Australia bans same sex marriage.

[Groundzero]

Well, I'm not likely to do that. However, one needs to back up what they say or believe. In your case you gave a supposed 'positive' one-liner that said homosexuality being a choice is rubbish. Now, if anyone takes your word based on a comment not substantiated in any way whatever - in other words just a wild opinion - then they are as foolish as the person who made it. The same that I expect from others also applies to me, of course.


I see no text in scripture stating that homosexuality being a choice is rubbish. Nothing has changed simply because you mentioned the word 'scripture'. Funny thing, many Christians seem to believe that as long as they use the word 'scripture' they can basically say anything whether it be fact or fiction. So, you need to prove or retract.


Well, while I don't give the words of Paul any particular divinity (why do YOU, by the way?) his understanding of MANY things, including sexuality, would have been VERY limited. Therefore his opinions on such things would carry little weight or no weight at all for we of today. Simply because Paul's letters made it into the NT Canon of scripture - nothing to do with God but men - does not necessarily make Paul a mouth-piece for Jesus. Indeed, many Christians of today have given Paul the status of God/Jesus!

Be that as it may, the texts you present below are only partial and have been cherry-picked by you in this case but usually cherry picked in a similar way by other Christians and are therefore not representative of the whole picture. While I haven't yet learned on this forum to isolate certain parts of one's posts and respond to a specific piece as opposed to the entire paragraph (can this be done?) I have to say that the piece you present below has little or nothing to do with homosexuality per se just as it has nothing to do with heterosexuality per se. But it IS critical of both homosexual and heterosexual acts and other pagan practices that are affiliated with temple prostitution and idolatry. If you don't know this then I can't help your ignorance on this matter. I don't mind being corrected if I'm shown to be wrong - well, like most people I'd prefer NOT to be wrong - but I don't want to involve myself in a debate of who is right or wrong where the other person doesn't know what they're talking about from the outset. I realize that when I say, "those texts don't mean what you think they mean (or, more likely, have been TAUGHT to think what they mean)", I leave myself open to a barrage of retorts screaming that I'm pro-gay and twisting the scriptures for this purpose ...yadda, yadda, yadda. To that I say in advance, "Poppycock!" I have no agenda except to expose falsehoods where I see them that are used by Christians time and time again to demean other human beings. It really DOES sicken me that Christians have lost sight of the Gospel message and instead force militant and unnecessary pious viewpoints on the rest of the world! They don't seem to realize that THEY - and NOT those they LOVE to target - may well be the ones who Jesus tells, "Go away, I never knew you ..."


What Christian am I, you ask? Do I have to pass muster with you before I can use the term? As for you far from being convinced, I'm not here to convince you of anything.

Actually, Scripture calls it worse than rubbish. It calls it an abomination.

Your statement about Paul basically sums up who you are. A REAL Christian believes that the books of the Bible are inspired of God. And while the authors wrote in their own style, it was ALWAYS under the unction of the Holy Spirit. If you deny the validity of ONE book in the Bible, then you might as well throw out the rest. Why I should continue discussing any of this with you seems pointless now that you're made it clear. And for the record - I don't really care who said what in the Scripture. What I do know is, it was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and it's as potent today as it was back then.

When judgement falls, there will be some 'christians' who are on the wrong side of God, but let me assure you, that there won't be any sinners on the RIGHT side of God.
Why should I start screaming pro-homosexual? You've already made it more than clear that 1. you support their lifestyle. 2. you'd rather bag Christians (who while some may be doing things the wrong way, nevertheless are trying their best) and 3. you deny that Scripture is 100% God-breathed.

The last point is the cliché for me. I'm not interested in discussing 'sin' with someone who doesn't even believe in the authenticity of the very Law Book that defines what sin is. It's a catch-22.

And use the term 'Christian' all you like. It takes more than a title to save you.

 

[KCKID]

Actually, Scripture calls it worse than rubbish. It calls it an abomination.

Had any prawns (shrimp for our American friends) lately? Your use of the term 'abomination' for homosexuality when SO many trivial things that we do on a daily basis are 'abominations' to God is a pure act of deception. Not too many of us fall for the 'homosexuality is an abomination' line nowadays. By the way, there is a concept that you need to be made aware of. God is not human. God is a supernatural deity if we're to believe the Bible. Therefore God cannot have emotions and other such human attributes. Petty things will not make God mad. If things are 'an abomination' to God then this is merely a reflection of God as reported by the humans of the day who wrote about Him. God did NOT write the Bible!

