Attack, Accuse, Tempt

[Robbie]

I've noticed this pattern in my life of when I fall and it goes something like this.

1) First the enemy attacks me through some kind of negativity in my life.

2) He accuses God to me, "If God loves you why is this happening to you", "If Jesus died for your sins why are you still suffering"

3) Then he tempts me... "Since God sucks you should just sin... fulfilling some kind of lust will make you feel better."

I've found that as long as He doesn't get me with number 2 he can't get me with number 3.

It's when I start to look at the Father through my perception of what's going on that he can get me to doubt my Father's goodness and once he get's me to doubt my Fathers goodness he can tempt me.

It seems like as long as I look at God through Christ alone he can't get me to doubt my Father's goodness... and as long as I don't doubt my Father the enemy has no power to tempt... but I can find this hard some times when I'm going through the enemies attacks.


Anyone else have similar experiences?

 

[Rach1370]

Hey Robbie. I love how you are so honest about your life. I'm not sure that I've viewed my struggles like that (although that could just be a lack of perception on my part!).
I've struggled with a chronic illness for about half my life (and I'm really not that old!!). It's taken me many years, probably too many, to find a peace in my situation. Quite apart from the obvious woes of being ill, I've found it so hard in my Christian walk. Being so unwell so much of the time has meant that I haven't been able to be involved in my Church hardly at all. I always felt that even bad things could be used for God's glory; but I just couldn't understand God allowing me something that actually hindered me growing in Him, and having fellowship with His other children.
I suppose it could have been the enemy whispering to me of what I couldn't do...but I suspect I was capable of that negativity and sin myself!
But after many years I've finally stopped looking at all the things I couldn't do and started realizing how many I could! Sermons are on the web...really good ones, that have helped me grow. I've gained a level of community out of forums like this. I've increased my reading and knowledge of my wonderful Savior, and have realized that I can be a 'prayer warrior' wherever I am!
And the amazing thing is, that God seems to have blessed me....all of a sudden, my tiny community has both a church and a bible study, both I am able to attend and find so very encouraging! This year I'm even hoping to help out with some things...scripture maybe...whatever they need!
I wouldn't wish sickness on anyone, but honestly, mine has brought me closer to God and given me a level of trust, faith and love, I'm fairly confident I wouldn't have had otherwise.

So I suppose when I break it down, yes....it all has to do with focusing on Jesus and not on what we can perceive as 'woes' in our own lives.
Nice post....got me thinking!!

 

[Robbie]

You got me thinking to... thanks for your honesty... I believe there's no greater gift we can offer each other than the willingness to live honestly with each other... I used to wonder what, "If we walk in the light we have fellowship with one another" meant. And then one day I got honest with my Mom (Lived in the light) and told her about how I had done drugs before and some other stuff that was hard to be honest about. Her response was, "Wow... I never would have known that about you" and what I realized she was actually saying was, "Wow... I never would have known you" I've found now that living in the light (being honest with each other about our true inward selves) is the foundation of fellowship and without light fellowship is just an illusion. Because if we're all pretending to be someone we're not when we hang out with each other we really don't know each other at all.

Thanks so much again for your willingness to be real about your struggles... I'm glad that you're coming to a place of revelation that everything is working for your good... I've found when we open ourselves up it makes others feel comfortable to open themselves up... some people might take us being real and trample that under their feet and turn and tear us to pieces... but those aren't people that are really worth our pearls...

I remember the first home bible study I ever attended... there was a bunch of young girls who were close friends... they all thought each other were virgins... well we started talking openly and once one person was willing to confess that they had slipped up and had premarital sex all of a sudden this opened everyone up and by the end of the study the truth was out and the reality was no one in the room was a virgin. This allowed us to talk openly about our struggles, temptations, etc... and to realize we weren't alone. That there was no sin that we were dealing with that wasn't common to man.

I think that's why so many priests end up getting busted for some really creepy sexual sin... they probably start off with normal desires like attraction to woman but because so much pressure is put on them to be "PERFECT" they end up living in darkness about what's going on inside of them. And when what's going on inside of us is hidden from the light it allows the darkness to grow to a point of complete wickedness.

I know what I just wrote went off topic but it was on my heart so I shared... hope that's OK and that it blesses...

Robbie

 

[Martin W.]

Hi Robbie.

I understand what you are saying. Thank you.
I have been there , and expect most of us have.

Here is some of my experience.
Some things will sound contradictory , but it is actually how I felt at the time.

