Australia bans same sex marriage.

[KingJ]

absolutely! If it it did not, I would cease to exist the second I stopped receiving grace. Also, if grace was dispensed based on my behavior or ideas, it would be dependent on my power, not God.

Pleasing God and His law should make you happy. Pleasing your flesh if it contravens God's law should leave you feeling ashamed. Live by the flesh you die. Put it to death by the spirit you will live Rom 8:13. It is for people with your way of thinking that Paul wrote Rom 6.

No gay person should be discriminated against in employment, housing, or education. I know of a couple of gay teachers in my school, and they do not teach children to be gay. They teach that everyone of all races, gender, religion, and nationalities should be treated as equal. They don't get into homosexuality or heterosexuality. Like everyone else, they should be treated equally, and like everyone else, they should follow the marriage restrictions.

Of course they do. Children are very observant.

 

[JackSafari]

Of course they do. Children are very observant.

Selene, here is example of one Christian who fully beliefs that homosexuals teach\brainwash children to become homosexuals. There are others who share his belief and I would conclude want laws that prevent homosexuals from having contact with children, therefor it would be against the law for them to have children of their own (ie adoption), or be teachers, coaches, daycare, or any other profession that works with children.

 

[KingJ]

Selene, here is example of one Christian who fully beliefs that homosexuals teach\brainwash children to become homosexuals. There are others who share his belief and I would conclude want laws that prevent homosexuals from having contact with children, therefor it would be against the law for them to have children of their own (ie adoption), or be teachers, coaches, daycare, or any other profession that works with children.

Why don't you just come out and say you are not a Christian.

 

[JackSafari]

^^^.....I have been a Christian all my life, coming from a family for Christians going back many generations. A several generations back (150 years ago), my Christian ancestors bought\sold slaves for a living. Including the buying\selling of children away from their slave parents. I can only imagine how heart breaking the would be for both the parents and child to be separated, never seeing each other again (in this life). Clearly not a proud moment in my family's history, but at that time they felt the bible supported slavery, went to a Christian church where slavery was fully supported, there was no moral conflict because slaves were personal property, no different than the cattle on the ranch. Slaves had no feelings worth being concerned about, they weren't viewed as people.

 

[Groundzero]

I like what you wrote, it reasonable and expects people to live by laws, not the moral expectations others.

A few years ago a Fundamentalist Christian organization sued a local school district for not revealing the sexual orientation of all teachers so that parents could make sure their children did not come in contact with LGBT people. The basis of the lawsuit was that parents had the right to prevent their children coming into contact with LGBTs for religious reasons, and they quoted the bible in their lawsuit to show there was unquestionable evidence that God did not want children to come in contact with LGBT individuals. The Christian organization lost the law suit because it would be sexual discrimination to require teachers to reveal their sexual orientation. Currently school districts do not tract the sexual orientation of teachers, thus they can't reveal information they do not have. Its also unlikely they would reveal that information if it were known for any teacher. Such as, if a parent asks "Is that teacher a heterosexual?" the school district would not reveal the answer even if known.



Christians disagree on what is moral and immoral as well. Morality is often the most debated topic of them all.

Fundamentalist Christians have some very strict moral values. Such as women not wearing a long dress is considered to be showing signs of (Sexual) immorality from the view point of Fundamentalist Christians. That is their religious belief, which is fine for those who make it their personal choice, but of course they feel their relgious beliefs IS the unquestionable word of God, and their standards applies to you, me, and everyone else because they belief God is a Fundamentalist God and he demands extremely high standards of personal conduct, and any signs of sexuality goes against God, thus girls\women are expected to hide their sexuality as all times because sexuality is a very horrible more crime against God. Some even expect that sex must only occur in dark bedroom where the husband and wife never see each other nude, for them to see each other nude even during sex, would be a sin.

Forget about what 'Christianity' teaches. Look at what it's based upon: the Bible. If the Bible doesn't support it, they shouldn't be teaching it and vice versa.

 

[JackSafari]

Forget about what 'Christianity' teaches. Look at what it's based upon: the Bible. If the Bible doesn't support it, they shouldn't be teaching it and vice versa.

My experience has been that if a Christian person, group, or churches has a specific belief, they are able to find support for their belief in The Scriptures.

I used slavery as one basic example of where in the past it was commonly accepted (at that time) that slavery was justified. Now 150 years later, slavery is completed rejected. Even today, White separatists Christian churches use the bible the support their belief that races should not socially associate with each other, and from their perspective they are 100% correct.