Your statement about Paul basically sums up who you are. A REAL Christian believes that the books of the Bible are inspired of God. And while the authors wrote in their own style, it was ALWAYS under the unction of the Holy Spirit. If you deny the validity of ONE book in the Bible, then you might as well throw out the rest. Why I should continue discussing any of this with you seems pointless now that you're made it clear. And for the record - I don't really care who said what in the Scripture. What I do know is, it was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and it's as potent today as it was back then.

You don't KNOW that the Bible was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You believe the Bible to have been written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. My opinions about Paul are my own and I don't need anyone to tell me what opinions I'm allowed to have. I don't have a problem with Paul. I do, however, have a problem with those who misinterpret him. As for who is a REAL Christian ...well, there goes that rather arrogant catch-cry again ..."If you don't believe what I believe then you can't be a real Christian. I'm past that kind of judgmental rhetoric ZH, so don't waste your time on me with such silliness.

When judgement falls, there will be some 'christians' who are on the wrong side of God, but let me assure you, that there won't be any sinners on the RIGHT side of God.

Of course not. Whoever is 'on the RIGHT side of God', as you say, will have had their sins wiped clean by the blood of Jesus. Didn't you know that? That's what the Bible says, anyway. Try reading it. There will be no condemnation for those who accept Jesus since human sins will have been imputed to Him and will consequently be no more.

Why should I start screaming pro-homosexual? You've already made it more than clear that 1. you support their lifestyle. 2. you'd rather bag Christians (who while some may be doing things the wrong way, nevertheless are trying their best) and 3. you deny that Scripture is 100% God-breathed.

Where did I say that I supported the lifestyle of homosexuals? ...or the lifestyle of heterosexuals for that matter? What is a 'homosexual lifestyle' anyway? I think you'll find that their lives are about as mundane as heterosexuals, they get up in the morning, they go to work, they come home, they have some social time, then they go to bed. Press 'Repeat' for the following day. Their weekends might allow them more social time, the opportunity to partake in a hobby or interest, perhaps go to church, etc. etc. THAT is probably the lifestyle of a typical homosexual as well as a typical heterosexual. Sounds more boring than abominable!

Where have I been bagging Christians? I DO, however, tend to regard Christians in much the same way as did Ghandi. I realize that this is cliche but, like him, I too like the Christian Jesus but too many Christians are SO unlike their Christ. I've been totally upfront about that since day one and I've given my reasons why. That said, I believe that I've also mentioned that there ARE Christians that I do admire and am most inspired by them. Even within my own Church (SDA) that I've somewhat rejected in recent times there are some wonderful people that I could never in a million years 'bag'.

As for the Bible being 100% God-breathed ...how can I know that? Because my pastor tells me? Because people on a forum tell me? Because YOU tell me? You may not know this but the text that says that all scripture is God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16) is referring to the Torah and NOT the New Testament which did not exist at the time that statement was written. So, who told us that the New Testament is God-breathed? I'm not saying that the entire Bible is not God-breathed. It may well be. I'm merely asking how come YOU know that it is since YOU are the one chiding me. These days I don't simply believe something because someone tells me something is true. I prefer to have some kind of impirical back-up before I can commit myself to believing it. And, there is nothing wrong with seeking out such evidence about the authorship of the Bible. YOU seem to believe that questioning the Bible is a 'sin'.

The last point is the cliché for me. I'm not interested in discussing 'sin' with someone who doesn't even believe in the authenticity of the very Law Book that defines what sin is. It's a catch-22.

