Atheist objections to evidence for God's existence

[Vince]

i don't need any help to understand what a-theist means vince, and you can certainly call yourself whatever you like, ok, don't get me wrong

Then why do you argue with me on my stance? You clearly did not understand the entire definition.

 

[bbyrd009]

Look at my other post

Look at my post

Did you read my post

So like I said Vince, you get to make all the definitions, and we just have to abide by them right.
And we're just going to generate pages of yack until everyone agrees with you I guess, on this completely irrelevant point?

What is a "theist" iyo, being as how we're going by opinions now I guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Then why do you argue with me on my stance? You clearly did not understand the entire definition.

Mainly to introduce that scientists can still be hypocrites, vince
they still have strong desires, still have egos, etc
still want to be heard, still don't want to hear iow,
all the things believers might do too see, I do them all the time myself lol

 

[bbyrd009]

You are just ignorant

Look at my other post

Then you don't understand

Look at my post

See, you advertise that you came here to hear something, but who can tell you anything?

What do you want to hear, vince? Can you tell us that at least?

 

[bbyrd009]

some Rock Star--forget who now (ha, mighta been Pete or Rog I guess lol)--said it best, imo

"LOOK AT ME!"

"In 1676 an anomaly in the orbit of Io, Jupiter's innermost moon, led the astronomer Ole Roemer to make a very specific prediction. Io would appear from behind Jupiter at 5:37 pm on November 9, 1676, he said--and that would prove light travels with a finite speed. Roemer's mentor, Jean-Dominique Cassini, head of the Paris Observatory, rubbished the idea; light spread instantaneously, he said. His beliefs () led him to a different prediction. According to Cassini, it would be 5:27 when Io appeared.

Io appeared at 5:37 and 49 seconds. On hearing of this, Cassini announced that the facts fit with the story he had presented (faith). Although Cassini had made his (erroneous) prediction at a public gathering of scientists, not one of them demurred when he denied it; they all backed him up. Roemer had to wait fifty years (my bold) to be vindicated; only after Cassini had died did scientists accept that the speed of light was finite."
https://books.google.com/books?id=oP4AU5ACcU0C&pg=PA204&lpg=PA204&dq=In+1676+an+anomaly+in+the+orbit+of+Io,+Jupiter%27s+innermost+moon,&source=bl&ots=5Y-jeFwhU-&sig=EBRVx6_x_hQeRS0OzGmbD34Pw1M&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjm1d2xucfTAhWMNSYKHeuDCx0Q6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=In%201676%20an%20anomaly%20in%20the%20orbit%20of%20Io%2C%20Jupiter's%20innermost%20moon%2C&f=false

 

[bbyrd009]

I dunno if the lesson there is "beware of ppl who insist on what they know" exactly, but that might be close.

 

[bbyrd009]

And fwiw now might be a good time to go read

"They are all out of wine at the wedding"

 

[farouk]

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” (John 6:37)

Good, searching verse.

 

[Nancy]

This is condescending and ridiculous logic.

Is your belief the only thing stopping you from sinning? If so, that says a lot about your character and not mine. If not, then why do you assume this about me?

You are saying that I don't value truth and that my beliefs are choices. These are all wrong and claiming to know my intentions that are opposed to what I have actually written is calling me a liar.

This was not even directed at you Vince. Nor was it a reply to anything you posted. So YOU say I am claiming to know your intentions?! I don't know where you got that from what I replied to someone else's post.
My "belief" has never "stopped" me from sinning but, His grace and my prayers to hate sin like He does has come to fruition. It's not what we do or do not do that saves us. And, I am not sinless but, I no longer have the desire to sin...yet I still fall short at times. In the early 1990's, I attended Church services for a little over 4 years and, I was a "pew warmer", miserable. So, of course I stopped going and lived totally "in the world" again. Stayed out there for quite some time, nothing fulfilled, ever.
Fast forward to about 4 plus years ago...it all changed like, in a moment of total rock bottom, take it all surrender. My life has not been the same since, which still shocks me, ha!