 

[Selene]

Selene, here is example of one Christian who fully beliefs that homosexuals teach\brainwash children to become homosexuals. There are others who share his belief and I would conclude want laws that prevent homosexuals from having contact with children, therefor it would be against the law for them to have children of their own (ie adoption), or be teachers, coaches, daycare, or any other profession that works with children.

I don't see any problems with gay people being teachers, coaches, or being in day care centers. They have a right to equal employment, and their homosexuality should have nothing to do with the job. Every job has a job description, and that is what the person should follow. A gay person should simply follow their job description.....and there is nothing in their job description that says anything about brainwashing children into becoming homosexuals. If they don't follow their job description, then they should be fired just like everyone else who don't follow their job description.

Also, there are homosexuals who already have children of their own. I know of a lesbian who was married and had children in her marriage with her husband. But it's one of those things where she suddenly found herself to be a lesbian, so she divorced her husband and went to live her life as a lesbian. The law should not prevent her from raising her own children or even from having contact with her own children. They are, after all, her children. Adoption, however, is another story. The adoption agency should find loving homes for these children that include both a mother and a father. Single parents and/or homosexual parents should not even be considered. That is my opinion on adoption.

 

[KCKID]

Why don't you just come out and say you are not a Christian.

Based on the thoughts expressed by JS, "I" and I'm sure more than a few visitors to the forum would feel that his posts are more Christian-like than are yours, KJ. Christians such as yourself leave me feeling cold and flat and unenthusiastic about a religious belief that should have people jumping for joy. If I came across a church full of KJs I would be out of that place as fast as my legs would allow me.

Forget about what 'Christianity' teaches. Look at what it's based upon: the Bible. If the Bible doesn't support it, they shouldn't be teaching it and vice versa.

Such rhetorical nonsense but, nevertheless, typical. The Bible - OT anyway - supports much death and destruction and hatred. Your Bible=Jesus theology is where you and others have got it backwards. You will never be able to reconcile the Jesus=heart theology as long as you use the Bible to speak for you. It's unbiblical to state or to imply that the way to the Father comes through the Bible!

Pleasing God and His law should make you happy.
Pleasing your flesh if it contravens God's law should leave you feeling ashamed. Live by the flesh you die. Put it to death by the spirit you will live Rom 8:13. It is for people with your way of thinking that Paul wrote Rom 6.

Pleasing God and His law should make you happy, you say so smugly. This is one of those pieces of Christian rhetoric that make me want to tear my hair out. Precisely WHICH of God's laws are we to keep and please God and be happy about, KJ? There are hundreds of them and many of them are horrible, such as executing disobedient children, young girls that are not virgins, those who violate the Sabbath, etc. etc. "I" personally don't please God with regard to most of His laws because I don't keep them for reasons that they DON'T make me happy! What laws are we talking about KJ? Why don't you just admit that you haven't got a clue ...?

I'm sure that we've all felt ashamed about something, KJ. We're humans. But again, do you wear two convenient pairs of lenses - one that sees and the other that is blind - when it comes to what God approves of and disapproves of? As for your, "It is for people with your way of thinking that Paul wrote Romans 6" and targetting a specific person with that text is just about the worst kind of Christian preaching that I've ever come across. Your brand of Christianity is, to my way of thinking, certainly found to be wanting. And YOU question other people's 'Christianity' . . .

-- Should someone who does not believe what God Himself has said in His Word really call himself a Christian?

Here's an easy one for you, Foreigner. What is God's word?

 

[JackSafari]

I don't see any problems with gay people being teachers, coaches, or being in day care centers. They have a right to equal employment, and their homosexuality should have nothing to do with the job. Every job has a job description, and that is what the person should follow. A gay person should simply follow their job description.....and there is nothing in their job description that says anything about brainwashing children into becoming homosexuals. If they don't follow their job description, then they should be fired just like everyone else who don't follow their job description.

Also, there are homosexuals who already have children of their own. I know of a lesbian who was married and had children in her marriage with her husband. But it's one of those things where she suddenly found herself to be a lesbian, so she divorced her husband and went to live her life as a lesbian. The law should not prevent her from raising her own children or even from having contact with her own children. They are, after all, her children. Adoption, however, is another story. The adoption agency should find loving homes for these children that include both a mother and a father. Single parents and/or homosexual parents should not even be considered. That is my opinion on adoption.

I think most of what you wrote is reasonable.

On the issue of adoption and\or as to who legally is allowed to raise children, it really can't be based on who is BEST qualified because it could be argued that Christians are the better qualified over non-Christians (ie other religions) or wealthy people are better qualified. The determination is, as it should be, if there are reasons to disqualify a person (ie mental illness, drug abuse, domestic abuse). There are some who believe homosexuality is reason to disqualify a person to be a parent. But if homosexuality is not reason to disqualify, then then a homosexual couple can't be denied the ability to adopt and\or have a surrogate mother based on their sexual orientation.

