BAPTISM FOR THE WRONG REASON

[horsecamp]

baptism for the wrong reasons .....................God says i have to.. or how about this wrong reason --
God says in scripture some Jewish pharasie leaders refused baptism and Jesus condemned them on the spot..

are you being baptized undercompultion ..

baptism isnt about that ..

its a means of grace

where God gives his promises and unites those promises with the very common element of water ..


i suggest you read all the baptismal verses and see what God wants to give you in baptism ..


where God commands it is always because he wants to Give you what you shouldnt or couldnt live with out


this verse isnt refering to THE HOLY baptism jesus instructs his church to use ..Yet as you can see God here also ! tied the miracle he wanted to do with the washing of water..



John 9:11
He replied, “The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see.”



Faith or the strengthen of faith in Jesus is no less of a miracle than the one above .

we know the following verses refers to holy baptism because its the only washing Jesus instructs his church to use


Titus 3:5

5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,


Ephesians 5:25-27



25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.



Galatians 3:26-27



26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.



1 Peter 3:18-21

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[b] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

[Alanforchrist]

baptism for the wrong reasons .....................God says i have to.. or how about this wrong reason --
God says in scripture some Jewish pharasie leaders refused baptism and Jesus condemned them on the spot..

are you being baptized undercompultion ..

baptism isnt about that ..

its a means of grace

where God gives his promises and unites those promises with the very common element of water ..


i suggest you read all the baptismal verses and see what God wants to give you in baptism ..


where God commands it is always because he wants to Give you what you shouldnt or couldnt live with out


this verse isnt refering to THE HOLY baptism jesus instructs his church to use ..Yet as you can see God here also ! tied the miracle he wanted to do with the washing of water..



John 9:11
He replied, “The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see.”



Faith or the strengthen of faith in Jesus is no less of a miracle than the one above .

we know the following verses refers to holy baptism because its the only washing Jesus instructs his church to use


Titus 3:5

5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,


Ephesians 5:25-27



25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.



Galatians 3:26-27



26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.



1 Peter 3:18-21

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive,[a] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[b] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

There is no regeneration power in water baptism.

Titus 3: 5, Is talking about the Spirit, cleansing us, Not water baptism.

Eph 5: 25--5 is talking about the word cleansing us, Not water baptism.

Gal 3: 26--27 is talking about the Spiritual rebirth, We were baptised into the body of Christ through the Spirit, 1 Cor 12: 13.


The baptism in 1 Pet 3: 21, Is only symbolic of salvation, The original Greek meaning is, Quote.
"Water baptism is a symbol, Not the medium, A type, Not the thing that saves"... End quote.

The disciples were baptised, But they weren't saved.
Paul was saved, But he wasn't baptised until at least three days later.
The Gentiles in Acts 10: 44-46, were saved, baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, But they weren't baptised in water until later.

Jesus was our example, Fist become a child of God, [Jesus was the Son of God], Then you can be baptised in water.
Jesus was baptised because He was the Son of God, Not to become one.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi horsecamp, you say:
i suggest you read all the baptismal verses and see what God wants to give you in baptism ..


Shall we start here:
One might say it is symbolic but Jesus said it was a part of being born again:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So the first thing we see is that God wants to give us the 'gift' of the Holy Ghost.

Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Hi horsecamp, you say:
i suggest you read all the baptismal verses and see what God wants to give you in baptism ..


Shall we start here:
One might say it is symbolic but Jesus said it was a part of being born again:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So the first thing we see is that God wants to give us the 'gift' of the Holy Ghost.

Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[1]The water in Jn 3: 5, Isn't water baptism, Please note what Jesus DIDN'T say.
"Unles you are born of the Spirit and baptised in water"...DID HE??...NO..NO.
The water is symbolic of the word. Jn 15: 3. Eph 5: 26. James 1: 18. 1 Pet 1: 22--23.

[2]If you knew the original Greek meaning for, Acts 2: 38, You would know how the people would have heard and understood Peter.. This how they would have heard.
."Repent for the remission of sin, And you shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost"..Then you can be baptised.

