Atheist objections to evidence for God's existence

[Reggie Belafonte]

I agree that our world is amazing and complex. I also agree that people are bent toward selfishness that causes a lot of problems in this world.

I use teh results of science in my job everyday, I love to learn about how the universe works but complexity does not indicate a god had to create it.

I am profile in all situations but Satan has nothing to do with pro choice people. They just believe different things based on the evidence they are provided. It is our job to convince them that they have evaluated the evidence incorrectly. telling them they are demon possessed is unproductive toward your goal, if your goal is less abortions.

This describes many Christians.

Your bible also informs us that gays should be killed, slavery was supported by god and genocide is ok if god ordains it. Where is the evidence that the bible is true?

I would never say I am a good person. I would say that I have done good and bad things. I look at the bad things I have done and try to learn form them to better myself and do as much good in the world as I can. Your god only wants to condemn everyone and say the good people have done is not really good unless they believe in me. The Atheist Community of Austin feeds and clothes more homeless people in that city than any other nonprofit organization. Your god would say their good works are filthy rags. I bet the people they are helping would not.

The thing is that the feeding of the poor etc is not what Jesus is truly all about as any fools can do such, one must better that of the Pharisees. and yes they are filthy rags, but just only filthy rags just the same. you need much more than that, to feed on for a day etc and to boast just does not cut it when one can see the big picture.
Did we not ? in your name ? and Jesus said that I never knew you ?

No your worldly works don't cut it in reality when one can see the whole picture.
If such people are only being feed like pets, are they not ? no they should be empowered by the Holy Spirit first and foremost and then bingo ! they are not filthy rags but worthy of God ! not enslaved as pets, that make the ignorant pleased and proud of their own works. no it goes beyond such in Christ and this is a much better way for all by far, as the numbers of such will not be their in the first place now would there !

Hey I can point to a Atheist mate of mine, who has ripped off many people and has helped destroy Marriages in his dealings, but he is a great bloke, just ask him ! he gives money to the poor if it helps with his tax. yep people are in the s1ht because of him, but he can not see such. he really can't or just does not give a toss at all.
This is his way of thinking, why does not everyone try to take advantage of every situation and if they don't, then they must be taught a lesson, because he claims that they are weak or stupid ? they took his word for it ? but it's not in writing and when it come to the crunch what he spun in a display of Oh trust me ! it's just worthless. I have see such many a time played out in many ways all my life.

It's a way of going about using others that they enjoy and they will say anything to look good in the eyes of all around them, Oh displays of Political Correctness that elevated such to another level of so called saint hood, saying all the wonderful words that fools want to hear. but just milking them for all they can. they do not bear fruit for a Nation, they poison it all.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Sodomies had to be killed in the OT, because they are toxic and they can never be a part of Israel, because they do not serve God, such only serve their own gods idols and only are a cancer on a Nation.
Slavery is because of opposition to God, Satan enslaves one from the stain of original Sin roots, all people were Slaves until Jesus Christ and he is the only one that Salvation abounds and once you turn form that then you are on the path to becoming enslaved by your sinful nature that one is a slave to.
It's in fact abiding in Sin that is the ingredients that turns people into Slaves.

 

[brakelite]

They are right. There is no evidence for the existence of the assumed false god they perceive in their own minds that they insist, does not exist. No atheist, not knowing God, nor caring to any great degree, can have an accurate perception of who God is, (many professing Christians have enough difficulty with that one, and believe in a false perception of God despite clear evidence to the contrary...think about that a while)...therefore their mixed up perceptions and assumptions paint a picture of a god for which there is clearly no evidence. Demanding evidence for something that does not exist seems somewhat futile don't you think? The tragedy of the situation is that many of their false conceptions of God come from screwed up misconceptions of the character of God given them by Christians.
But there is plenty of evidence for the God who does exist as revealed by Himself in creation...in His word...and in those who believe. But that God, the one for whom there is ample evidence, is not the God they want to know or acknowledge, because such a God demands submission to His authority and sovereignty. (Not all Christians want to know that God either). So all evidence that points in His direction is not considered sufficient because it isn't the god they have devised and therefore doesn't meet their own misplaced criteria.

 

[brakelite]

This is true but in a different way. God tested humanity in Adam. And when Adam failed, all failed being proven a corrupt species. So God created this knowing the outcome. He then arbitrarily chose a bunch from among the rejects and represented them himself in Christ. So now judging them on Christ's merits, just as he had previously judged them on Adam's merits.

Dave, Aren't we trying to convince atheists of God...not put them off. To tell someone that they don't believe because that's the way God wants it is a crappy way of presenting the gospel. "God is not willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance", does not mean all except Vince.

 

[brakelite]

Demanding or expecting evidence for God is superfluous to requirements for a faith in God. Having a sure evidence for God is merely icing on the cake. A lack of evidence doesn't stop people from believing in God...it does however help to establish a stronger more consistent faith that becomes genuine trust. I am convinced that God will provide plenty of evidence for anyone ...not to create faith...but to develop a relationship.
I can agree with those Christians who declare no amount of evidence could deter them from their faith. Such evidence would be an impossibility. It would be like asking me to disbelieve I ever had a father. I knew him for only 12 years but there would be no possible evidence that could be produced to even slightly suggest I would have grounds to stop believing in him. That is why I wonder at @Vince 's statement that he spent 18 years a Christian and then walked away because evidence he once relied on he now considers insufficient. That tells me Vince you never actually met God. Or if you did, you are now denying it was God and putting it down to your imagination. Seems to me that by shifting the goalposts you are your own worst enemy. If God has already made Himself known to you, in a manner of HIS choosing, (after all, let us allow God to be God right, )then it ain't His fault you now deny Him.

 

[Deborah_]

Hebrews 11.1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Whatever this enigmatic verse (in KJV) means, it's NOT that "faith is believing things despite or in the absence of evidence"!

"Faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." (NIV)

“Faith is not belief without proof, but trust without reservations – a trust in a God who has shown Himself worthy of that trust.” (Allister McGrath)

 

[Dave L]

Dave, Aren't we trying to convince atheists of God...not put them off. To tell someone that they don't believe because that's the way God wants it is a crappy way of presenting the gospel. "God is not willing that any should perish, but that all come to repentance", does not mean all except Vince.

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” (John 6:37)

 

[OzSpen]

I see the wonders of the universe. I agree that it is amazing but there is no reason to believe it was created by a god. Because our universe is complex does not mean it had to be created by a god. That is a leap of logic saying I know of no other explanation so goddidit.

Who made such majesty and enormity?

 

[Taken]

What are the reasons why atheists reject the evidence for God's existence?

Oz

They demand PROOF, (according to THEIR satisfaction) before they would CONSIDER Believing.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[brakelite]

“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.” (John 6:37)

That is an interesting quote, and if we understand it to mean what you want it to mean, then the texts immediately prior, and subsequent to verse 37, if we are going to be consistent,
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not....
….53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

must mean that the Father force feeds us His Son. If that is the God you are trying to sell, I want none of Him.

So what is stopping a sinner, tired, condemned, addicted, scorned by society and bereft of friends and all hope, who hears the gospel, faith is kindled, he believes the gospel and chooses to call upon the Father who gives such a one to His Son? This takes place all over the world, people reaching out and accepting the promise of forgiveness and newness of life through the power of the gospel's word of light and promise, and each one bows in humility and thankfulness to a gracious and merciful God who would stoop so low as to become a target of scorn and derision in their stead, shedding His blood an atonement for sin. To condemn such as these with your accusations of pride and boasting and stealing away from them their hope and joy because in your warped estimation they have worked and attempted to ingratiate themselves into the kingdom through a false gospel is doing Satan's work, and it is you and your friends who should stand condemned and ashamed.

