BAPTISM FOR THE WRONG REASON

[Alanforchrist]

Hi Logabe,
You made good points in your response to Alanforchrist. Please allow me to add to that.

Hi Alanforchrist,

There is not always enough scripture to show exactly why something happens when we do as the scripture says. The reason one does what he does for Christ is obedience by faith.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Faith without works(obedience) is dead.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Abraham (father of faith) was justified by obedience(works) when he offered Isaac.
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Obedience(works) made faith perfect.
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
By this we see that obedience(works) a man is justified, not just by faith.

The scriptures tell us to be baptized and by our obedience(works), by faith, we should be willing to do it.

If you knew the Bible and the Greek [Which you don't], You would know that there is no saving or cleansing power in water baptism.
And James isn't talking about works for salvation.

Are you a Christian??, If you thing you are, Tell me what you thing a Christian is.

Hi Logabe,
You made good points in your response to Alanforchrist. Please allow me to add to that.

Hi Alanforchrist,

There is not always enough scripture to show exactly why something happens when we do as the scripture says. The reason one does what he does for Christ is obedience by faith.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Faith without works(obedience) is dead.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Abraham (father of faith) was justified by obedience(works) when he offered Isaac.
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Obedience(works) made faith perfect.
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
By this we see that obedience(works) a man is justified, not just by faith.

The scriptures tell us to be baptized and by our obedience(works), by faith, we should be willing to do it.

You said,

Hi Logabe,
You made good points in your response to Alanforchrist. Please allow me to add to that.
[End quote].

If you knew the Bible, You would have known that Logabe twisted the sriptures.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

*

Are you a Christian??, If you thing you are, Tell me what you thing a Christian is.

Hi Alan,

Yes I am a Christian.

1. A Christian is foremost a believer in Jesus Christ.
2. Not just that he lived, but that his word is true.
3. That he directed the interpretations of the original scriptures to the point that if they were wrong then nobody has ever been saved.
4. That no one today has any right to change the word of God as written, be it the book of Genesis or Revelation..
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
5. A Christian must have faith.
6. If the scriptures says to do something, then we must do them by faith.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7. Then we must be born again of the water and the Spirit.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
There are plenty of scriptures to confirm the Apostles preached both, baptism in water and Spirit.
8. After we are born again we continue to grow spiritually by increasing our knowledge of God.
9. With this growth we come to truly love our Lord and then it is our desire to please Him.
10. We strive to become more like Jesus, that is why we are called Christians.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Hi Alan,

Yes I am a Christian.

1. A Christian is foremost a believer in Jesus Christ.
2. Not just that he lived, but that his word is true.
3. That he directed the interpretations of the original scriptures to the point that if they were wrong then nobody has ever been saved.
4. That no one today has any right to change the word of God as written, be it the book of Genesis or Revelation..
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
5. A Christian must have faith.
6. If the scriptures says to do something, then we must do them by faith.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7. Then we must be born again of the water and the Spirit.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
There are plenty of scriptures to confirm the Apostles preached both, baptism in water and Spirit.
8. After we are born again we continue to grow spiritually by increasing our knowledge of God.
9. With this growth we come to truly love our Lord and then it is our desire to please Him.
10. We strive to become more like Jesus, that is why we are called Christians.

[1]The devil belives, Are you saying he is a Christian??.
[2]Anyone who thinks we must be baptised in water to be saved, Isn't saved, Because if they were saved, They would know it before they get baptised in water.
[3]Please note, Jn 3: 5, Doesn't say we must be baptised in water..DOES IT???...NO..NO. False religions have made that lie up.
[4]The "Water", In Jn 3: 5, Is symbolic of the word.
Jn 15: 3. Eph 5: 26. James 1: 18. 1 Pet 1: 22--23.

If you are saved, Tell me how you got saved.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

[1]The devil belives, Are you saying he is a Christian??.
[2]Anyone who thinks we must be baptised in water to be saved, Isn't saved, Because if they were saved, They would know it before they get baptised in water.
[3]Please note, Jn 3: 5, Doesn't say we must be baptised in water..DOES IT???...NO..NO. False religions have made that lie up.
[4]The "Water", In Jn 3: 5, Is symbolic of the word.
Jn 15: 3. Eph 5: 26. James 1: 18. 1 Pet 1: 22--23.

If you are saved, Tell me how you got saved.

Good morning Alan,

I had thought about just ignoring your question, but it is my testimony about God's love and I will share it.

I was not in church when there came a time in my life that I knew I needed God. I actually got on my knees and ask God to save me, for I certainly was lost. A short time later circumstances or God led me to a church, where a long ago friend was the Pastor. Sitting in several services that were filled the presence of God in which I cried all thru them. I looked to my wife and told her I was going to be baptized that day. At alter call, I went down, my wife and son decided to join me. My pastor baptized me for the remission of my sins, just as John and the Apostles baptized. I came up out of the water and very quickly I was unaware of anything around me except that I was speaking in tongues with my hands raised to God. My Pastor moved me to a corner of the tank and baptized my wife, I only knew this because at the very moment she came out of the water I saw as she ws speaking in that heavenly language, then my teenage son was baptized and just as I saw my wife coming up out of the water, I saw him come up speaking in that language of worship. When I came out of the tank, it felt as if there was a great weight that had been lifted from me.

This is just as it happened in the New Testament, and I know it was real for it happened to me.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Good morning Alan,

I had thought about just ignoring your question, but it is my testimony about God's love and I will share it.

I was not in church when there came a time in my life that I knew I needed God. I actually got on my knees and ask God to save me, for I certainly was lost. A short time later circumstances or God led me to a church, where a long ago friend was the Pastor. Sitting in several services that were filled the presence of God in which I cried all thru them. I looked to my wife and told her I was going to be baptized that day. At alter call, I went down, my wife and son decided to join me. My pastor baptized me for the remission of my sins, just as John and the Apostles baptized. I came up out of the water and very quickly I was unaware of anything around me except that I was speaking in tongues with my hands raised to God. My Pastor moved me to a corner of the tank and baptized my wife, I only knew this because at the very moment she came out of the water I saw as she ws speaking in that heavenly language, then my teenage son was baptized and just as I saw my wife coming up out of the water, I saw him come up speaking in that language of worship. When I came out of the tank, it felt as if there was a great weight that had been lifted from me.

This is just as it happened in the New Testament, and I know it was real for it happened to me.

Water baptism doesn't remit sins.
If you knew the Bible and the original Greek texts, You would know that water baptism doesn't save.
The experience of the great weight being lifted, Was down to your pre-conceived idear that water baptism saves.
You would have got saved and your sins remited when you asked Jesus to save you, Not when you got baptised.

The disciples were baptised, But it didn't save them.
Paul was saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, But he wasn't baptised in water until later..
The Gentiles in Acts 10, Were saved, baptised in the Holy Ghost and spioke in tongues, But they weren't baptised in water.

 

[aspen]

the wrong reasons?? God chooses us - we do not choose Him. I trust that God's reasons are good.

 

[Alanforchrist]

the wrong reasons?? God chooses us - we do not choose Him. I trust that God's reasons are good.

God DOES NOT choose us, We have to choose God...
To say God does the choosing, Is to say God is an evil God, Because that means he chooses some for heaven and others for hell.
And that is being a respecter of people, AND THAT'S A SIN.

When Jeus said He has chosen the disciples, He meant for Ministry.

 

[logabe]

Water baptism doesn't remit sins.
If you knew the Bible and the original Greek texts, You would know that water baptism doesn't save.
The experience of the great weight being lifted, Was down to your pre-conceived idear that water baptism saves.
You would have got saved and your sins remited when you asked Jesus to save you, Not when you got baptised.

The disciples were baptised, But it didn't save them.
Paul was saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, But he wasn't baptised in water until later..
The Gentiles in Acts 10, Were saved, baptised in the Holy Ghost and spioke in tongues, But they weren't baptised in water.

Alan... I would like you to answer a few questions pertaining to Peter, Phillip, and
Ananias' statements on remission of sins. Acts 2:38,

38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be
baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the
forgiveness of your sins ; and you will receive the
gift of the Holy Spirit.

In an earlier post you told Rocky I was twisting the scriptures. Getting baptised in water
doesn't remit your sins, but being baptised in water, in the Name of Jesus, according to
Peter not Logabe, does remit your sins. Read it in big red letters and tell me whether Peter
is twisting the scriptures or not. That is where I am getting my so called twisting of the
scriptures from. So Alan... I would like you to tell me exactly what Peter is saying because
I want to be in compliance with God. If I am wrong, I want to make it right. In Acts 19:4-5,

4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance,
telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after
him, that is, in Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of
the Lord Jesus.

Do you see that Alan? John's disciples were already baptised in water, but Paul re-baptised
them in the Name of Jesus. My point is... if it wasn't important, why did Paul baptise them
again? What was the difference? Paul knew the significance and just as Peter baptised them
for the remission of sins... he obeyed the scriptures. What was said over them in water baptism
made the difference between John's baptism and Paul's baptism. Acts 22:16 says,

16 'Now why do you delay ? Get up and be baptized, and
wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

There it is again... Ananias is saying the same thing as Peter said in Acts 2. That's called a
second witness. Scripture must build upon scripture and it must say the same thing in order
to establish truth.

No... I don't know any Greek, but I do know a little English, and I would like you to explain
the scriptures as you see them so we all can learn and stop twisting the scriptures.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[Alanforchrist]

But firs

Alan... I would like you to answer a few questions pertaining to Peter, Phillip, and
Ananias' statements on remission of sins. Acts 2:38,

38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be
baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the
forgiveness of your sins ; and you will receive the
gift of the Holy Spirit.

In an earlier post you told Rocky I was twisting the scriptures. Getting baptised in water
doesn't remit your sins, but being baptised in water, in the Name of Jesus, according to
Peter not Logabe, does remit your sins. Read it in big red letters and tell me whether Peter
is twisting the scriptures or not. That is where I am getting my so called twisting of the
scriptures from. So Alan... I would like you to tell me exactly what Peter is saying because
I want to be in compliance with God. If I am wrong, I want to make it right. In Acts 19:4-5,

4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance,
telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after
him, that is, in Jesus."
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of
the Lord Jesus.

Do you see that Alan? John's disciples were already baptised in water, but Paul re-baptised
them in the Name of Jesus. My point is... if it wasn't important, why did Paul baptise them
again? What was the difference? Paul knew the significance and just as Peter baptised them
for the remission of sins... he obeyed the scriptures. What was said over them in water baptism
made the difference between John's baptism and Paul's baptism. Acts 22:16 says,

16 'Now why do you delay ? Get up and be baptized, and
wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

There it is again... Ananias is saying the same thing as Peter said in Acts 2. That's called a
second witness. Scripture must build upon scripture and it must say the same thing in order
to establish truth.

No... I don't know any Greek, but I do know a little English, and I would like you to explain
the scriptures as you see them so we all can learn and stop twisting the scriptures.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

A little knowledge of the Bible [Like you have], Can be a very dangerous thing.
If you did know the Bible, You would know that water baptism doesn't save...If you did know the Bible, you would ask yourself what Acts 2: 38. Acts 19: 2-5 and Acts 22: 16, Means, Then try to find out what they mean.

I will tell you from the Bible's original Greek texts.
But first, Acts 19: 2--6 is self explanitery. The disciples were already saved, [They were disciples,believer] V1.
So they didn't get saved when Paul baptised them.

As for Acts 22: 16, They greek tells us that the, baptism for [Washing away of sins], Is only "A type, A symbol" of salvation.
Acts 9: 6--17. Tells us that Paul was saved at least 3 days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was baptised in water...Proving that water baptism doesn't save.. The Gentiles in Acts 10, were saved, baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, But they weren't baptised in water at that time.

Acts 2: 8, is very misleading, As the emphesis for "Remission of sins" is on the repenting, Not baptism. According to the original Greek text.

In the Greek, there are subjects, numbers and persons, And they have to agree with each other to form a doctrine,
And, "Repent ye, For the remission of sins, And Ye shal receive the gift of the Holy Ghost",
Doesn't agree in number, person or subject to, "Be baptised everyone of you".

So this is the way the people would have heard and understood Peter,
"Repent ye, And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost"...Then and then only can you be baptised in water.

The Greek meaning for water baptism, Is, "The expression, Not the medium, A symbol, Not the cause".

 

[horsecamp]

baptism much more than just out ward signs and symbols




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAJxB7S91GQ