The Greek emphesis for "Remission of sins", Ijn Acts 2: 38, Is on the repenting, NOT baptism.
The Greek emphesis for, "Saved", In Mk 16: 16, Is on the believing, Not baptism.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

[1]The water in Jn 3: 5, Isn't water baptism, Please note what Jesus DIDN'T say.
"Unles you are born of the Spirit and baptised in water"...DID HE??...NO..NO.
The water is symbolic of the word. Jn 15: 3. Eph 5: 26. James 1: 18. 1 Pet 1: 22--23.

[2]If you knew the original Greek meaning for, Acts 2: 38, You would know how the people would have heard and understood Peter.. This how they would have heard.
."Repent for the remission of sin, And you shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost"..Then you can be baptised.

The Greek emphesis for "Remission of sins", Ijn Acts 2: 38, Is on the repenting, NOT baptism.
The Greek emphesis for, "Saved", In Mk 16: 16, Is on the believing, Not baptism.

Hi again,

If one doesn't believe it is necessary to be baptized in water, then they shouldn't do it, however you are missing a few scriptures.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
John told Jesus that he had need to be baptized by him. John always baptized in water for the remission of sin.
Maybe people should say, "good enough for Jesus, good enough for me".

Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Even if we don't understand it, we can be obedient. God will never reject us for doing more for him than is asked.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Hi again,

If one doesn't believe it is necessary to be baptized in water, then they shouldn't do it, however you are missing a few scriptures.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
John told Jesus that he had need to be baptized by him. John always baptized in water for the remission of sin.
Maybe people should say, "good enough for Jesus, good enough for me".

Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Even if we don't understand it, we can be obedient. God will never reject us for doing more for him than is asked.

Baptism was more important in Biblical times because it was the Jews coming out of their religion into Christianity, And the reason for baptism, Was to identify with Jesus.
Water baptism is an outward sign of an ALREADY inward experience. It is One's identification to the death burial and resurrection of Jesus, It is one saying they have died to self and risen with Jesus.

I have been baptised in water, And I teach it, But not as a means to salvation.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Baptism was more important in Biblical times because it was the Jews coming out of their religion into Christianity, And the reason for baptism, Was to identify with Jesus.
Water baptism is an outward sign of an ALREADY inward experience. It is One's identification to the death burial and resurrection of Jesus, It is one saying they have died to self and risen with Jesus.

I have been baptised in water, And I teach it, But not as a means to salvation.

Hi Alan,

The bible is all we have to go by. It is not for me to decide the importance but to be obedient to the Word. There are examples of people being baptized first and others receiving the Holy Ghost first, but each time they were instructed to acquire the one they had not received.

Baptized first:
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Baptized later:
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


We are instructed to listen to those that we know to be of God.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There is no regeneration power in water baptism.

Titus 3: 5, Is talking about the Spirit, cleansing us, Not water baptism.

Eph 5: 25--5 is talking about the word cleansing us, Not water baptism.

Gal 3: 26--27 is talking about the Spiritual rebirth, We were baptised into the body of Christ through the Spirit, 1 Cor 12: 13.


The baptism in 1 Pet 3: 21, Is only symbolic of salvation, The original Greek meaning is, Quote.
"Water baptism is a symbol, Not the medium, A type, Not the thing that saves"... End quote.

The disciples were baptised, But they weren't saved.
Paul was saved, But he wasn't baptised until at least three days later.
The Gentiles in Acts 10: 44-46, were saved, baptised in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues, But they weren't baptised in water until later.

Jesus was our example, Fist become a child of God, [Jesus was the Son of God], Then you can be baptised in water.
Jesus was baptised because He was the Son of God, Not to become one.

I am jeremiahforAlan, or in other words, in agreement with all AlanforChrist has said. Water Baptism is not for regeneration, it is an act of worship and obedience and symbolizes our similar death, burying, and resurrection like Christ, and with Christ.
'Nuff said.

Hi horsecamp, you say:
i suggest you read all the baptismal verses and see what God wants to give you in baptism ..


Shall we start here:
One might say it is symbolic but Jesus said it was a part of being born again:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So the first thing we see is that God wants to give us the 'gift' of the Holy Ghost.

Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Shall we start here:
One might say it is symbolic but Jesus said it was a part of being born again:

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The "water" in John 3:5 can be "water" as in "washing by the water by the Word (of God)" (Eph. 5:26), since it is the Word of God by which the New Birth is effected:

1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

But I prefer to see the word "water" as description for natural birth (the womb of the woman), since the relation between both natural birth and spiritual birth are both controlled by God. Water refers to the embryonic fluid of the womb of the mother in which a child develops prior to birth, and in birth this "sac" of fluid bursts forth as the child begins to make his/her way down the birth canal to be born. In a certain similar way the spiritual birth of a born again believer is effected paternally by the Father as the natural birth of a child is effected maternally by the mother. The one compliments the other. The next verse (3:6) reveals and maintains the continuity of practical thought. One birth is flesh-birth represented by the water, the other birth is Spirit-birth represented by the Spirit.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Hi Alan,

The bible is all we have to go by. It is not for me to decide the importance but to be obedient to the Word. There are examples of people being baptized first and others receiving the Holy Ghost first, but each time they were instructed to acquire the one they had not received.

Baptized first:
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Baptized later:
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


We are instructed to listen to those that we know to be of God.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

The original Greek text's says that water baptism is only a symbol, And it doesn't save.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

The original Greek text's says that water baptism is only a symbol, And it doesn't save.

It is a cereomial ablution that is commanded to be done by God, as Peter verified from the very first time he spoke after receiving the Holy Ghost.
Do we think that the offering that the Jews presented to God is what moved their sins for a year. No, it was the only way God would honor his covenant with them.
Let us not split hairs. The word says to do it, and that is the way it has to be done.

I am jeremiahforAlan, or in other words, in agreement with all AlanforChrist has said. Water Baptism is not for regeneration, it is an act of worship and obedience and symbolizes our similar death, burying, and resurrection like Christ, and with Christ.
'Nuff said.


The "water" in John 3:5 can be "water" as in "washing by the water by the Word (of God)" (Eph. 5:26), since it is the Word of God by which the New Birth is effected:

1 Peter 1:23
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

But I prefer to see the word "water" as description for natural birth (the womb of the woman), since the relation between both natural birth and spiritual birth are both controlled by God. Water refers to the embryonic fluid of the womb of the mother in which a child develops prior to birth, and in birth this "sac" of fluid bursts forth as the child begins to make his/her way down the birth canal to be born. In a certain similar way the spiritual birth of a born again believer is effected paternally by the Father as the natural birth of a child is effected maternally by the mother. The one compliments the other. The next verse (3:6) reveals and maintains the continuity of practical thought. One birth is flesh-birth represented by the water, the other birth is Spirit-birth represented by the Spirit.

Hi jeremiahforAlan'

Water - Cleansing
Spirit - Eternal Life
Blood - Covering of our sins.

1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Anything less than one, is incomplete.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Jesus did not think it unimportant, for that was God's plan.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Should it not scare us to change the word of God to suit our purpose? Maybe we can't understand it, but it is a command from Jesus that we do it his way.

 

[Alanforchrist]

It is a cereomial ablution that is commanded to be done by God, as Peter verified from the very first time he spoke after receiving the Holy Ghost.
Do we think that the offering that the Jews presented to God is what moved their sins for a year. No, it was the only way God would honor his covenant with them.
Let us not split hairs. The word says to do it, and that is the way it has to be done.


Hi jeremiahforAlan'

Water - Cleansing
Spirit - Eternal Life
Blood - Covering of our sins.

1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Anything less than one, is incomplete.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Jesus did not think it unimportant, for that was God's plan.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Should it not scare us to change the word of God to suit our purpose? Maybe we can't understand it, but it is a command from Jesus that we do it his way.

If you knew the Greek for Acts 2: 38, You would know that Peter never comanded them to be baptised.
This is the way the people would have heard and understood Peter.
"Repent for the remission of sins,And you shal receive the gift of the Holy Ghost".....Then you can be baptised..Not the other way around.

 

[jeremiah1five]

It is a cereomial ablution that is commanded to be done by God, as Peter verified from the very first time he spoke after receiving the Holy Ghost.
Do we think that the offering that the Jews presented to God is what moved their sins for a year. No, it was the only way God would honor his covenant with them.
Let us not split hairs. The word says to do it, and that is the way it has to be done.