And use the term 'Christian' all you like. It takes more than a title to save you.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I'm not interested in your obsession with 'sin'. Don't include me in that obsession. If someone is 'of the world' - be they homosexual or homosexual - then what they might do that offends your Christian sensibilities has nothing to do with you. If someone is a professed Christian, then they are saved by the blood of Christ and their 'sins', past, present and future are covered by the saving grace of Jesus. You see, there is no one - and that includes YOU - who does not 'sin' in some form or another on a daily basis. None of us can help it, no matter how hard we try. Sure, we might 'sin' less than we used to but we still 'sin', nevertheless. Again ...THAT includes YOU. And yet, you obsess yourself with the perceived 'sins' of others who - if professed Christians - are as covered by the blood of Jesus as YOU are! Moreover, do yourself a favor and stop judging me and others - "it takes more than a title to save you" as above - or you TOO will be judged accordingly! If you're going to bandy around scriptures you also need to apply some to yourself.

 

[meshak]

What politicians do or the government do should not be Jesus' servants' concern.

This is what I mean that mainstream churches are minding other's business instead of doing their duty of being faithful to Jesus.

You guys shoule know that Jesus' says His followers are not of this world. He also says let the dead bury their own dead.

When are you going to actually pay attendtion what Jesus says? sheesh.

 

[Groundzero]

Had any prawns (shrimp for our American friends) lately? Your use of the term 'abomination' for homosexuality when SO many trivial things that we do on a daily basis are 'abominations' to God is a pure act of deception. Not too many of us fall for the 'homosexuality is an abomination' line nowadays. By the way, there is a concept that you need to be made aware of. God is not human. God is a supernatural deity if we're to believe the Bible. Therefore God cannot have emotions and other such human attributes. Petty things will not make God mad. If things are 'an abomination' to God then this is merely a reflection of God as reported by the humans of the day who wrote about Him. God did NOT write the Bible!


You don't KNOW that the Bible was written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. You believe the Bible to have been written by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. My opinions about Paul are my own and I don't need anyone to tell me what opinions I'm allowed to have. I don't have a problem with Paul. I do, however, have a problem with those who misinterpret him. As for who is a REAL Christian ...well, there goes that rather arrogant catch-cry again ..."If you don't believe what I believe then you can't be a real Christian. I'm past that kind of judgmental rhetoric ZH, so don't waste your time on me with such silliness.


Of course not. Whoever is 'on the RIGHT side of God', as you say, will have had their sins wiped clean by the blood of Jesus. Didn't you know that? That's what the Bible says, anyway. Try reading it. There will be no condemnation for those who accept Jesus since human sins will have been imputed to Him and will consequently be no more.


Where did I say that I supported the lifestyle of homosexuals? ...or the lifestyle of heterosexuals for that matter? What is a 'homosexual lifestyle' anyway? I think you'll find that their lives are about as mundane as heterosexuals, they get up in the morning, they go to work, they come home, they have some social time, then they go to bed. Press 'Repeat' for the following day. Their weekends might allow them more social time, the opportunity to partake in a hobby or interest, perhaps go to church, etc. etc. THAT is probably the lifestyle of a typical homosexual as well as a typical heterosexual. Sounds more boring than abominable!

Where have I been bagging Christians? I DO, however, tend to regard Christians in much the same way as did Ghandi. I realize that this is cliche but, like him, I too like the Christian Jesus but too many Christians are SO unlike their Christ. I've been totally upfront about that since day one and I've given my reasons why. That said, I believe that I've also mentioned that there ARE Christians that I do admire and am most inspired by them. Even within my own Church (SDA) that I've somewhat rejected in recent times there are some wonderful people that I could never in a million years 'bag'.

As for the Bible being 100% God-breathed ...how can I know that? Because my pastor tells me? Because people on a forum tell me? Because YOU tell me? You may not know this but the text that says that all scripture is God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16) is referring to the Torah and NOT the New Testament which did not exist at the time that statement was written. So, who told us that the New Testament is God-breathed? I'm not saying that the entire Bible is not God-breathed. It may well be. I'm merely asking how come YOU know that it is since YOU are the one chiding me. These days I don't simply believe something because someone tells me something is true. I prefer to have some kind of impirical back-up before I can commit myself to believing it. And, there is nothing wrong with seeking out such evidence about the authorship of the Bible. YOU seem to believe that questioning the Bible is a 'sin'.


I've said this before and I'll say it again. I'm not interested in your obsession with 'sin'. Don't include me in that obsession. If someone is 'of the world' - be they homosexual or homosexual - then what they might do that offends your Christian sensibilities has nothing to do with you. If someone is a professed Christian, then they are saved by the blood of Christ and their 'sins', past, present and future are covered by the saving grace of Jesus. You see, there is no one - and that includes YOU - who does not 'sin' in some form or another on a daily basis. None of us can help it, no matter how hard we try. Sure, we might 'sin' less than we used to but we still 'sin', nevertheless. Again ...THAT includes YOU. And yet, you obsess yourself with the perceived 'sins' of others who - if professed Christians - are as covered by the blood of Jesus as YOU are! Moreover, do yourself a favor and stop judging me and others - "it takes more than a title to save you" as above - or you TOO will be judged accordingly! If you're going to bandy around scriptures you also need to apply some to yourself.

I would reply to each of your 'points', but then I think, "Here I am, trying to discuss something that is based upon Scripture, with someone who doesn't even believe the authenticity of Scripture." So why the hell do I even bother???

 

[Selene]

Interesting post Selene.

I get tired of hearing 'Christians' especially, try and tell me that people are born with a homosexual orientation. That's a load of rubbish.

That's actually what the gay activists wants people to believe. They want us to believe that they were born that way, and there is no scientific evidence showing that. They are trying to fool people into believing that their protests is about equal rights. The truth that they are FORCING everyone to believe that homosexuality is NORMAL and to recognize same sex unions as a marriage.

For some people, homosexuality is a disorder just like pedophilia is a disorder. For many others, homosexuality is a choice. There is an organization called "Narth" (National Association for Research and Therapy for Homosexuality). This organization has members who consider themselves ex-gays.

 

[KCKID]

I would reply to each of your 'points', but then I think, "Here I am, trying to discuss something that is based upon Scripture, with someone who doesn't even believe the authenticity of Scripture." So why the hell do I even bother???

All you need to say is, "Your questions have got me stumped." I can handle it!

<sigh> ...I'm getting just as narcissistic as some of the rest of you.

Time for a reality check . . .

That's actually what the gay activists wants people to believe. They want us to believe that they were born that way, and there is no scientific evidence showing that. They are trying to fool people into believing that their protests is about equal rights. The truth that they are FORCING everyone to believe that homosexuality is NORMAL and to recognize same sex unions as a marriage.

They want 'US' to believe? Who the heck do you think you are ...? What you say above in the same typical ad nauseum 'if they are not like me then they are wrong' fashion has NOTHING to do with you. If I were gay I would not CARE whether my being gay was seen by you as being disordered, nature or nurture. There is MUCH ignorance surrounding this subject and what sickens me more than anything else is how this ignorance is being used to demean, dehumanize and to DEMONIZE other human beings.

For some people, homosexuality is a disorder just like pedophilia is a disorder. For many others, homosexuality is a choice. There is an organization called "Narth" (National Association for Research and Therapy for Homosexuality). This organization has members who consider themselves ex-gays.

So, are you actually saying here the opposite to what you said above ...that people ARE born homosexual but that this can be changed through therapy ...? Furthermore, are you also saying that those homosexuals who are NOT afflicted with a 'disorder' are actually deviant heterosexuals? This would mean that a person who has natural sexual desires for the opposite sex are somehow forcing themselves - for NO logical reason, mind - to counter this natural desire with a 'phony' desire for the same sex? Is this what you're saying? Or, would it be more honest of you to come right out and say that you have no idea what you're talking about ...?

Sorry, Selene, but I simply have to call a spade a spade.

 

[Selene]

All you need to say is, "Your questions have got me stumped." I can handle it!

<sigh> ...I'm getting just as narcissistic as some of the rest of you.

Time for a reality check . . .



They want 'US' to believe? Who the heck do you think you are ...? What you say above in the same typical ad nauseum 'if they are not like me then they are wrong' fashion has NOTHING to do with you. If I were gay I would not CARE whether my being gay was seen by you as being disordered, nature or nurture. There is MUCH ignorance surrounding this subject and what sickens me more than anything else is how this ignorance is being used to demean, dehumanize and to DEMONIZE other human beings.