"You are saying that I don't value truth and that my beliefs are choices." I never said or implied any such thing!
"claiming to know my intentions that are opposed to what I have actually written is calling me a liar." Where are you even getting all of this from??? I NEVER claimed any of what you are "telling" me I did! How did I say you don't value truth?! You do value evidence though and, nothing wrong with that...but, when it comes to the God of Christianity, He cannot be known by carnal "evidence" as He is Spirit. Yet, there is much historical evidence if one were to read, search and study historical records.
Me thinks you protest too much! You have attributed these things to yourself all on your own. I would NEVER claim I know yours or any intentions or your beliefs BUT...you have revealed your lack of belief all over your threads and posts, so in a sense, we all on here do know your belief, or lack of, in God.
Sorry if I offended you as that is never my intention. We are all free to post as we believe on here. After all, it is a Christian Forum.
Blessings to you and yours,
nancy

 

[Nancy]

Me too, I agree there, and since I dont like where the agreement is coming from alla sudden I would like to toss a wrench in that and say that while I guess that is surely true in a general sense, many will reject Him, IRL we do not interact with many, but few.

Our next interaction will almost surely be one on one, practically speaking anyway, right?
So then we become the one offering the choice, or doing the choosing, and imo you prolly can't do both

Oh Mark, I am so not following your point here

 

[Vince]

So like I said Vince, you get to make all the definitions, and we just have to abide by them right.
And we're just going to generate pages of yack until everyone agrees with you I guess, on this completely irrelevant point?

What is a "theist" iyo, being as how we're going by opinions now I guess

You took these phrases I said out of the context used to make a point that is false. I am using the definition of atheism that society has agreed with. It is in all current dictionaries. I have not made up any definitions and it ios not my opinion as I have shown you many times. Why do you continue to lie about me?

It is not an irrelevant point. Because you misrepresent my beliefs and tell me what I believe contrary to what I actually do believe and have said. That is dishonest at best.

 

[Vince]

See, you advertise that you came here to hear something, but who can tell you anything?

What do you want to hear, vince? Can you tell us that at least?

More out of context nonsense.

 

[Vince]

I dunno if the lesson there is "beware of ppl who insist on what they know" exactly, but that might be close.

The funny thing is that I am the only one here saying I don't know if a god exists, You and other Christians are making a claim that you know he does. This is more mind reading on your part.

 

[Vince]

This was not even directed at you Vince. Nor was it a reply to anything you posted. So YOU say I am claiming to know your intentions?! I don't know where you got that from what I replied to someone else's post.

I apologize for this. I think I got this mixed up with another thought or post.

My "belief" has never "stopped" me from sinning but, His grace and my prayers to hate sin like He does has come to fruition. It's not what we do or do not do that saves us. And, I am not sinless but, I no longer have the desire to sin...yet I still fall short at times. In the early 1990's, I attended Church services for a little over 4 years and, I was a "pew warmer", miserable. So, of course I stopped going and lived totally "in the world" again. Stayed out there for quite some time, nothing fulfilled, ever.
Fast forward to about 4 plus years ago...it all changed like, in a moment of total rock bottom, take it all surrender. My life has not been the same since, which still shocks me, ha!

I am glad your life is better.

"You are saying that I don't value truth and that my beliefs are choices." I never said or implied any such thing!
"claiming to know my intentions that are opposed to what I have actually written is calling me a liar." Where are you even getting all of this from??? I NEVER claimed any of what you are "telling" me I did! How did I say you don't value truth?!

I apologize again.

You do value evidence though and, nothing wrong with that...but, when it comes to the God of Christianity, He cannot be known by carnal "evidence" as He is Spirit. Yet, there is much historical evidence if one were to read, search and study historical records.

I have and I am unconvinced.

Me thinks you protest too much! You have attributed these things to yourself all on your own. I would NEVER claim I know yours or any intentions or your beliefs BUT...you have revealed your lack of belief all over your threads and posts, so in a sense, we all on here do know your belief, or lack of, in God.