Hi jeremiahforAlan'

Water - Cleansing
Spirit - Eternal Life
Blood - Covering of our sins.

1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Anything less than one, is incomplete.

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Jesus did not think it unimportant, for that was God's plan.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Should it not scare us to change the word of God to suit our purpose? Maybe we can't understand it, but it is a command from Jesus that we do it his way.

Actually, water, Spirit, and blood all cleanse, don't they?
Water cleanses. Spirit sanctifies (that, too, is a method of cleansing), and blood of Christ cleanses us from sin.
I think you do know that 1 John 5:8 was added after the canon of Scripture was closed. I believe the translators of the KJV did that.
Not sure your use of Matthew 3:16 and John 3:5 in context to your statement.

 

[Alanforchrist]

Actually, water, Spirit, and blood all cleanse, don't they?
Water cleanses. Spirit sanctifies (that, too, is a method of cleansing), and blood of Christ cleanses us from sin.
I think you do know that 1 John 5:8 was added after the canon of Scripture was closed. I believe the translators of the KJV did that.
Not sure your use of Matthew 3:16 and John 3:5 in context to your statement.

The Bible teaches that, The Blood of Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the word of God cleanses us,
But water baptism DOESN'T cleans us...Acts 22: 16 Metaphorically says water baptism washes away sins..Bit it IS only metaphoriclly speaking, As we know from Acts 9: 6--17, That Paul had been saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was baptised in water.

You said, "Not sure your use of Matthew 3:16 and John 3:5 in context to your statement". End quote.
Thats because your not sure about the Bible.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The Bible teaches that, The Blood of Jesus, The Holy Spirit and the word of God cleanses us,
But water baptism DOESN'T cleans us...Acts 22: 16 Metaphorically says water baptism washes away sins..Bit it IS only metaphoriclly speaking, As we know from Acts 9: 6--17, That Paul had been saved three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was baptised in water.

You said, "Not sure your use of Matthew 3:16 and John 3:5 in context to your statement". End quote.
Thats because your not sure about the Bible.

Hi Alan. You don't have to try so hard. I know that water baptism is symbolic and represents the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and that believers first act of obedience is to follow Christ.
Water baptism also cleanses us, but the cleansing is symbolic. There is no actual cleansing of sin in the saint/believer. If you sprinkle then consider your hair washed. If you are dipped consider your skin and clothing rinsed. But you will get dirty again.
Water baptism is symbolic (metaphor).
Big "Amen!" here.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi Alan. You don't have to try so hard. I know that water baptism is symbolic and represents the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and that believers first act of obedience is to follow Christ.
Water baptism also cleanses us, but the cleansing is symbolic. There is no actual cleansing of sin in the saint/believer. If you sprinkle then consider your hair washed. If you are dipped consider your skin and clothing rinsed. But you will get dirty again.
Water baptism is symbolic (metaphor).
Big "Amen!" here.

Hi Jeremiah,

Symbolic in the natural, but not in the spiritual. God has set up the rules, we are to obey them. The Jews offered sacrifices of animals, that was symbolic, but they did it.
Has man come to the point that we now tell God how we are to be saved?

 

[Alanforchrist]

Hi Alan. You don't have to try so hard. I know that water baptism is symbolic and represents the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and that believers first act of obedience is to follow Christ.
Water baptism also cleanses us, but the cleansing is symbolic. There is no actual cleansing of sin in the saint/believer. If you sprinkle then consider your hair washed. If you are dipped consider your skin and clothing rinsed. But you will get dirty again.
Water baptism is symbolic (metaphor).
Big "Amen!" here.

There is no cleansing power in water baptism, It is just a witness, An outward sign of an ALREADY inward experience.

 

[logabe]

There is no cleansing power in water baptism, It is just a witness, An outward sign of an ALREADY inward experience.

Let's not miss the point here and understand you are being baptised in Christ Jesus. That
is what washes away your sin, "His Name". Acts 10:43 says,

43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His
name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness
of sins."