So, are you actually saying here the opposite to what you said above ...that people ARE born homosexual but that this can be changed through therapy ...? Furthermore, are you also saying that those homosexuals who are NOT afflicted with a 'disorder' are actually deviant heterosexuals? This would mean that a person who has natural sexual desires for the opposite sex are somehow forcing themselves - for NO logical reason, mind - to counter this natural desire with a 'phony' desire for the same sex? Is this what you're saying? Or, would it be more honest of you to come right out and say that you have no idea what you're talking about ...?

Sorry, Selene, but I simply have to call a spade a spade.

I really don't care if a person is gay or not. What bothers me is when they come in and FORCE Christians including the Church to teach very young children that homosexuality is NORMAL. They are even demanding that the Christians schools teach that homosexuality is normal. The gay activists are targeting very young children in the elementary schools, and brainwashing them into thinking that homosexuality is NORMAL behavior. Christians should teach their children to love homosexuals and all sinners, but NEVER to approve of any sinful behavior. We are called to love everyone (who are all sinners.....and yes, the homsexuals are among the sinners), but we are not call to love the sin.

For some, homosexuality is a disorder....just like pedophilia is a disorder. Would you call pedophilia NORMAL?? Also, I never said that people were born homosexuals. I said it is a disorder. It is possible for some disorders to be corrected. And as I showed in the post, some people become homosexuals by choice.....such as the 70 year old grandmother who suddenly found that she's a lesbian AFTER visiting a gay and lesbian retreat.

 

[KCKID]

Selene: I really don't care if a person is gay or not.

KCKID: Well, clearly you do.

Sorry I have to post in this manner. Apparently it isn't possible to respond to portions of paragraphs. Oh well . . .

Selene: What bothers me is when they come in and FORCE Christians including the Church to teach very young children that homosexuality is NORMAL.

KCKID: Selene, educating children about homosexuality serves at least two purposes. Firstly, it does NOT promote homosexuality to children. What it DOES is it teaches children to not discriminate against people who are different to them. Secondly, and more importantly, it enables children who are perhaps already 'struggling' with homosexual tendencies to cope with these feelings. Please get your facts right. Here is a link you might be interested in. I hope it works: http://www.change.org/petitions/alabama-state-legislators-repeal-law-forcing-schools-to-teach-that-being-gay-is-criminal

Selene: They are even demanding that the Christians schools teach that homosexuality is normal.

KCKID: I think 'demanding' is your own word. Please, don't do that.

Selene: The gay activists are targeting very young children in the elementary schools, and brainwashing them into thinking that homosexuality is NORMAL behavior.

KCKID: AGAIN, you use the word 'brainwashing' in a manner that implies that gay people are bad people. Please don't do that. Now, if you are a heterosexual person and you say that you had no choice in your sexuality and that this, to you, is normal, then apply the same to those who are homosexual. That's the way it is.

Selene: Christians should teach their children to love homosexuals and all sinners, but NEVER to approve of any sinful behavior.

KCKID: That, of course, is Christian rhetoric. One cannot teach that 'Johnny' is to be loved but that his homosexual orientation is to be hated.

Selene: We are called to love everyone (who are all sinners.....and yes, the homsexuals are among the sinners), but we are not call to love the sin.

KCKID: How exactly does one love someone while rejecting who they are? That's just Christian rhetoric once again.

Selene: For some, homosexuality is a disorder

KCKID: Sexuality is a complex issue. That said, let us not pretend that we have it all figured out. And, if homosexuality IS a disorder then the last thing Christians should be doing is tossing religious bricks (scriptures) at them.

Selene: ....just like pedophilia is a disorder. Would you call pedophilia NORMAL??

KCKID: What does 'normal' mean, Serene? It's pretty subjective, don't you think? Do you feel similarly toward those who are deaf, blind, crippled, the autistic, those with 'Down's Syndrome', etc.? Are these things 'normal'? How do you explain them given your 'everything must be 'normal' mindset ...even capitalized? Pedophilia is a tragic condition that exists for both the perpetrator and the victim ...not that every pedophile molests children. Most don't, they are passive pedophiles. I bet you didn't know that! I'm possibly one of the only people in the world that feels compassion for the active pedophile. They struggle with a condition that they never asked for and they are hated by the majority of people. So sad. I wish that help was available for them instead of condemnation. But, that's me and I never apologize for being me. Anyway, what does pedophilia have to do with the topic of homosexuality or gay marriage? One is, sadly, a crime and the other is not. I've already established that people are born as 'individual entities' and not some 'Christian ideal' ...whatever that might mean.

