Balancing Justification and Eternal Life By Faith Alone vs By Works of Faith

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FaithWillDo

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Actually, I am merely limiting the discussion to the Scriptures--nowhere does the NT teach "early rain" and "latter rain" ideas.

I just want to discuss the words of the NT. Those words are plenty difficult to understand, as Peter says, so I'm not going to add to that difficulty by importing additional ideas (eg, "early rain" and "latter rain") to the NT.
Dear GracePeace,
If you had bothered to read my posts, you would see where I presented where James teaches a whole chapter on the Early and Latter Rain subject. Christ teaches that concept frequently in His teachings, too, but that truth is purposely concealed by His spiritual language. Mark 8:21-25 is a good example of where Christ teaches when a believer's spiritual blindness is healed. It is not when they receive the Early Rain but only after they receive the Latter Rain.

In chapter 5, James ties the time in between the two rains to Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought. That drought represents when a Early Rain believer "falls away" and becomes "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). During that time, the believer mixes "works" with faith. This truth applies to all Elect believers since the death of Paul.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears (this was a very distressful prophecy Paul was shown).

This event Paul mentions above is the same apostasy that Paul mentions in 2Thes chapter 2. They are one and the same.

No person can direct their own steps to avoid becoming a "man of sin" (Jer 10:23). All the Elect must become "worse than the first" before Christ will come a second time to them with the Latter Rain:

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day?
(the day of salvation for the Elect, they are the wheat) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (this is the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (man of sin) which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king (Satan).


With the Latter Rain, the believer's spiritual blindness is healed and when it is, they will see the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves (Mat 24:15). This is also when the "man of sin" is revealed" (2Thes 2:8). These steps are a required portion of an Elect believer's conversion process which has happened over and over again to all the Elect since the death of Paul.

Christ mentions it here:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom (Satan's another gospel) shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations (meaning the believer has fully accepted this false gospel of mixing works with faith); and then shall the end come (the moment of conversion).

The "end" that comes is talking about a believer moment of conversion when the "old vessel" is destroyed and the new vessel is created:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Paul confirms that the "ends of the ages" represents the conversion of an Elect believer in this verse below:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Paul is saying that only after a believer has the ends of the ages come upon them (they are converted), will the things that happened to the OT fathers teach them truth.

Paul's conversion is a "type" (pattern) that clearly shows the Early and Latter Rain (for those with eyes that can see) which all the Elect will follow (1Tim 1:16). Since all Elect believers will "fall away" and become a "man of sin" who is controlled by the spirit of anti-Christ (the second beast of Rev 13), Elijah must come to them with the call of repentance from "works" so that the pathway for Christ to "come again" is made "straight". John the Baptist served this purpose for the Jewish Elect who had fallen away along with the entire nation (type for the church). Since that time, many different other believers have served this purpose, too. When a person comes in the spirit of Elijah to a fallen away believer, that person will cause the rain (the Latter Rain) to fall again. Without the Latter Rain, there is no salvation for a fallen away believer. They cannot be renewed simply by repentance:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and age-enduring judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Now, notice what verses 7 & 8 say:

Heb 6:7 For the earth (carnal believers) which drinketh in the RAIN (the Latter Rain) that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs (spiritual fruit of a converted believer) meet for them by whom it is dressed (the Elect), receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected (Early Rain believers who remain carnal), and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned (judgment in the next age).

If you still can't see how important the Early and Latter Rain is to understanding how it relates to "works" vs. faith, I will end my presence on this thread.

Joe
 

GracePeace

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Dear GracePeace,
If you had bothered to read my posts, you would see where I presented where James teaches a whole chapter on the Early and Latter Rain subject. Christ teaches that concept frequently in His teachings, too, but that truth is purposely concealed by His spiritual language. Mark 8:21-25 is a good example of where Christ teaches when a believer's spiritual blindness is healed. It is not when they receive the Early Rain but only after they receive the Latter Rain.

In chapter 5, James ties the time in between the two rains to Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought. That drought represents when a Early Rain believer "falls away" and becomes "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). During that time, the believer mixes "works" with faith. This truth applies to all Elect believers since the death of Paul.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears (this was a very distressful prophecy Paul was shown).

This event Paul mentions above is the same apostasy that Paul mentions in 2Thes chapter 2. They are one and the same.

No person can direct their own steps to avoid becoming a "man of sin" (Jer 10:23). All the Elect must become "worse than the first" before Christ will come a second time to them with the Latter Rain:

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day?
(the day of salvation for the Elect, they are the wheat) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (this is the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (man of sin) which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king (Satan).


With the Latter Rain, the believer's spiritual blindness is healed and when it is, they will see the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves (Mat 24:15). This is also when the "man of sin" is revealed" (2Thes 2:8). These steps are a required portion of an Elect believer's conversion process which has happened over and over again to all the Elect since the death of Paul.

Christ mentions it here:

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom (Satan's another gospel) shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations (meaning the believer has fully accepted this false gospel of mixing works with faith); and then shall the end come (the moment of conversion).

The "end" that comes is talking about a believer moment of conversion when the "old vessel" is destroyed and the new vessel is created:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Paul confirms that the "ends of the ages" represents the conversion of an Elect believer in this verse below:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Paul is saying that only after a believer has the ends of the ages come upon them (they are converted), will the things that happened to the OT fathers teach them truth.

Paul's conversion is a "type" (pattern) that clearly shows the Early and Latter Rain (for those with eyes that can see) which all the Elect will follow (1Tim 1:16). Since all Elect believers will "fall away" and become a "man of sin" who is controlled by the spirit of anti-Christ (the second beast of Rev 13), Elijah must come to them with the call of repentance from "works" so that the pathway for Christ to "come again" is made "straight". John the Baptist served this purpose for the Jewish Elect who had fallen away along with the entire nation (type for the church). Since that time, many different other believers have served this purpose, too. When a person comes in the spirit of Elijah to a fallen away believer, that person will cause the rain (the Latter Rain) to fall again. Without the Latter Rain, there is no salvation for a fallen away believer. They cannot be renewed simply by repentance:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and age-enduring judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Now, notice what verses 7 & 8 say:

Heb 6:7 For the earth (carnal believers) which drinketh in the RAIN (the Latter Rain) that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs (spiritual fruit of a converted believer) meet for them by whom it is dressed (the Elect), receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected (Early Rain believers who remain carnal), and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned (judgment in the next age).

If you still can't see how important the Early and Latter Rain is to understanding how it relates to "works" vs. faith, I will end my presence on this thread.

Joe
Please stop being rude.
There will be no discussion of your extra-Biblical ideas. They are nowhere explicitly stated, so I'm not interested.
You will not hijack this thread and make it about yourself by making it about your personal ideas. Love is not rude. Stop being rude.
 

FaithWillDo

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Mar 1, 2023
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Fort Collins, CO, USA
www.greatmysteryofchrist.com
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Please stop being rude.
There will be no discussion of your extra-Biblical ideas. They are nowhere explicitly stated, so I'm not interested.
Dear GracePeace,
I am never rude but the truth of God's Word does offend apostate believers. I presented only a few of the places in the NT where the Early and Latter Rain concept is taught. You just have no ability to "see" and accept them.

This is my last post.
Joe