We have to understand we are putting "His Name" on in water baptism. God chose to do it
that way in the New Testament and that's part of being washed by the Word when you begin
to obey the scriptures. Are you saved before baptism? I think so because you have faith in
Jesus Christ and your faith exempts you from having to go through the Lake of Fire. Paul said,
you will be saved, but like as by fire 1st Cor. 3:15.

Peter didn't ask the gentiles to be baptised, but he commanded them because he understood
the importance of putting on the Name in water baptism. It washed away your sin by applying
the Name with the water. You are saved by that Name in Acts 4:12,

12 "And there is salvation in no one else ; for there is no
other name under heaven that has been given among men
by which we must be saved."

When you pray for someone... what Name do you pray in? I think you pray in the Name of Jesus.
Why? Because the scriptures tells us too Col. 3:17,

17 Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name
of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the
Father.

What about casting out devils? Jesus is the only Name, because that is where the BLOOD is. When
you pray... you must do it in the Name of Jesus or God want except your prays. Why? You are applying
the BLOOD on your prays and that's the only way God receives them. He must see the Blood. When I
tell you to be baptised in the Name, I am being obedient to the scriptures and believing that the Blood
is being applied to my sin.

I am buried with Him in baptism and I have put on His Name for the purpose of washing away my sin.
If what I am saying is completely wrong, I want you to understand I am getting it from the scriptures.
Ananias told Paul in Acts 22:16,

16 'Now why do you delay ? Get up and be baptized, and wash
away your sins, calling on His name.'

Why would Ananias say such a thing if it wasn't true? Why would Peter command the gentiles to be
baptised instead of giving them options? Peter could have ask... would you like to be baptised, but it
wasn't an option. Don't take my word for it, but be a Berean, and search the scriptures daily, and see
if these things are so Acts 17:11.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[Alanforchrist]

Let's not miss the point here and understand you are being baptised in Christ Jesus. That
is what washes away your sin, "His Name". Acts 10:43 says,

43 "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His
name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness
of sins."

We have to understand we are putting "His Name" on in water baptism. God chose to do it
that way in the New Testament and that's part of being washed by the Word when you begin
to obey the scriptures. Are you saved before baptism? I think so because you have faith in
Jesus Christ and your faith exempts you from having to go through the Lake of Fire. Paul said,
you will be saved, but like as by fire 1st Cor. 3:15.

Peter didn't ask the gentiles to be baptised, but he commanded them because he understood
the importance of putting on the Name in water baptism. It washed away your sin by applying
the Name with the water. You are saved by that Name in Acts 4:12,

12 "And there is salvation in no one else ; for there is no
other name under heaven that has been given among men
by which we must be saved."

When you pray for someone... what Name do you pray in? I think you pray in the Name of Jesus.
Why? Because the scriptures tells us too Col. 3:17,

17 Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name
of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the
Father.

What about casting out devils? Jesus is the only Name, because that is where the BLOOD is. When
you pray... you must do it in the Name of Jesus or God want except your prays. Why? You are applying
the BLOOD on your prays and that's the only way God receives them. He must see the Blood. When I
tell you to be baptised in the Name, I am being obedient to the scriptures and believing that the Blood
is being applied to my sin.

I am buried with Him in baptism and I have put on His Name for the purpose of washing away my sin.
If what I am saying is completely wrong, I want you to understand I am getting it from the scriptures.
Ananias told Paul in Acts 22:16,

16 'Now why do you delay ? Get up and be baptized, and wash
away your sins, calling on His name.'

Why would Ananias say such a thing if it wasn't true? Why would Peter command the gentiles to be
baptised instead of giving them options? Peter could have ask... would you like to be baptised, but it
wasn't an option. Don't take my word for it, but be a Berean, and search the scriptures daily, and see
if these things are so Acts 17:11.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

Please look at Acts 10: 43., Where does it say we have remission of sins through water baptism???. Stop twisting the scriptures.
Nowhere does the Bible's original Greek texts say water baptism cleanses. And if you knew the Bible, You would know water baptism doesn't save.
Baptsim in Acts 22: 16, is only symbolic , Paul was already saved at least three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was baptised in water..And Ananias knew it, He called Saul, "Brother Saul",..So how can water baptism wash or save??.