Selene: Also, I never said that people were born homosexuals. I said it is a disorder.

KCKID: So what if it is? It still means that the person with this alleged 'disorder' are who they are. There is absolutely no reason to demonize them simply because you would prefer that they were heterosexual. Why is it so important to you that people be heterosexual?

Selene: It is possible for some disorders to be corrected.

KCKID: But not simply because you or anyone else demands that 'correction' take place because you would prefer that they be 'straight'.

Selene: And as I showed in the post, some people become homosexuals by choice.....such as the 70 year old grandmother who suddenly found that she's a lesbian AFTER visiting a gay and lesbian retreat.

KCKID: I don't know anything about that story but my life experience leads me to believe that she's been a homosexual for the past 55-some years!

 

[Selene]

Selene: I really don't care if a person is gay or not.

KCKID: Well, clearly you do.

Sorry I have to post in this manner. Apparently it isn't possible to respond to portions of paragraphs. Oh well . . .

Selene: What bothers me is when they come in and FORCE Christians including the Church to teach very young children that homosexuality is NORMAL.

KCKID: Selene, educating children about homosexuality serves at least two purposes. Firstly, it does NOT promote homosexuality to children. What it DOES is it teaches children to not discriminate against people who are different to them. Secondly, and more importantly, it enables children who are perhaps already 'struggling' with homosexual tendencies to cope with these feelings. Please get your facts right. Here is a link you might be interested in. I hope it works: http://www.change.org/petitions/alabama-state-legislators-repeal-law-forcing-schools-to-teach-that-being-gay-is-criminal

Selene: They are even demanding that the Christians schools teach that homosexuality is normal.

KCKID: I think 'demanding' is your own word. Please, don't do that.

Selene: The gay activists are targeting very young children in the elementary schools, and brainwashing them into thinking that homosexuality is NORMAL behavior.

KCKID: AGAIN, you use the word 'brainwashing' in a manner that implies that gay people are bad people. Please don't do that. Now, if you are a heterosexual person and you say that you had no choice in your sexuality and that this, to you, is normal, then apply the same to those who are homosexual. That's the way it is.

Selene: Christians should teach their children to love homosexuals and all sinners, but NEVER to approve of any sinful behavior.

KCKID: That, of course, is Christian rhetoric. One cannot teach that 'Johnny' is to be loved but that his homosexual orientation is to be hated.

Selene: We are called to love everyone (who are all sinners.....and yes, the homsexuals are among the sinners), but we are not call to love the sin.

KCKID: How exactly does one love someone while rejecting who they are? That's just Christian rhetoric once again.

Selene: For some, homosexuality is a disorder

KCKID: Sexuality is a complex issue. That said, let us not pretend that we have it all figured out. And, if homosexuality IS a disorder then the last thing Christians should be doing is tossing religious bricks (scriptures) at them.

Selene: ....just like pedophilia is a disorder. Would you call pedophilia NORMAL??

KCKID: What does 'normal' mean, Serene? It's pretty subjective, don't you think? Do you feel similarly toward those who are deaf, blind, crippled, the autistic, those with 'Down's Syndrome', etc.? Are these things 'normal'? How do you explain them given your 'everything must be 'normal' mindset ...even capitalized? Pedophilia is a tragic condition that exists for both the perpetrator and the victim ...not that every pedophile molests children. Most don't, they are passive pedophiles. I bet you didn't know that! I'm possibly one of the only people in the world that feels compassion for the active pedophile. They struggle with a condition that they never asked for and they are hated by the majority of people. So sad. I wish that help was available for them instead of condemnation. But, that's me and I never apologize for being me. Anyway, what does pedophilia have to do with the topic of homosexuality or gay marriage? One is, sadly, a crime and the other is not. I've already established that people are born as 'individual entities' and not some 'Christian ideal' ...whatever that might mean.

Selene: Also, I never said that people were born homosexuals. I said it is a disorder.

KCKID: So what if it is? It still means that the person with this alleged 'disorder' are who they are. There is absolutely no reason to demonize them simply because you would prefer that they were heterosexual. Why is it so important to you that people be heterosexual?