 

[Dave L]

That is an interesting quote, and if we understand it to mean what you want it to mean, then the texts immediately prior, and subsequent to verse 37, if we are going to be consistent,
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not....
….53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

must mean that the Father force feeds us His Son. If that is the God you are trying to sell, I want none of Him.

So what is stopping a sinner, tired, condemned, addicted, scorned by society and bereft of friends and all hope, who hears the gospel, faith is kindled, he believes the gospel and chooses to call upon the Father who gives such a one to His Son? This takes place all over the world, people reaching out and accepting the promise of forgiveness and newness of life through the power of the gospel's word of light and promise, and each one bows in humility and thankfulness to a gracious and merciful God who would stoop so low as to become a target of scorn and derision in their stead, shedding His blood an atonement for sin. To condemn such as these with your accusations of pride and boasting and stealing away from them their hope and joy because in your warped estimation they have worked and attempted to ingratiate themselves into the kingdom through a false gospel is doing Satan's work, and it is you and your friends who should stand condemned and ashamed.

Don't worry about God forcing himself on you. Instead he gives us a new heart that loves him.

“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6)

 

[brakelite]

Don't worry about God forcing himself on you. Instead he gives us a new heart that loves him.

Again, I agree, however no heart transplant takes place without our recognition and acceptance of our great need and willingness to throw away the crutches that we thought would hold us up, in favour of the precious gift offered. Selling all for the pearl of great price is our work.

 

[Dave L]

Again, I agree, however no heart transplant takes place without our recognition and acceptance of our great need and willingness to throw away the crutches that we thought would hold us up, in favour of the precious gift offered. Selling all for the pearl of great price is our work.

Like I said, God will not force you to believe in the weakness of the flesh. He will first give us a new heart so we can believe.

 

[Taken]

I disagree. I searched for 18 years and came to the conclusion that there is not good evidence that god exists.

The World teaches Evidence exists on Facts.
Facts exist on what is "SHOWN", that can be "SEEN" and "LOGICALLY ciphered with the MIND, to Conclude the FACTS are Reasonably TRUE."

FLAT OUT, God has Revealed, the Carnal Mind IS AGAINST Him.

Rom 8
[7]...the carnal mind is enmity against God:

Thus FLAT OUT;
Trying to SEE God;
Trying to Understand God from A Mindful Weighing, Ciphering to land on Logical Conclusion IS a FAIL.

Many times I begged god for knowledge but he never revealed himself.

1) FACT...
Gods Revelations to Mankind IS Precisely HOW God "HAS" revealed "HIS KNOWLEDGE" TO Mankind.

2) FACT...
Gods Directives for Mankind TO "SPEAK" "His Knowledge" and TO "WRITE" "His Knowledge" IS Precisely "HOW" God Designed "His Knowledge" to BECOME Distributed Among Generation after Generations of Mankind.

3) FACT...
God IS Unseen, and SHALL remain Unseen,,, UNTIL such time; "A" man IS "made WHOLE", and the "THAT" "WHOLE" man, has Become Glorified.

4) FACT...
Knowledge and Understanding are not the same things.

Knowledge comes First.
The Understanding of the Knowledge comes Later.

I wish god does exist.

1) FACT...
Many "gods" exist.

2) FACT...
Thee Heavenly Lord God Creater and Maker of All things, Exists, whether or not one Wishes, Believes, or Does not Believe.

If there is sufficient evidence to believe I will.

You disclosed a Point relevant to Yourself...

I searched for 18 years and came to the conclusion that there is not good evidence that god exists.

However your POINT, lacks FACTS.
For "Example"...
1) Searched where?
2) What evidence did you Determine was Acceptable to you?
3) What part of YOU (mind, soul, spirit) were you Hoping to Be shown Evidence?

