I take it that "here" is America? Since this forum has members from several different countries participating it probably should not be assumed that America is the center of the universe . . .1peterlight said:
Australia bans same sex marriage.
- Thread starter Selene
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Banning same-sex marriage is a good thing. Whatever agenda she may have....I'm sure that will come out in time.ZebraHug said:
The problem (for some of us) with Julia perhaps getting axed in September is that we get Tony in her place. :unsure:Rach said:
For whom? I'm just not getting this at all. We see all kinds of people marrying one another all the time ...have you never wondered "What the heck does she/he see in him/her"? Who one marries would rarely if ever impact on anyone else. IF banning gay marriage is 'a good thing' for religious reasons then we leave it to God to determine whether or not it is/was a good or a bad thing. WE - as people - have absolutely NO RIGHT to dictate to another WHO they should love or/and who they wish to commit themselves to ...!Selene said:
Like everything else, marriage comes with restrictions. Those restrictions include 1) a person cannot marry someone of close relations such as a brother or sister, 2) a person cannot marry more than one person, 3) a person cannot marry someone of the same sex, and 4) a person cannot marry someone who is a child or minor. Those are the restrictions, and these restrictions apply to everyone - male or female. This is not about equal rights. This is about removing a restriction. When you remove one restriction, then the polygamists will come out and demand that they marry more than one person. And they will use the same tactics that the gay activists have been using.KCKID said:
And yes, it does affect everyone. Haven't you notice that in places like Massachusetts where same sex marriages are allowed, the gay activists are now going into the schools educating very young children that homosexuality is not a sin, but a normal thing.
Who made marriage? God. And as God's people, we must hold up his standards. No matter what people say, I will NEVER bow and accept homosexual marriage, homosexual activity, or anything that defies God's supreme authority. If God's people don't get the guts to stand up in the gaps in the hedge, we will be lost with everyone else as well.KCKID said:
Selene said:
I don't know why you bring polygny into this. It has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Don't create boundaries that God never instituted. And never remove boundaries that God DID institute.
I generally don't call people names; however, in this case I'll make an exception. The guy is a door knob. Just MY personal opinion, of course. While I realize that we have an adversarial political system here in Australia I've found it sickening over the months how Abbott has remained vocally - and how! - negative on EVERY Gillard policy simply because he's 'playing the political game.' ALL policies of the government can't be bad, whether one is on the opposition team or not, but Tony is incapable of anything other than slamming the government at every opportunity for his own ambitious purposes. If Malcolm Turnbull - a guy with CLASS as well as having brains - was the leader of the opposition as he would have been if not previously knifed I wouldn't hesitate casting my vote in the direction of the Liberal Party in September ...even though I would normally support Labor. And yes, it IS important as to WHO is the leader of the party we vote for. I could not vote for Tony Abbott in a fit. Having said that, the Gillard government hasn't negatively affected me in the slightest. I really have no idea why she is so unpopular according to polls. Then again, who ARE the people involved in these polls who are so up and down with their fickle opinions? Polls, unfortunately, can influence the gullible and/or the disinterested. Seems like everyone wants to back a winner and polls appear to dictate who the potential winners are. I don't know about gay marriage being banned but if I had my way such polls would most certainly be banned.ZebraHug said:
God created one woman for Adam. He did not create more than one woman for Adam. And all a person needed is an open gate. The gay activists got their open gate when they intimidated the APA in taking out homosexuality from their list of disorders. If homosexuality was still on that list of disorders, the Supreme Court would not need to decide same sex marriage. The open gate for the polygamists is for the gay activists to win their case on same sex marriage.ZebraHug said:
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
And Nero fiddled while Rome burned......
And Politicians and Christians worry about who other people diddle, while wars rage over who gets to exploit and dominate humanity.
What a profound waste of time -all for the purpose of distracting ourselves from practicing our sanctification, by loving our neighbors.
Nothing new under the sun.......
Actually, Selene - people with mental illness are allowed to marry.
And Politicians and Christians worry about who other people diddle, while wars rage over who gets to exploit and dominate humanity.