Selene: It is possible for some disorders to be corrected.

KCKID: But not simply because you or anyone else demands that 'correction' take place because you would prefer that they be 'straight'.

Selene: And as I showed in the post, some people become homosexuals by choice.....such as the 70 year old grandmother who suddenly found that she's a lesbian AFTER visiting a gay and lesbian retreat.

KCKID: I don't know anything about that story but my life experience leads me to believe that she's been a homosexual for the past 55-some years!

First of all, read carefully in what I post. I've always mentioned "gay activists." You say that your life experience leads you to believe that this 70 year old woman has been a homosexual for the past 55 years?? If she was actually born a homosexual, she did not know that until AFTER she visited a gay and lesbian retreat. It seems to me that she was influenced into believing she was homosexual. I have a friend whose 8 year old daughter came home after school and told her mother that she is gay. Her mother asked her daughter, "How do you know you are gay?" The little girl said that her friend told her that she is gay and the little girl believed it. So, she is gay.......because someone told her she is gay. She was influenced by a friend into believing that she is gay.

As for the gay activists, they have targeted elementary school children. After same sex marriage was passed in states like Massachusetts, it wasn't enough. The gay activists felt they had to go into the public schools and force children to accept homosexuality as normal. They are demanding and trying to force Christian schools to teach that homosexuality is normal despite the fact that it goes against their Christian values and religion. Below are articles about teaching homosexuality in the schools, and I provided the weblink below so you can read the full articles. America, wake up and protect your children.:

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Teach the pleasure of gay sex to children as young as five, say researchers
By STEVE DOUGHTY
UPDATED: 17:31 GMT, 20 January 2009

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Children as young as five should be taught to understand the pleasures of gay sex, according to leaders of a taxpayer-funded education project.
Heads of the project have set themselves a goal of 'creating primary classrooms where queer sexualities are affirmed and celebrated'.
The ambition was revealed in documents prepared for the No Outsiders project run by researchers from universities and backed with £600,000 of public money provided by the Economic and Social Research Council.

The stated purpose of the project - which is operating in 14 primary schools - is to stop bullying and prejudice aimed at homosexuals.

However, at a seminar at Exeter University tomorrow, supporters of the group will go beyond the anti-bullying agenda and discuss 'pleasure and desire in educational contexts'.

A document prepared for the seminar and couched in convoluted academic jargon says: 'The team is concerned to interrogate the desexualisation of children's bodies, the negation of pleasure and desire in educational contexts, and the tendency to shy away from discussion of (sexual) bodily activity in No Outsiders project work.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1056415/Teach-pleasure-gay-sex-children-young-say-researchers.html


Middle Schoolers Subjected To Graphic Gay Indoctrination

Shortly before Maine became one of the first states to approve gay marriage at the ballot box, a school district in the state was ahead of the curve with a presentation of graphic gay sex acts. Promoted as part of the school’s “Diversity Day”, 25 students in a middle school class were subjected to the filth by a group called Proud Rainbow Youth of Southern Maine.

The reprehensible display included advising students about safe homosexual sex acts and suggesting the use of saran wrap during oral sex if a dental dam is not available.

The mother of one 13-year-old upset by the presentation told the media that the PRYSM speaker also used profanity when spreading the gay-centric message.

“I’ve had to let him know that no matter what situation he gets in, my suggestion is not saran wrap. My suggestion is to abstain altogether,” she said.

School curricula regularly operates outside of parents’ influence, and most children are taught to respect and obey their teachers. It must be incredibly frustrating for the millions of students who hear one view at home and a starkly different opinion in class.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/middle-schoolers-subjected-to-graphic-gay-indoctrination

 

[aspen]

what is the pay off for choosing to be gay?

 

[Axehead]

300,000 people (the figure given by police) sure is a lot of people but it falls way short of the million people erroneously reported to have participated in the event by the organizers of the protest. Apparently this event was initially orchestrated by the Catholic Church so was/is not necessarily of great secular concern by the French. As said, 300,000 sure IS a lot of people but it's still only a miniscule of the more than 66 million people (the population of France) that DID NOT protest.

I think it is pretty common knowledge that the liberal media always reports much lesser numbers than the true number of people that come out for conservative issues. Conversely, for liberal, anti-god protests, I always see them doubling the numbers (at least).