 

[aspen]

homosexual couples are a much better option than our broken fostercare system.

 

[JackSafari]

homosexual couples are a much better option than our broken fostercare system.

And its always better for a couple to plan\want to have children than have children be born to parents who did not want to have children, but weren't properly using contraception.

In the past I have semi-joked that nobody should be allowed to have children until they are 25, and have gotten a parenting license by taking parenting classes and passing an very difficult exam. Basically making it earned privileged to have children rather than just a result of sex. Practically every adult can have sex, by not everyone can be good parents..... I know what I just suggested will never be a reality, nor should it be, but there are far too many children are born into family situations that are not ready to have children, and that just not good for those children.

 

[Rex]

Well then it must be time for a gay parade to show the maturity and responsible attributes of the gay community LOL
Goggle search gay parade pics and see what you get.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Gay+parades+pics&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=bQu&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=gFlrUfGoMsW52AWSqICwDA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1348&bih=647

Here's the link to the photo card "post card from hell kitchen"
http://hellskitchennyc.blogspot.com/2010/06/40th-anniversary-nyc-gay-pride-2010.html

 

[JackSafari]

Ba


Here's an easy one for you, Foreigner. What is God's word?

This one example of how Christians approach being a Christian differently.

Some practice being a Christian by considering what a person believes is far more important than what a person does, so they focus on their interpretation of the bible with the idea that upon death, God evaluates their beliefs and is not concerned with their behavior as long as they have the proper beliefs. God does not want Christians to question, think, or evaluate, just accept the Word of God.

Other Christians take a different approach and focus on behavior, being Christ like, as much as each Christian can, and are not as concerned with making sure their beliefs are perfectly aligned with every verse of the bible. They believe upon death God does not ask them what they belief to be true\untrue, God evaluates their Christian behavior toward others.

 

[Rex]

And still other just never get the lights turned on


They struggle and wrestle with the word and its concepts, but when you walk in the light understanding is not some game that can only be known by PhD's but then again thats what some think holds the answers. Those that study or those that do---->>> the fruit of knowing is doing.

 

[JackSafari]

Interesting post Selene.

I get tired of hearing 'Christians' especially, try and tell me that people are born with a homosexual orientation. That's a load of rubbish.

What do you believe causes about 10% of world population to be homosexual?

 

[Selene]

I think most of what you wrote is reasonable.

On the issue of adoption and\or as to who legally is allowed to raise children, it really can't be based on who is BEST qualified because it could be argued that Christians are the better qualified over non-Christians (ie other religions) or wealthy people are better qualified. The determination is, as it should be, if there are reasons to disqualify a person (ie mental illness, drug abuse, domestic abuse). There are some who believe homosexuality is reason to disqualify a person to be a parent. But if homosexuality is not reason to disqualify, then then a homosexual couple can't be denied the ability to adopt and\or have a surrogate mother based on their sexual orientation.

The focus and interest should be on the child, not the people adopting the child. It is right for adoption agencies to look for what is best for the child. In my opinion, a loving family consisting of both mother and father would be in the best interest of the child.

 

[Foreigner]

What do you believe causes about 10% of world population to be homosexual?

-- The actual percentage is less than half that.

http://www.autostraddle.com/gay-population-1-point-7-percent-is-just-a-number-84389/

And please don't waste anyone's time by trying to refute that by using Kinsey. A simple check shows the glowing flaws of his work.


As far as why people are gay, if you believe they were "born that way" then you have to acknowedge that for that to be the outcome, someting somewhere had to have gone wrong. It isn't like someone being born left handed. (I don't know any scripture condemning left handers as an abomination to God, although the nuns I had in school had a major issue with them.)

As with someone who is born deaf or blind or prone to seizures or with a cleft palate, someone 'born gay' would be because something somewhere went wrong along the way. To say otherwise would be to say that God intended for the homosexuality that He abhors to actually be His desire.

One of the indicators to that truth is the health issues that are ravaging those that live that lifestyle. Gay men have a life expectancy of 20 years less than heterosexuals.
And HIV is only one reason for that:
http://www.wpaag.org/Homosexuals%20and%20Same%20Sex%20Marriage.htm
http://www.narth.com/menus/medical.html <------ especially telling.

As far as 'discovering' you are gay later in life, I think of a person in my church. He was abused when young and had difficulties well into college. He said he never felt so welcomed and 'unjudged' as when he was with the gay community. He said, "It was the first place that he ever felt accepted for who I was, without judgment or restriction.
"I felt then that I MUST be gay."

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Should homosexuals be allowed to adopt, be school teachers, have contact with children? What limitations should be placed on them for be homosexual?

All limitations. Moreover all should be put in prison, until it is determined they have changed their EVIL ways.

The focus and interest should be on the child, not the people adopting the child. It is right for adoption agencies to look for what is best for the child. In my opinion, a loving family consisting of both mother and father would be in the best interest of the child.

LOL! Nice one. Subtle but not so subtle, if you get what I mean.

What do you believe causes about 10% of world population to be homosexual?

SIN!​

​

Perverted at that.​

homosexual couples are a much better option than our broken fostercare system.

homosexual couples are a much better option than our broken fostercare system.

Says WHO?

 

[JackSafari]

The focus and interest should be on the child, not the people adopting the child. It is right for adoption agencies to look for what is best for the child. In my opinion, a loving family consisting of both mother and father would be in the best interest of the child.

I won't argue that the best interest of the child is the highest priority, it just a matter of how to evaluate the couple. Hate to see that couples are ranked by their wealth no matter how long they have been waiting, and the rich always get higher priority over others with less wealth who have been trying to adopt for years, but otherwise are just as qualified. I just can't see how a homosexual couple is unqualified the thus NEVER allowed to adopt based solely on their sexual orientation. It would be no different that saying a mixed raced couple is unqualified to adopt because they are a mixed race couple.

--
As far as why people are gay, if you believe they were "born that way" then you have to acknowedge that for that to be the outcome, someting somewhere had to have gone wrong. It isn't like someone being born left handed. (I don't know any scripture condemning left handers as an abomination to God, although the nuns I had in school had a major issue with them.)."

Yes, medical research may ultimately determine homosexuality is caused by some kind genetic problem, which they may, or may, or may not be able to correct. Most genetic problems can't be corrected, they simply can be detected and explained.

 

[KingJ]

Based on the thoughts expressed by JS, "I" and I'm sure more than a few visitors to the forum would feel that his posts are more Christian-like than are yours, KJ. Christians such as yourself leave me feeling cold and flat and unenthusiastic about a religious belief that should have people jumping for joy. If I came across a church full of KJs I would be out of that place as fast as my legs would allow me.

Guess you won't like heaven much either.

For the millionth time: 1 Cor 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

I will run out of your church too . If heaven is full of the likes of you and JS, then your idea heaven is mine of hell.

Pleasing God and His law should make you happy, you say so smugly. This is one of those pieces of Christian rhetoric that make me want to tear my hair out. Precisely WHICH of God's laws are we to keep and please God and be happy about, KJ? There are hundreds of them and many of them are horrible, such as executing disobedient children, young girls that are not virgins, those who violate the Sabbath, etc. etc. "I" personally don't please God with regard to most of His laws because I don't keep them for reasons that they DON'T make me happy! What laws are we talking about KJ? Why don't you just admit that you haven't got a clue ...?

You assume the council of Jewish elders that would judge a kid worthy of death were dumb? or do you assume just any disobedient kid was put to death? As for laws, is it not obvious that all of the law pleased God? As NT Christians we obey all the law but use our brain / heart to see God's reasoning behind the law....as they are now written on our hearts..example...if watching porn before marriage hurt my wife, it will do likewise in marriage, but not result in divorce as before would result in being dumped...consistent adultery however, just like consistent homosexuality for a Christian = divorce. Laws like the Sabbath require discernment, but moral laws, none! It really is not rocket science. All Christians are to work out their salvation in fear and trembling before God. I would really like to know how exactly you justify your approval of homosexuality before God? As knowing the scriptures you do, you have no excuse! naughty naughty!

You know the truth but are quoting verses without context. Hardly trying to bat for God and Him being good OT and NT. Raising popular devilish / atheist arguments and you wonder why I call you a false teacher....

As for your, "It is for people with your way of thinking that Paul wrote Romans 6" and targetting a specific person with that text is just about the worst kind of Christian preaching that I've ever come across. Your brand of Christianity is, to my way of thinking, certainly found to be wanting. And YOU question other people's 'Christianity' . . .

I think this verse that was written for you is worse, Luke 17:2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.

If you know the truth (homosexuals will not be in heaven) but continue to teach that it is fine and blur it with carnal reasoning (what laws? there are so many, I am not happy, religion must make me happy, OT God is bad), you better take your own life before God get's hold of you!

If I was a Christian, stumbling as you are, I would accept this rebuke and deal with it. Judge yourself harshly kckid. I do love you and JS, but hate what you are teaching in the name of Christianity. Either confess that you are not a Christian or accept rebuke and judge yourself extremely harshly before God tonight.