrology or tarot cards evil or occultic, we are swing a double edge sword that might condemn things we do not mean to condemn and find yourself being a little hypocritical. As I said earlier witches were interested in Christ and used their Craft to forecast Him and His star...Then considered Him important enough to go the distance and give him a treasure of gifts and then worship Him...why? You have to be careful of traditions...they can overwrite the scriptures. "Oh three kings of orient are...." And the three wise men...wise men. The term wise men does not appear in the actual scriptures. The scriptures do not say that there was only three...that they were all men...or that they were from the orient...if they were from the east and saw the star in the east and followed it, they would be going in the wrong direction. The terms wise men or kings were inserted in the scriptures because those translating the scriptures did not like the word witch. Now calling them wise men...the Magi or Medi were considered wise. The term "craft" becomes associate with skills and develops into the term craftsmen.
Is Astrology evil?...religion based on stars? lol If some one told you about a religion that set it festivals and holy days by the movement and phases of the moon...ritualistically slaughtered animals... blood... guts... gore... threw the blood and organs on hot altars and smeared the blood on themselves....ritual ceremonies to cut a ring around their pee-pees....in war killed all that breathed, including children and even killed their wives and children when they were disobedient. Some might call that occultic, over and above Astrology and certainly if you did such things now you would find yourself in prison or an insane asylum. lol Except it is not to funny... know for sure that in the middle ages, what the Jews did in the OT was held against them and they were proclaimed witches and some faced the Christian Inquisition...and burnt alive. At one time they were kicked out of Spain, and that was the way of the Jews for centuries.
The middle ages and the era of the Renaissance was in swing and the Church proclaimed the thinkers of that time witches and occultic...and then you know what happened to some of them. Science more or less drug Christians into the 21st century kicking and screaming. Music boxes and organs were of the Devil! lol Well that soon changed, now churches have incredible sound systems and huge big screen TV's and broadcast through satellites 20,000 miles in space. But don't read your horoscope! Christianity is not into the power of celestial bodies... but are satellites celestial bodies?
Myself, theology and history has been a long educational process...here in the states...a few places in Europe and even Jerusalem. A bigger bubble...more things to consider...broader mind. The fruit of the tree...that which produces evil is evil and that which produces good is good. Medical surgery at one time was considered of the devil. It is what it is. I do not condemn Astrology or horoscopes...I know that I am a Gemini and agree with the assessment. And if I open the newspaper and see the horoscopes I might read them. It has been five or so years since I have, but that does not mean that tomorrow I won't. I once had my palm read by a Gypsy at a carnival....I am still waiting on the lottery lol
The dividing line for me is to Whom do you place your faith...to Whom do you place your trust? The Occult is real and it has ties to Christianity...lol..you do not believe me? Ask a Voodoo priest. Now do we want to get involved with all that to any real extent? Probably not. Talked to a lady...today...coincidental, ahh! She had a friend that died recently of no apparent causes. She said he was involved with the occult....I will stick with the newspapers. Then on the other hand there are people that will not play card or dice games or go to churches that have electronics...I am not going to condemn them either.
All things in perspective, we live in a country that sacrifices 600,000 babies a year and we allow it. I have bigger fish to fry.
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I learned to dislike my father for a long time. Long story and now I give him honor as the bible teaches. But I realized we were still the same. And yes I have changed over the years and he has too. God has changed me into more of a spiritual man like him instead of the natural man I was as the world taught me to be.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
I believe it.
Yeah, that sounds like a sad excuse to sin to me as well, LoL.
Ok, now don't take me as debating with you, as if I am insistent on my position or anything, but about the above quote I don't think it is talking about astrological "signs in the heavens." Diodorus Siculus wrote (and this is fully supported by statements made on Babylonian cuneiform tablets) that "the appearance of comets, eclipses of the sun and moon, and in fact every kind of change occasioned by the atmosphere, whether good or bad, both to nations and to kings and private individuals, were [in essence] omens of future events." The same can be seen in what the wise men saw who appeared to Herod to tell him a great king had been born.
Tell me, have you ever read the works on how the signs tell the story of the gospel? I'm referring to books like The Witness of the Stars by E.W. Bullinger, and the Gospel In The Stars by Joseph Seiss. It's relevant in that such books make a case that the signs of the zodiac were actually given by God to begin with, and only perverted by the nations into what we know as astrology today.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
LoL.
Ok, I get it, LoL.
Yes, technically the word was Magi in the Greek, and I was careful not to say there were three. :)
Man that was a long post, LoL. But yes, we are actually highly suspicious as a people. I made reference to astrology once in front of the mother of a young guy in my neighborhood I would play a little basketball with, and she looked at me like I was the Devil himself. I got a stern rebuke for it, eve though from what I could tell she had never been to a church service in half a decade, LoL.
But yeah. I think things like that are partly a symptom of having been condemned for something ourselves, so we tend to turn on others too when we are certain they have gone off the deep end morally. I have a very open mind in some ways, and I'm not always impressed with the opinions of the status quo, so I guess I'm not as susceptible to making snap judgments when it comes to things like this. I'm the same with theology. I don't care if it sounds like it's coming from outer space. If I check it out and it actually has some merit behind it scripturally, I will give it genuine thought before simply throwing out as being "unconventional" or "unorthodox."
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