Many will lie about me and claim that I was never sincere or that I just want to live in my sin or some hogwash like that. When they say things like that it only proves to me how morally bankrupt they have become due to their religion because they are saying things about me that I know are not true and they refuse to acknowledge the possibility that I am telling the truth. I am not trying to prove evidence wrong, I am looking for evidence with reasonable skepticism.

You have skepticism concerning God.
You provide a slim version you have tried, but leave out Facts.
You present yourself as a bonafide Atheist...
Then feel put out, when others are skeptic of your intentions.

Scripture is FULL of Gods KNOWLEDGE, forward for Mankinds Benefit.

And there IS A WAY, and Order so to speak, for ANY Individual who DESIRES to be accounted in Standing "WITH" thee Lord God, to BECOME "IN Standing" "WITH" thee Lord God.

It "begins" at the beginning of an individuals Choice to Effect His DESIRE....

It does not "begin," with an Individual embracing, focusing on and dwelling on his Rejection, Criticism and Challenging of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

examining "desire" is imo a good approach

Hebrews 11.1: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

I quite love the v, but quite detest what we turn it into, Magical Thinking. But as past experience tells me you won't engage with me I'll just say that starting a chapter with "Now..." suggests to me that some, um, prior Reading is almost mando in order to understand the v correctly? And if I have personally offended you, I apologize. Fwiw it might serve you to see that I basically cannot even speak out loud in public for the same reason. Well at least when I'm in the world

"A real friend talks smack to your face, and speaks well of you behind your back"
maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

Oh yes, agreed. And that is why there will be very few who take the narrow road. They loved their sin more than God. Even though God wishes something does not mean it will happen as, if you believe He gave us free will to "Choose this day whom you will serve.", then God knows that many have and will continue to reject Him.
In other words Oz, we agree

Me too, I agree there, and since I dont like where the agreement is coming from alla sudden I would like to toss a wrench in that and say that while I guess that is surely true in a general sense, many will reject Him, IRL we do not interact with many, but few.

Our next interaction will almost surely be one on one, practically speaking anyway, right?
So then we become the one offering the choice, or doing the choosing, and imo you prolly can't do both

 

[bbyrd009]

Again, I agree, however no heart transplant takes place without our recognition and acceptance of our great need and willingness to throw away the crutches that we thought would hold us up, in favour of the precious gift offered. Selling all for the pearl of great price is our work.

Word

imo we should be putting "it is finished" in this conversation

 

[bbyrd009]

Like I said, God will not force you to believe in the weakness of the flesh. He will first give us a new heart so we can believe.

I like the words dave, but imo the "us" is undefined?

See, God will also "give us" twice the sons of hell, and or seven worse spirits too, right

 

[Vince]

The thing is that the feeding of the poor etc is not what Jesus is truly all about as any fools can do such, one must better that of the Pharisees. and yes they are filthy rags, but just only filthy rags just the same. you need much more than that, to feed on for a day etc and to boast just does not cut it when one can see the big picture.
Did we not ? in your name ? and Jesus said that I never knew you ?

This is the immorality of Christian doctrine. Helping someone in need is only good if you believe in god.

No your worldly works don't cut it in reality when one can see the whole picture.
If such people are only being feed like pets, are they not ?

No, these are people that have value that need help. It is offensive to call them pets.

no they should be empowered by the Holy Spirit first and foremost and then bingo ! they are not filthy rags but worthy of God ! not enslaved as pets, that make the ignorant pleased and proud of their own works. no it goes beyond such in Christ and this is a much better way for all by far, as the numbers of such will not be their in the first place now would there !

People should feel good about helping another person. There is noting wrong with that.

Hey I can point to a Atheist mate of mine...

, Who cares. The only thing Atheists have in common is a lack of belief in gods.

 

[Dave L]

I like the words dave, but imo the "us" is undefined?

See, God will also "give us" twice the sons of hell, and or seven worse spirits too, right

Us = those who believe in Christ as an effect of salvation as opposed to those who think they believe in Christ as a means of salvation.