I became a christian 25 years ago.
I am a pretty solid guy , not much gets me down. I handle problems well.
As a new christian I was always on cloud 9 , happy and thankful , stronger than ever.
Except for the days I writhed in anguish and guilt over some little thing I did wrong.
The days after that , even worse. Feelings of failure.Feelings of guilt.
Like being pulled through a knothole until all I could say was ...
Lord I give up. I had to be honest. I am not as good as I think I should be.
Then the Lord came back (he was always there) and pulled me back up to glorious cloud 9 again.
Life was good until the next knothole.

I think most of us go through those ups and downs.
Sometimes it is emotions , sometimes spiritual conditioning.
I am the most solid Christian I know.
God has me busy on a huge project (book)
He has put things in my lap that can only come by miracle.
He proves himself continually.
I am talking solid visible , observable proof.

But I still hit a brick wall once in a while. I feel guilty when I do the littlest thing wrong. It tempts me to want to say the heck with it and go do a whole bunch of big things wrong while I am at it. Once I pull through my guilt and feelings of failure , I look back and see that I have been reconditioned and improved a bit and I am thankful. Even though I hated it at the time. I think the best of us get the most conditioning.

Sounds contradictory , but through all the crap I am somehow still the most solid , happy christian I know. If the Lord feels far away I still know he is near and spiritual cloud 9 is right around the corner soon.

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

I lean heavily on that verse at times. Basically it says there is no guilt that can be applied against the christian. The mistakes are paid for. the guilt can consume us if we let it. The guilt can be worse for us than the mistake we made that makes us feel guilty in the first place.

I am guilty as hell , but I brush the dust off and carry on anyway like I am some kind of pure christian. The author of sin hates it , but if I do not let guilt have a hold on me , I find sin has less of a hold on me. The freedom that Christianity offers is amazing . We just have to remember to apply it. Wipe the slate clean , apply forgiveness , dump the guilt , do better next time. That is the essence of Christianity. The Lord does not count our mistakes. We count them ourselves and the devil reminds us of them.

I remind myself there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Thats what I do. Life is good. Till the next knothole.

Arnie Martin
Woodside

ps: Robbie
I will send you an autographed copy of the book. I am hoping it will be done this spring. It will make you sit up straight in your chair and say wow. The news is good. The creator is on the move again and the nation of Israel is the recipient of favor. That is all I can say for now.

In payment , I want one of your autographed photos . You have a gift of capturing creation beauty on film. Makes me say wow !!! Absolutely beautiful pictures. I find your talents are a blessing . Thank you.

 

[Martin W.]

You got me thinking to... thanks for your honesty... I believe there's no greater gift we can offer each other than the willingness to live honestly with each other...

I just read the post by Rach and your reply.

I think you nailed it. Honesty is important (sometimes rare)
I am an honest person but am reluctant to be honest around others . It is a matter of not trusting them with my honesty. I am talking about being around other christians , and being reluctant to reveal honestly my faults and weaknesses. I hold back because I want to be perceived as being the good christian they think I am

Yet on the few occasions I have been honest (confessed my faults to another trusted christian) , I have found it tremendously beneficial. It is like releasing a private secret problem , and it is disarmed once revealed. Once revealed it becomes less of a problem and sometimes no longer a problem.

But I confess that it it the other trusted friend that shares his problem first , then I feel secure enough to do the same.

I am not catholic , but I think there is merit to their confessional booth.

The early church used to gather , confess their sins and then worship and fellowship.
I think a lot of problems (sins) could be disarmed by confession.

I would find it extremely difficult to confess my sins in public on Sunday morning in front of the congregation. I do not have any deep dark secrets. Just a few little ones and I guard them with my life

Back to the word honesty. I feel it is very important.
I am at least honest with myself and with my Lord. That is a good start.
I try to let other Christians know that I am not as good as I look
I am a pretty tough guy , not afraid of much in life.
But I find confession amongst a group of Christians terrifying.
Maybe because I don't trust them .
A true christian fellowship should be absolutely built on trust.
I have yet to find one.
I'm not brave enough to start one.
Yet I claim to be fearless.
Go figure


True confession.

A.Martin

 

[aspen]

Great posts!

I've mentioned this before, but the confession booth comment reminded me.....

I liked the idea the 5 Christians came up with at Reed College (yes there were only five that year) - for their final project they had to set up a booth at a new-agey type fair put on by the senior class. So they decided to set up a confession booth to apologize for all the sins of the church over the past 2000 years. Students were in tears - it was very healing. It was repeated at the Saturday Market in Portland OR a year later with similar results. Once Christians take off all pretenses and really connect with people healing really happens and people's lives are impacted and changed.