 

[Rex]

what is the pay off for choosing to be gay?

I goggled your question
This is the first return

http://toddverbeek.com/diffangle/ChoosingToBeGay.html

selected quote

One of the reasons we rely so heavily on the born-this-way explanation
is to legitimize our call for civil rights. If we can convince people
that orientation is something we don't have any control over - like
race, ethnicity, handicap, or gender - maybe they'll finally stop
discriminating against us for it. After all, the assertion that we choose
to be gay is one that's brought against us in every gay civil rights
debate. We don't protect people for their lifestyle choices, we're
told.

 

[aspen]

I goggled your question
This is the first return

http://toddverbeek.com/diffangle/ChoosingToBeGay.html

selected quote

the opinion of the author does not address my question.

I agree with this selected quote:

"So what if I did choose to be gay? Don't I still have a right to
be gay, and to be open about it? And would I have any less right to a
job, employment, and decent treatment in public places because of it?"

 

[JackSafari]

the opinion of the author does not address my question.

I agree with this selected quote:

"So what if I did choose to be gay? Don't I still have a right to
be gay, and to be open about it? And would I have any less right to a
job, employment, and decent treatment in public places because of it?"

Well I know some Christians don't want gays teaching in schools because they teach children how to become gay, which is widely believed to be part of the gay secret agenda to increase the gay population through recruitment and brainwashing.

 

[Foreigner]

the opinion of the author does not address my question.

I agree with this selected quote:

"So what if I did choose to be gay? Don't I still have a right to
be gay, and to be open about it? And would I have any less right to a
job, employment, and decent treatment in public places because of it?"

-- The only way that statement should be taken seriously when someone says it is if they can substitute the word "gay" with the word "Christian" and mean it just as sincerely.



.

 

[JackSafari]

The US Supreme court just heard two cases on marriage.The State of California ban on gay marriage, and there federal policy that gay "married" couples can not receive federal benefits (ie Health insurance). In both cases, the US government has chosen not to defend those laws.

Its is expected that the Court will strict down both, but not go as far as making any sweeping changes as it did in the late 60s when the US Supreme court struct down all laws that banned interracial marriage as being immoral. Most of the interracial laws were based on religious values, so the court determined that such laws were prejudicial aimed at keeping races separated from each other for no other reason than religious values.

It is further speculated that other states will pass more strict anti-gay laws, forcing the US Court to address those laws, which like in the 60s, will trigger a sweeping ruling striking down all laws that specifically limit the rights of gays. Example, a gay partner has no legal right to inherit property if partner suddenly dies without a will. Or has no legal rights to visit his partner when in the hospital.

 

[KingJ]

the opinion of the author does not address my question.

I agree with this selected quote:

"So what if I did choose to be gay? Don't I still have a right to
be gay, and to be open about it? And would I have any less right to a
job, employment, and decent treatment in public places because of it?"

How can a Christian agree with that Aspen? I expect that of Jack or kckid, but not you .

-- The only way that statement should be taken seriously when someone says it is if they can substitute the word "gay" with the word "Christian" and mean it just as sincerely.

''Hell'' works well too ^_^.

"So what if I did choose to go to hell? Don't I still have a right to
be in hell, and to be open about it? And would I have any less right to a
job, employment, and decent treatment in public places because of it?"

I agree with the restrictions. Makes me feel so good. Who would want a murderer (who is open about it) teaching their kid at school?

 

[JackSafari]

How can a Christian agree with that Aspen?.



?

Sometimes Christians agree, sometimes they don't. Its normal and common.

Its better to discuss\debate what Aspen has stated rather than suggest he is not a Christian for stating his religious perspective.

 

[Foreigner]

There is really no need for debate.

"So what if I did choose to be gay? Don't I still have a right to
be gay, and to be open about it? And would I have any less right to a
job, employment, and decent treatment in public places because of it?"


-- If you can't substitute the word "gay" with the word "Christian" and mean it just as sincerely, there is no reason to take the statement seriously.

 

[aspen]

why can't you sustitute the terms? God chooses us and our sexuality is hardwired at an early age.

in both cases you have to choose to resist God and your sexuality, minute by minute