What a profound waste of time -all for the purpose of distracting ourselves from practicing our sanctification, by loving our neighbors.
Nothing new under the sun.......
Actually, Selene - people with mental illness are allowed to marry.
We are called to love homosexuals, but that does not mean to give them same sex marriage. If we truly love them, we would stand against same sex marriage because same sex marriage is the same thing as approving the sin of homosexuality. God loves the sinner but He did not approve of our sins.aspen2 said:
God will judge those who committed the acts of homosexuality, but how do you think He will judge those who approve of sin? Are we not supposed to disapprove all sins?
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
I do not approve or disapprove of homosexuality - the Bible appears to say that God has declared it to be a sin so as a Christian I have to obey. When it comes to nonbelievers, i have no opinion at all about it. Why should nonbelievers be forced to obey Christian moral standards? That is like being forced to follow the laws of a foreign country.
Well, once gay marriage becomes legal we can strike out your number 3 restriction. I'm not sure why you included that one since it is NOT a restriction in a growing number of areas. IF, however, you're making this a religious issue, let's see ...obviously 'God approved' incest took place in the Bible so we can strike number 1 also. Polygamy was evidently 'okay' with God also so we can strike out number 2. Remember, one could have as many wives as they could afford since females were the property of the male. Once again, they were PROPERTY of the male as was his home, his man/maid servants, his animals, etc. etc.! In their zeal to oppose gay marriage most Christians forget that God - according to scripture - made the woman as a 'helper' for man. They forget that incest and polygamy were also either approved of or overlooked by God. As for your number 4, there appears to be no age restrictions in the Bible at all relative to when a girl could or did get married. It seems that once she reached child bearing age (still a minor by our standards) she could marry a 60 year-old man if such a man was chosen by her or chosen for her. So, I'm not sure where your list of 'marriage restrictions' is supported from a religious perspective.Selene said:
Whoever goes into a school and talks to a child about 'sin' PERIOD should be thrown out! So should someone who goes into a school and preaches fear tactics to kids that unless they repent of these 'sins' they will be sentenced by God to an eternity in hell of torment and torture!Selene said:
Homosexuality IS a 'normal thing' to a homosexual and I seriously doubt that those who have been chosen to educate children would ever use the religious term 'sin' to begin with. What they probably DO teach is that people are to be valued WHATEVER their wrapping - color, ethnicity, religion, sexual persuasion, etc. People already know what is right and what is wrong and much of this revolves around how one treats their neighbor. The Bible should only be used to reinforce the obvious 'love thy neighbor' message. If pointing out the perceived 'sins' of another is all one can use the Bible for then they should close it up and put it away.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
"We are called to love homosexuals, but that does not mean to give them same sex marriage" . . .I'm sorry, Selene, but the arrogance (though I realize that it's unintentional) of that statement is quite unbelievable! As has already been pointed out, your religious views on this subject (yes, I realize that this is a Christian forum) have little to no influence on the secular world. You are certainly entitled to your opinions or/and religious beliefs but that does not give you the authority to give the yay or the nay as to who wishes to marry. And yet, in the sentence highlighted you are implying that you (as a Christian) have the authority to permit or not permit those who can marry and those who cannot marry based on your religious beliefs. Again, on this forum, yes, your religious beliefs have merit because this is a Christian forum. But, in the secular world they do not. You also need to understand that two people who fall in love and wish to commit their lives to one another, 1. probably don't care what Christians might say about their relationship being a sin, and 2. don't see how their loving one another can possibly BE a sin anyway. To an increasing number of people the anti-gay marriage message spouted by Christians for NO OTHER REASON than "God says" is fast losing impact. This is not to mention, of course, that the Bible scholar not bound within the confines of religious dogma realizes that 'God' never said any such thing . . .Selene said:
I realize how bred into Christians this has become but I personally cringe at the average Christian's preocupation with 'sin' to the exclusion of the 'love' message of the Gospel. It's an arrogance beyond belief whenever a Christian talks down to another person with terms such as the, "I hate the sin but love the sinner" cliche as though they themselves have attained the perfect status of Jesus and therefore CAN talk down to another. The same is true whenever masses of scriptures are presented on forums such as this for the SOLE PURPOSE of demeaning someone else. It indicates - wrongly! - that 'the presenter' adheres to all of these scriptures him/herself and therefore has the divine authority to demean another.
Selene, it is not your task to concern yourself with who will be judged and who will not. It's your 'task' to accept your gay neighbors with the same love that you would expect to receive from your neighbor. Why is this SUCH a difficult message to get through . . .?
Aren't several wives or concubines the definition of a harem?aspen2 said:
And here is just one reason why Australia is going downhill. We support a government who doesn't know what the heck they are doing, and the people love them for it. Julia Gillard is a POM!! She doesn't know anymore about economy then Rudd did. And they both are burying the country. Who gives a damn about marriage? They're suppose to be making a stronger country!! And people like you just look at them for their outside value. I don't really give a damn about what they do or think, as long as they run the country, but as I've noted and learned, outside of God's principles, EVERY nation will flounder and fall. Australia has been blessed with a history of almost complete peace. That's going to change, and I hate to think how most of 'Australians' are going to cope.KCKID said:
God created a helper for Adam. Before doing so God sought out such a helper from the animals that He'd created. None appeared to be suitable. So, God took a rib from Adam and formed another being. God created one woman because one woman was all that was required to be Adam's helper. Remember, Adam was just hanging around a garden themed paradise at the time so he probably would not have needed too much help to maintain the property.Selene said:
I seriously doubt that a scientific and professional organization such as the American Psychology Association would have been so influenced by homosexuals that they would have resorted to unscientific and unprofessional tactics. That's quite absurd. By the way, would you personally prefer that homosexuality be seen as a disorder as opposed to 'normal'? It seems so. If so, why? Moreover, IF homosexuality IS a disorder then why do so many Christians say that it's a choice? It's either normal or a disorder or a choice ...which is it? As has already been pointed out to you, those with other 'disorders' are allowed to marry so why would people with the 'disorder of homosexuality' be refused the right to marry by the Supreme Court? Why would YOU prefer that people with disorders not marry? So many questions . . .
Incidentally, God seemed to wink at polygamy, So, why would polygamy be such a big deal to you even if the polygamists were to push for the acceptance of polygamy?
I do agree with you that, as in the U.S., the leader of the country should be a born national of that country. I always thought that to be the case here too but apparently I was wrong. That said, Tony Abbott was ALSO born in England ...albeit to Australian parents. Where have all the Australian pollies with leadership qualities gone ...? That said, we should not be judging someone's leadership qualities or lack of based on where they were born.ZebraHug said:
As for this government not knowing what they are doing ...I don't agree. However, this can be said for any government that has been in power for a number of years. People are fickle and become bored and dissatisfied with their leaders very quickly, especially when negative polls, the opinions of nameless, faceless people, are directing their thinking. When the world was falling apart during the financial crisis this government pulled Australia through without too many negative effects. It's had the guts to impliment a carbon tax in an effort to counter global warming while the leader of the opposition ignorantly referred to gw as a load of "b---sh--t". Interest rates are down to an almost all-time low. The same is true for unemployment. What a terrible government this is!
Making a country strong is not simply up to the government but also requires the loyal participation of its people. Australians will generally ridicule and insult and tear down their leaders at every given opportunity ...usually egged on by the popular media and the arrogant radio jocks. If a well intentioned government policy or program might fail (such as the pink-batts installation program) the media - and therefore the general public - will attack the leaders like a pack of rabid dogs. And yet, American TV celebrities such as Oprah and, more recently, Ellen DeGeneres are fawned over by many thousands of these same Australians as though they are angels sent from heaven. As for Australia being a nation blessed with a history of almost perfect peace ...tell that to the indigenous people of this country. I could go on but this is already a derail from the topic at hand.
By the way, those who give a damn about marriage are those that are being denied marriage ...! Would YOU not jump up and down if others were dictating to you who you can and cannot, should and should not marry?
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