 

[Rach1370]

Hey Robbie....liked your thoughts on 'living in the light'. Our bible study has just finished going though Johns books. I think you nailed it....you too Martin W.
We simply cannot even pretend to live in the light if our very deeds and thoughts are all in darkness. That's why confession and then repentance is so very important...not only to ourselves and our walk, but to fellow Christians and their walk as well! After all, how can we encourage when we lie...and when we fear that everything others say is a lie as well?

 

[veteran]

And maybe some Scripture to go with that?

1 Cor 10:13
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
(KJV)

Luke 10:19-20
19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
(KJV)

Good witness Robbie, Martin.

Other than temptations from this world that are common to all of us, I think we ourselves can cause some of our own problems by decisions we make by listening to our flesh. A couple of things to do I know works. When temptations begin cast the evil spirits back to the pit in the Name of Jesus Christ. Another thing to do is to anoint yourself with oil, and the door posts of your dwelling, casting evil out the door in the Name of Jesus Christ.

 

[aspen]

St Antony the Hermit threw himself into a nearby thorn bush and thrashed around until the demon of lust left him - demon control can get pretty tricky

 

[Robbie]

Good words everyone...

I enjoyed what everyone shared...

It was funny after I wrote this I went through kind of a heavy attack... satan tried to accuse God to me but the Lord put on my heart, "It's faith that overcomes the world... if you're still able to doubt who I am... are you suprised you haven't fully overcome yet?" Then it made sense... I need to believe He's good no matter what... this is the faith that evercomes the world... this is achieved by me keeping my eyes on Jesus... I'm pretty sure if when Peter stepped out of the boat and walked on water that if he would have had 100% focus on the Lord and not looked at the waves that he never would have sunk...

As far as living in the light...

I kind of see it like the most important element to feeling comfortable in living in the light is surrounding ourselves with people who have realized no matter what we tell them they know they're no better than us... that even if we tell them we murdered someone they'd realize that if they've even hated someone they're just as guilty as us... living in the light has no relevance to our self righteousness.... murderers and thiefs are living more in the light if they're honest about how they kill and steal... than christians are if they can't even be honest about the fact that they struggle with lusting over a Victoria Secret Ad.... haha

Thanks for the offer Martin... I'm horrible about reading but I'll do my best to read your book... as far as my shots no worries... I don't really print any of them out but just let me know which ones you want and I'll send you the high res file... no worries about any return... the Lord gave me the moment... I just pushed a button... haha... freely I received... freely I give... so no worries...

Here's a shot from tonight's sunset... our FATHER IS GOOD!!!

Hope this blesses...

 

[Jobeliano]

I've noticed this pattern in my life of when I fall and it goes something like this.

1) First the enemy attacks me through some kind of negativity in my life.

2) He accuses God to me, "If God loves you why is this happening to you", "If Jesus died for your sins why are you still suffering"

3) Then he tempts me... "Since God sucks you should just sin... fulfilling some kind of lust will make you feel better."

I've found that as long as He doesn't get me with number 2 he can't get me with number 3.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

This pattern also happens to me . Someone please help me .........

EDIT:
I'm having problems on number 2.

 

[aspen]

This pattern also happens to me . Someone please help me .........

EDIT:
I'm having problems on number 2.

suffering is part of life and we are called to love through it. The point of the Christian life is not to avoid problems - it is to learn to love and forgive through the problems.

 

[Jobeliano]

suffering is part of life and we are called to love through it. The point of the Christian life is not to avoid problems - it is to learn to love and forgive through the problems.

I sometimes doubt God's goodness.....

 

[Robbie]

How is it that the first three letters of your name is Job? interesting homie... Job doubted God's goodness to... he tried to play that off by saying stuff like, "Oh even though God's doing this to me I still worship Him" well guess what Job... if you really believed God was good you would have said, "This can't be God doing this to me because my Father loves me" but instead he goes on to make himself look good and God look like a jerk... like Job was some dog that God was kicking but Job was still willing to lick His boots... I hate that self righteous bull... I love when the young dude comes up to Job and says something like, "You'd rather justify yourself than God?" Job's number one mistake was thinking God was the culprit of his problems... because when we really know the Father we never blame Him for our trials, we ask Him to deliver us from them because we know God doesn't give us evil, He delivers us from it... He only gives us good because He is only good... there is no darkness in Him.

I do believe that if Job had the revelation of the Father that was in Jesus he probably would have known clearly that it wasn't the Father that was hurting him because what was happening to him didn't match our Father's character... it matched the ruler of this world's.

Because of Jesus the ruler of this world is judged because when we clearly see the Father through Him we see that nothing bad comes from Him... that's when we clearly see that all the problems in this world are from the ruler of this world and not from God... because anything Jesus wouldn't do God wouldn't do... just like everything Jesus did is what the Father does.

So I feel you homie and I've been right where you're at even to the point of telling God to F Off... but what saved me is everytime I looked at Jesus I loved him because in Him I saw everything good... keep your eyes on Him bro and not the waves of trials that come from the enemy and you'll make it through these times... guaranteed... and know you're not alone brother... satan pulls the same shiz on all of us... and if he's not accusing us to God... he's accusing God to us... can't wait for our Father to shut that guys mouth... and I pray our Father does it soon... because I personally am sick of hearing his stupid mouth... I only want to hear our Father and His Word...

Hope this blesses... He loves us... He's only Good...

Robbie

 

[Larry Conlley]

The Angels of God would not even let you stand with Job. You say alot of things that are flat out not true. Job was a great man of God. Far greater than you.

 

[aspen]

I sometimes doubt God's goodness.....

Doubt strengthens you because it makes you think deeply about important ideas. There is nothing easy about this life - Jesus told us not to play by the world's rules because you will end up bitter, cheated, envious, paralyzed (emotionally), angry, and isolated. If you opt out of the world's plan and respond to all the hardship with empathy, love, and forgiveness you will be redeemed. It doesn't seem fair because it is not fair and if you respond with love for God and others you will not have to pay the price with your life.

God's goodness doesn't seem logical by the world's standards, we will never fully understand it until we meet Him in Heaven - love is weakness according to the world and it is exactly what Jesus is teaching us to do because it is the way out.

I believe the message of Job is "life is not fair" and "I AM"

 

[Martin W.]

Great posts!

I've mentioned this before, but the confession booth comment reminded me.....

I liked the idea the 5 Christians came up with at Reed College (yes there were only five that year) - for their final project they had to set up a booth at a new-agey type fair put on by the senior class. So they decided to set up a confession booth to apologize for all the sins of the church over the past 2000 years. Students were in tears - it was very healing. It was repeated at the Saturday Market in Portland OR a year later with similar results. Once Christians take off all pretenses and really connect with people healing really happens and people's lives are impacted and changed.

Thank you for that example Aspen . I think that is what I was trying to say. There is something about confession that is both terrifying and tremendously beneficial. Pardon my choice of words but you get my point.

I am also a deep thinker at times. Often I have pondered the power of confession. Even the little confessions for little things done in a moment of anger to friends and neighbors. Later I will give some personal examples.

But for now the deep thinking part. I do not know if the following is true , but I have considered it. As follows:

-one of the meanings of the world "occult" is "things done in secret"
-the occult (and sin) can be very powerful
-we Christians are not occult of course
-we do everything wide open for the whole world to see
-Christians are an open book right ????
-ahem ... except for the few pet secrets we keep , ahem.
-lots of power for things done in secret.
-reveal those little secrets (confess) public-ally (ouch)
-the power of the little secret sin is disarmed
-I think that is the power of confession.
-it is like it releases the power (stranglehold) a bit of sin can have over us
-once the power of sin is released , (christian) life seems much more productive
-until the next tiny sin of course ... they always pop up (smile)

The few times I have confessed my errors (to people I do not care for) (and hated every minute of it) (and did it for my own reasons) (it was bugging me something terrible) .... I experienced tremendous relief and found it tremendously beneficial.

Confession does indeed have power and good results.

At least the couple of times I tried it
When I get real brave , I may even try it again

More later
Arnie M.
Terrified of confession.

 

[Martin W.]

Good words everyone...

I enjoyed what everyone shared...

It was funny after I wrote this I went through kind of a heavy attack...

Hi Robbie

I snipped a part of your post and quoted it above.

-I have those "attacks" too. I do not like the word "attack" but it sure feels like it at the time
-It feels like the angels go on vacation
-and the Lord follows them too.
-without them , I am weak as hell (my words)
-everything looks gloomy and depressing
-otherwise I am the toughest guy I know (my opinion)
-otherwise I am the strongest man of faith I know (my opinion)
-otherwise I am not afraid of anything (except maybe confessional) (smile)

-I have no idea why those things happen
-especially when I am being a productive (christian)
-I hate it when that happens
-the angels always come back
-they drag the Lord back too (smile)
-until the next time they go on vacation
-I always come out of it a bit better , a bit stronger, yet puzzled "why me Lord"

--------------------------------------


Sometimes certain things are encouraging and are like a rescue from the doldrums. I think the Lord has a hand in those things also.

Thank you Robbie , for your youth , your honesty , your enthusiasm , and your natural born talents. I feel that you have a gift for recognizing and capturing the beauty of creation on film. Please never change. I love your work. And yes you are a blessing. Thank you.

You have brought warmth to my desk in a cold Canadian winter.

It feels like the angels are back to work.

I love it when the angels are back at work. I think they were out checking the surf

If rugged guys were allowed to admit a bit of water was running while typing this ..... I probably would.

It tasted like salt water.
Beautiful picture. wow.

thanks again
Arnie.M.

 

[aspen]

Thank you for that example Aspen . I think that is what I was trying to say. There is something about confession that is both terrifying and tremendously beneficial. Pardon my choice of words but you get my point.

I am also a deep thinker at times. Often I have pondered the power of confession. Even the little confessions for little things done in a moment of anger to friends and neighbors. Later I will give some personal examples.

But for now the deep thinking part. I do not know if the following is true , but I have considered it. As follows:

-one of the meanings of the world "occult" is "things done in secret"
-the occult (and sin) can be very powerful
-we Christians are not occult of course
-we do everything wide open for the whole world to see
-Christians are an open book right ????
-ahem ... except for the few pet secrets we keep , ahem.
-lots of power for things done in secret.
-reveal those little secrets (confess) public-ally (ouch)
-the power of the little secret sin is disarmed
-I think that is the power of confession.
-it is like it releases the power (stranglehold) a bit of sin can have over us
-once the power of sin is released , (christian) life seems much more productive
-until the next tiny sin of course ... they always pop up (smile)

The few times I have confessed my errors (to people I do not care for) (and hated every minute of it) (and did it for my own reasons) (it was bugging me something terrible) .... I experienced tremendous relief and found it tremendously beneficial.

Confession does indeed have power and good results.

At least the couple of times I tried it
When I get real brave , I may even try it again

More later
Arnie M.
Terrified of confession.

I totally agree. Confession is about being vulnerable and trusting God and another person.

In the early church, people were required to confess their sins in front of the whole congregation! Talk about being vulnerable! Of course this did not last long because as soon as people started getting their reputations damaged, they would quit the church. Leaders decided to limit confession to a priest who represented the whole church.

The Oxford group was a church in the early 20th century that met in small groups and followed a 12 step plan to curb sinning. The step included admitting, surrendering, preparation for confession, group confession and helping others to succeed in the process. A man named Bill Wilson took that idea and applied it to alcoholism. AA has been the single most effective treatment for alcoholism, ever since it started in the 1930s.

Confession is a powerful thing - I think Protestants could really benefit from finding a trusted Christian confessor.

 

[Robbie]

@ Martin and Aspen... thanks for your guys responses... thanks Martin for your honesty about your struggles... I can really feel you guys trying to lift me up... that's sooooo good!!! A Kingdom United Stands!!!

@ Larry... I understand why you feel the way you do... your beliefs are your beliefs because they're what you believe is truth... so if I don't agree with you... you're obviously going to see me as not telling the truth... I accept this... but just so you know everything I spoke about Job was taken from me reading Job quite a few times... while I might not be in agreement with what you've been taught about Job... that's what I took from reading about Him...

As far as you saying that a lot of what I say is flat out not true... I as a person try to just agree with Jesus and live in the light about myself... I believe that as long as I'm in agreement with Jesus I'm in agreement with the truth because He is the truth... I understand that being in agreement with Jesus 100% is gonna have some religious people feeling like I'm not in agreement with the scriptures that were written before him... since the pharisees found reason to persecute Him based on the scriptures that were written before Him... I do pray often for Him to destroy any darkness in me or anything I might believe falsely... I think this is really healthy... while we don't want to get tossed back and forth by every wind of doctrine... we should always welcome the Lord to destroy and darkness in us while the morning star rises in our heart... the pharisees wouldn't allow this because Jesus didn't agree with their interpretation of the scriptures.

As far as Job I would never see myself even close to as good as that guy... but just so you know a little about me... from the time span of when I was about 8 till 14 my Mom lost two babies, my grandma and grandpa (who were the closest people in my lives because my Mom was an alcoholic) died 15 minutes apart... my grandma from cancer and my grandpa 15 minutes later from a heart attack... after that my Mom got addicted to heroin and one day her boyfriend came to our house shooting holes in the walls and was gonna shoot my Mom... I prayed to God to save her from him and he left and shot himself in the head... then my house burnt down two weeks before Christmas and the finally was after all that my Mom said she quit doing drugs and I came home and caught her slamming heroin and her new boyfriend smoking crack so I moved out on my own when I was 14... so while I'm sure that I'm a dirtbag compared to Job I do know what it's like to suffer and to have your whole life fall apart...

So maybe you shouldn't be judging people you've read a few posts from on a message board?

Hope this blesses you...