I don't get angry when someone has a different opinion or comes to different conclusions than me, nor do I get angry if someone misunderstands me. What makes me angry is someone telling me that they know what I believe and how to identify myself. I am not saying you did this. bbyrd009 and others have consistently said that I don't believe god exists and that atheism is claim that a gods do not exist even though they have been showed their error. I have never told anyone that they don't really believe what the say they believe. Others have said that I believe in god but is suppressing that "truth" because of various reasons including that I just want to sin.

Sorry if I offended you as that is never my intention. We are all free to post as we believe on here. After all, it is a Christian Forum.

I believe you are not here to offend me. I do apologize for my unfair post.

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh Mark, I am so not following your point here

ha ya, tryna figure out where that came from myself lol.
Imo it is just maybe easy to jump to a conclusion, "they never will" in this case, that can influence our behavior in the moment, or even our "countenance," and this is then a spirit that we manifest which will influence the interaction with the few. Lots of examples coming to mind here, but I am minded of the many Arab (looking) Christians who were slaughtered during the Crusades simply for looking like Muslims, for some reason.

I'm trying to get to Expectations here, and not doing very well I guess lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

The funny thing is that I am the only one here saying I don't know if a god exists, You and other Christians are making a claim that you know he does. This is more mind reading on your part.

Vince, idc if you want to call yourself an atheist, I was mostly testing your resilience, your willingness to bend a little, ok. Fwiw I'll say that I already know for a fact, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the "Christian" god we are presented with today does not exist; and I am hardly alone in this I don't think

ag·nos·tic
/aɡˈnästik/
noun

1. 1.
   a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
   synonyms: sceptic, doubter, questioner, doubting Thomas, challenger, scoffer, cynic; More
   
   Now in that context you might reply to some of the last questions?
   What do you expect to get from CB?

 

[bbyrd009]

ex·ist
/iɡˈzist/
verb

1. 1.
   have objective reality or being.
   "there existed no organization to cope with espionage"
   
   See, God does not "exist" at all, in a very real sense. Attempting to attribute existence to God is a fool's errand, wadr. This is exactly why early Christians were deemed Atheists, the very thing you claim to be right.

Although this has been warped now I guess, and many "Christians" and even Muslims might confidently say that they are going to tell God stuff "when they meet Him" or whatever...do you think you might change their minds?

I could tell you how to be sure about God in a week, or surely less than two;
but wadr I don't think you are ready to go there. Christ is much more accessible, even through Nehushtan, ok. Christ you are already quite fam with, see

 

[Nancy]

ha ya, tryna figure out where that came from myself lol.
Imo it is just maybe easy to jump to a conclusion, "they never will" in this case, that can influence our behavior in the moment, or even our "countenance," and this is then a spirit that we manifest which will influence the interaction with the few. Lots of examples coming to mind here, but I am minded of the many Arab (looking) Christians who were slaughtered during the Crusades simply for looking like Muslims, for some reason.

I'm trying to get to Expectations here, and not doing very well I guess lol.[d/QUOTE]

Yeah, it's way too easy to jump to conclusions, and I'm not exempt from that from time to time. Do you think I jumped to the conclusion that so and so "...never will" come to the knowledge of the Truth? But then, others also jump to conclusions that are not what was intended (lost in translation).
I haven't heard anything about these Muslim look-alikes having to do with the Crusades, I would think that most in that part of the world would have looked Arab?
Yes, our behavior or countenance speaks volumes. So, be good

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

This is the immorality of Christian doctrine. Helping someone in need is only good if you believe in god.

No, these are people that have value that need help. It is offensive to call them pets.

People should feel good about helping another person. There is noting wrong with that.

, Who cares. The only thing Atheists have in common is a lack of belief in gods.

The point is that your good works (mans works) are not truly worthy, as such works will be burnt up and then seen for what they truly are.

What Christian does not give or help, I have never met one that does not.

I will point it out to you that, They are treated just as pets, in fact it's offensive to have too become a pet to such people.
Our true Aboriginals are and have been treated as Pets, they are given everything but when it comes to helping them to be able to help themselves up on their own bat, well that's disregarded like one would being an owner of a pet Cat that did the same. it's the owner who wants the glory in all things of what they did for the Cat and the Cat's effort so to speak is just dismissed in this case.

It's look at me giving and look what I did ! that's the Atheist point of view.

But from the Christian point of view it's not me that did any giving, it's the response due to Jesus not me, but Jesus only, I do not claim anything of my self and I do not tell anyone what I did or done ever or want recognition.

Atheists are a rabble that have more gods than you can poke a stick at regardless of what they may claim, they are only just too ignorant to know the fact.
Look at all the Socialist and wealthy right wing extremist clowns, they have gods that they peddle and worship 24/7.
Communism is a god don't you know, that moronic idiots follow, just as it is with Socialism and it's Political Correctness gods that you must follow ? or they will deal with you ! so as to make sure you follow such madness, or they will willingly work to destroy you and your family career etc etc in a heart beat and you are not allowed to think for yourself as that is forbidden, as you are just truly only seen as a nigga to them, enslaved like cattle that they do as they please with, that's the difference the Government owns you and they are your god and the poor stupid atheist does not know he is only a poor stupid foolish nigga enslaved by his own pathetic degenerate ignorance.

If you do not know Jesus Christ you are just a slave ! and nothing that you do is worthy of God.
If Jesus Christ is not truly in the picture, such is worthless.

What I am on about is to do with bearing fruit, everything that a Christian does all has to do with such a concept. one should not give in ignorance, just as one should not have faith in ignorance.

The Whole world must come to Jesus Christ or it can not truly bear fruit !

 

[Taken]

Saying things are facts because they come from the bible before the bible has been demonstrated to be from god or true is fallacious.

No. When "I" say Fact. When "I" say Scriptural Source. "I" am revealing "I" trust Scripture as a "Factual Source".
Regardless if MY source is acceptable to an other.

That is "MY" Bellief, "MY' testimony. Period.

You have made it CLEAR, "YOU" Do not Trust Scripture as a VIABLE SOURCE for yourself.

I studies the bible, was in bible classes for years at my church, read many apologetic books, videos and websites etc. I found the arguments sufficient at that time. Such as the argument from design, cosmological argument, ontological argument, seemingly answered prayer, I had a dream once where an angel spoke to me, I believed that my faith was proof as well. I believed the eyewitness accounts in the bible of the resurrection etc. I believed god spoke to me in my thoughts so to speak or with impressions. These are some of the reasons I believed.

Thank you for sharing...
What you have shared is...akin to what many other men do, and ALSO created "angels".

Hearing, Listening, Reading, the word of God, OF men Debating and Arguing the word of God, OF men Debating and Arguing Scientific Leaning....

Perhaps you would Consider this:

"EVERYTHING" (scripture, scientists, news outlets, politicians, teachers, parents, friends, salesmen, spouses, heavenly spirits, evil spirit etc.) you hear, listen to, read...
"IS INTENDED TO INFLUENCE YOU".

WHAT and WHEN and WHY you choose to Believe what YOU will, IS EXPRESSLY "your Choice"

And there are CONSEQUENCES FOR "WHAT" and "WHOM" you FREELY CHOOSE to Believe.

YOU freely Choose to BELIEVE;
A spouse, A politician, A teacher, A salesman, Scripture, etc....OR NOT.

YOU freely have the Congnative Ability to Cipher "IF" the spouse, politician, teacher, salesman, Scripture, etc.....
IS Information and Knowledge, that IS APPLICABLE to YOU Specific....OR NOT.

This needs to be confirmed or demonstrated in some way.

YOU freely have the Congnative Ability to Cipher "IF" the spouse, politician, salesman, Scripture, etc....
Tricked you, Lied to you, Defrauded you, etc.

YOU freey have the CHOICE to WALK AWAY, and not INVEST your time and effort "IN" an other who has Tricked you, Lied to you, Defrauded you, etc.

I sincerely sought and believed for many years.

You have NOT expressed, WHAT YOU TRULY EXPECTED for your having INVESTED TIME in Bible Study Classes, Reading Books, Watching Videos, Having Debates, Etc.

The Lords WAY is SIMPLE...
Seek the KNOWLEDGE "ABOUT" Him.
VERIFY what you HEAR from "OTHERS"...
WITH WHAT HE proclaims, and THAT WHICH actually APPLIES specifically TO YOU...

The WHOLE BIG PICTURE is about An INDIVIDUAL man;
Deciding to HEAR About God, About the Lord..
Deciding to VERIFY what he HEARS...
Deciding to TRUST what he HEARS...
Deciding to CONTINUE even when he LACKS UNDERSTANDING.
Deciding to make a STANDING of COMMITMENT to God, to the Lord.

DO YOU SEE...what JUST HAPPENED?
The "THRID" parties, (teachers, preachers, parents, etc.) were JUST REMOVED from the Equasion....
THEIR INFLUENCE, arguments, dictating, etc....JUST BECAME MOOT...ie IRRELEVANT!

The BIG Picture is IF YOU TRULY DESIRE a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP and STANDING with THEE LORD GOD;
"YOU ALONE," have to DECIDE if you are WILLING TO TRUST "HIM", regardless of WHAT OTHER MEN decide.

Every MORTAL man BEGINS his Natural Mortal Life, USING his SENSES...
Sight, hearing, Logical weighting of what makes sense to his MIND...etc.

God is NOT a salesman, trying to CONVINCE your MIND of ANYTHING.

God DOES NOT PROMISE you, He will Step in and FIX all your DEALINGS with; spouses, parents, teachers, salesmen, etc....that DIDN'T work out as YOU Believed or were Told, or Expected.

Nor WILL God FIX any lies or underhanded things you may have done to Others.

All of YOUR dealings with OTHER PEOPLE, are for YOU to enjoy, and for YOU to suffer the Consequences should they not TURN out as YOU hoped or expected.

And ALL of YOUR dealings WITH GOD, are for you to enjoy, and for YOU to suffer the Consequences should YOU back out on what you AGREED TO.

TO the point ~
You reveal your influences.
You reveal you "once" believed.
You revealed you may have claimed to "believe" for the wrong reasons.
You reveal you "have" not seen God.
You reveal you 'have" not heard God.
You reveal you "have" sought through prayer.
You reveal satisfaction in dubbing yourself an Ahteist.
You revealed your frustration.
You revealed your solution is for SOMEONE to demonstrate PROOF of Gods existance, it must be PROOF according to YOUR "caveat".
You appear, as one who comes to a Forum where Believers gather, to Challenge a Converted man, TO CONVERT YOU.

AGAIN...IT is YOU ALONE, who has to FREELY CHOOSE to HAVE a Relationshiip with God, with the Lord.

There are NO MAGIC Words that Transforms a man from a naturally born man, to a spiritually born man.

It is a PROCESS, BETWEEN YOU exclusively and the Lord.

There is ONLY ONE REASON, to BELIEVE and ONLY ONE REASON to NOT BELIEVE....
ANYONE else....be it a spouse, teacher, parent, God.

PEOPLE BELIEVE...."WHOM THEY TRUST".
People "TRUST"...those WHOM are HONEST with them.

YOU have to DECIDE and be honest with yourself, of WHY you DO NOT TRUST God.

Stop with the superficial mindful "believed, don't believe" and get to the real issue.

God is NOT Listening to YOUR MIND.
Did you READ THAT? STUDY THAT?
Did you DISCOVER "WHAT" God Listens to when A MORTAL Natural Born Man SEEKS after God?

Just saying; men can tell me all day long they have been searching for a car, believed they would find one, no longer believe they can find one....
And then come to find out, they have been searching in a Junk Yard, instead of a Car Lot, I am not a bit surprised at their frustrating conclusion.

Glory To God,
Taken