You obviousley don't know the Bible or the Greek.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Let's not miss the point here and understand you are being baptised in Christ Jesus. That
is what washes away your sin, "His Name". Acts 10:43 says,



Logabe

Hi Logabe,
You made good points in your response to Alanforchrist. Please allow me to add to that.

Please look at Acts 10: 43., Where does it say we have remission of sins through water baptism???. Stop twisting the scriptures.
Nowhere does the Bible's original Greek texts say water baptism cleanses. And if you knew the Bible, You would know water baptism doesn't save.
Baptsim in Acts 22: 16, is only symbolic , Paul was already saved at least three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was baptised in water..And Ananias knew it, He called Saul, "Brother Saul",..So how can water baptism wash or save??.

You obviousley don't know the Bible or the Greek.

Hi Alanforchrist,

There is not always enough scripture to show exactly why something happens when we do as the scripture says. The reason one does what he does for Christ is obedience by faith.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Faith without works(obedience) is dead.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Abraham (father of faith) was justified by obedience(works) when he offered Isaac.
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Obedience(works) made faith perfect.
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
By this we see that obedience(works) a man is justified, not just by faith.

The scriptures tell us to be baptized and by our obedience(works), by faith, we should be willing to do it.

 

[logabe]

Please look at Acts 10: 43., Where does it say we have remission of sins through water baptism???. Stop twisting the scriptures.
Nowhere does the Bible's original Greek texts say water baptism cleanses. And if you knew the Bible, You would know water baptism doesn't save.
Baptsim in Acts 22: 16, is only symbolic , Paul was already saved at least three days before he was baptised in the Holy Ghost, And that was before he was baptised in water..And Ananias knew it, He called Saul, "Brother Saul",..So how can water baptism wash or save??.

You obviousley don't know the Bible or the Greek.

In Acts 10:43... Peter was explaining how we receive remission of sins. I thought
I explained it well enough, but, maybe not. In order to understand what Peter is
saying we must look @ other scriptures to have some clarity. Acts 2:38 says,

38 Peter said to them, " Repent, and each of you be
baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the
forgiveness of your sins ; and you will receive the
gift of the Holy Spirit.

There's two things we need to recognize in this statement. Baptised and Name is
what Peter said... not me. When you apply the Name in baptism, Peter said, you
receive remission of sin. Peter said in Acts 10:43, that through "His Name" when
you believe on Him, you receive remission or forgiveness of sin. When you believe,
God covers your sin because you believe in His name... you are saved.

If you truly believe in His Name, you will be obedient and obey the command to
be baptised in that Name to make it legal in the Divine Court. Jesus came not by
water alone, but by water and blood 1st John 5:6-8. In John 19:34, it was confirmed
that Jesus was a man because when the soldiers pierced His side, blood and water
came forth. That established His humanity and you get the Power of the Holy Ghost
through the man Jesus.

Jesus came to establish the Father's Name in the earth. What was that Name? John
17:26 says,

26 and I have made Your name known to them, and
will make it known, so that the love with which You
loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

He made the Name Jesus known, because that was the Name of the Father. Phil.
2:9-10 says,

9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and
bestowed on Him the name which is above every
name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL
BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and
under the earth,

Now... we should be seeing the importance of that Name. That name is how you
receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Lord... in the Name of Jesus, baptise me
in the Holy Ghost. That's why Jesus said you will receive Power after that the Holy
Ghost has come upon you. In Acts 4:10, Peter addressed the rulers of Israel and
said,

10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of
Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene,
whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead
-by this name this man stands here before you in good
health.

Man... that's some good stuff Peter. Think about what we are doing when we reject
the Name in water baptism for the remission of sin. We need to stop rejecting the
Man and just become obedient to the scriptures. We have a problem with the water
and we miss the significance of the purpose of the deed. What is the big deal? Just
get baptised in His Name and you are covered. Isn't that what the scriptures are
telling us. What part do we not understand? Acts 2:41,

41 So then, those who had received his word were
baptized ; and that day there were added about three
thousand souls.

Have you received the word?

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe