"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[saved by grace 101]

The Word is my passion. The fracturing of your expression is discordant like an untrained choir.

The expression "God does not lay the demands" can be refuted in part or in whole, even with your expression made more readable by the placement of the missing comma.

Im never concerned if my academic mind is not so good, so I do not write as wonderfully as others may perceive they do:

At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. Luke10:21

 

[XtraPercept]

Well here's a few examples.
Some protestants say no catholic can be saved and some catholics say no protestant can be saved. Many on the internet believe you cannot be saved unless you accept an equal Trinity.
But I was really thinking of something else to be honest.
As a teenager I would sit on a wall close to the church after the service and smoke a cigarette, it was a church that believed in the gifts of the Spirit for today. Some of the looks I got from some of the parishoners led me to believe I would go to hell for smoking alone, let alone all my other imperfections. And scripture was also placed before me to show the gravity of my smoking.
Years later I went to hear an internationally known evangelist preach. Some of us went out for private prayer after the service. The evangelist told me much about my life though they had never met me before, and they confirmed, I had been, what evangelicals describe baptised in the Holy Spirit, and yet, at that time I still smoked. It was with that example in mind I made my statement to you

If you feel condemnation from God, if you do not presently exchange smiles with Him in truth and sincerity, how can you claim to be baptized in His Spirit?

I write this to you before Him now and He smiles upon my efforts.

Im never concerned if my academic mind is not so good, so I do not write as wonderfully as others may perceive they do:

At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do. Luke10:21

You think I condemn you for lack of graciousness in your words for the words themselves.

What I speak against is the spirit from which you compose your words because of how you use the words of the God of Truth among them.

All I seek to demonstrate to anyone is my love of the Word in truth and sincerity.

 

[saved by grace 101]

If you feel condemnation from God, if you do not presently exchange smiles with Him in truth and sincerity, how can you claim to be baptized in His Spirit?

I write this to you before Him now and He smiles upon my efforts.



You think I condemn you for lack of graciousness in your words for the words themselves.

What I speak against is the spirit from which you compose your words because of how you use the words of the God of Truth among them.

All I seek to demonstrate to anyone is my love of the Word in truth and sincerity.

Have you ever wondered if you might have a critical spirit?
Condemnation then, not now.

 

[saved by grace 101]

But I make bold claims.

So be at peace everyone, I shall withdraw from this place.

I see I am not welcome here.

If you feel not welcome, is that everyone elses fault or yours?
Possibly you feel others are not on the spiritual plateau you believe you have reached?

 

[XtraPercept]

If you feel not welcome, is that everyone elses fault or yours?
Possibly you feel others are not on the spiritual plateau you believe you have reached?

If you feel condemned by the words I use, perhaps you should consider why that is.

I take no offense from anyone but for that which they speak against God.

But it's fine. I do enjoy the way these interactions get me thinking.

I just don't want to rustle too many feathers yet.

 

[saved by grace 101]

If you feel condemned by the words I use, perhaps you should consider why that is.

I don't feel condemned by any words you use. To be frank, I take little notice of them, you seem to me to be someone who likes to try and put others down, someone who believes they have reached a superior place in their christian walk than others. In truth, Im starting to feel sorry for you

 

[Lizbeth]

I would like to address some of your points here....

Jesus was born 100% human and so he was a mortal just like his siblings, but without inherited sin. He had no supernatural abilities until he received the Holy Spirit at his baptism at the age of 30. This is why his siblings had trouble putting faith in him...he was just their big brother...someone they had grown up with. They were as amazed by his miracles as everyone else. None put faith in him until after his resurrection.

He came from God.....he was ”sent” by him as Scripture plainly states. (John 3:16; John 17:3) Implying something, doesn’t make it true.
Jesus is called God’s “only begotten son”....but what does that mean in the big picture when God is said to have many “sons” in heaven with him? Does it make Jesus merely “an angel” to suggest that he is created?
He is not like any other creation...he is unique....a one off.

Paul calls him “the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation”. (Col 1:15)
If he is the “firstborn” of “ALL CREATION” then he is the first and only direct creation of his Father. Or as it says in Rev 3:14...he is “the beginning of God’s creation”.
All things came into existence “THROUGH” the Son, but from the Father, using God’s powerful spirit in the process.

Do we appreciate why he had to be born as a sinless human to pay the price of redemption, which was set in Eden?
Sinless life was lost for all of Adam’s children in one act of disobedience, so with one act of redemption, Jesus paid for our sin, with his sinless life...we inherited sin against our will, and it was not our fault....Jesus came to pay for what we might do in the future, because of inherited sin....”while we were yet sinners Christ died for us”.
What a wonderful safety net! But for unbelievers no net at all. They will ignore Christ’s sacrifice as of no importance....trampling on the most precious gift that God ever gave the world.

Yes they do, but none of them state that he is Yahweh. He is “the son of Yahweh” and always has been.
He is God’s firstborn...”monogenes” which is a word used in the Bible for an “only child”....not exclusive to Jesus.

Jesus was a unique son in that he was used as the agency for his God and Father in creation, which Paul states was “created through him and for him”. Creation was therefore to be God’s gift to his precious son....and he was offered a large part in bringing it into existence, but using God’s powerful spirit to accomplish it.

All those titles in Hebrew have a much wider meaning than they do in English.
Was Jesus a “Wonderful Counsellor? Yes, the best there was, because all his counsel came from his Father.

Was he an “everlasting father”? Yes...a father is a life-giver and Jesus is responsible for giving us everlasting life.....which is the restoration of all that we lost in the garden of Eden.

Is he the “Prince of Peace”? Yes, because he is the son of a King, who was chosen to rule in his Father’s Kingdom. He shares the throne with his God and Father. Co-regency was not uncommon in Bible times.

Interpretation is everything....so if you interpret Scripture incorrectly, by taking words and phrases at face value, without using other Scripture and resources to back up any statement of belief, you end up in the confusion of Christendom, who don’t quite know what to believe about a lot of things.....

Full of rationalizing (carnal mind = enmity) Who does the OT say is Saviour? God. This is not rocket science and God's word wasn't given by Him in such a way that it needs to be dissected and examined under a microscope in order to be received. It is the Holy Spirit who opens His word to our hearts and understanding. And He chooses to hide truth from the wise and learned and reveal it to little children........which we must become as to enter the kingdom.

 

[Lizbeth]

Clarity is my goal. If you would consider that I might have something to offer you, perhaps you won't reject it without contemplating it first, at least.

God is The Spirit. Is there another?

Making satan, demons, four faced spinning wheels with wings, and angels out to be "spirits" is a deep misunderstanding of the ideas presented.

You can't know the flesh of Jesus because it is ascended with Him; the only means by which we contact Him is by reaching to His Spirit with our own.

How do you contact Someone Who only appears available through a Book; that is to contact Spirit with our spirit?

You have to read about Him.

Here is what could help your understanding were you to accept it:

Reading the Bible, especially the new and unfamiliar parts along with frequent dictionary references, is how you deposit truth from the Spirit into your own spirit; which is dead until sufficient truth is present that God revives the spirit in which His truth is accumulated through revelation.

Revelation is the unfolding and expansion of understanding. Sometimes what is revealed is a series of steps connecting two points previously separated, other times what is revealed is a distant step for which the connections will come to be understood at a later time.

The Spirit is sent, He is among us, He is within me now.
I seek to share Him, but as He said, many will call good evil and evil good.
It is not piety to reject ideas; it is piety to choose the best among all of them, because the Best of them is God.

I fought the triune furnace god and won. It was a paper tiger all along.

The real God of truth always makes sense, always lines up, and is always consistent.

The only 'mysteries of faith' come from gnosticism, errant doctrine, and all the irrational imaginings of of disobedience.

Well, you are free to make what assumptions you will. One thing I understand about spirits, is to never stop testing them.

 

[Lizbeth]

Jesus said, "be perfect therefore as your Father in heaven is perfect."

Despite the regional expansion of the faith among the Greek speaking population of the time, the Byzantine and Alexandrian texts are nearly identical.

The Apostle said "study; that's how you demonstrate your approval!"

To shrug and say "I did enough" is to surrender so woefully short of your highest potential.

Study in that verse you are speaking of is an older usage of that word which means "endeavour". It is not specifically instructing us to study His word with an intellectual (carnal minded) approach like a textbook.

 

[keithr]

Do you not believe that the Son has always existed, that he is also God in nature?

No, I believe only God existed originally, and later God created His Son. God's Son was not immortal, so he was not exactly like God. When God resurrected Jesus, after Jesus had proved himself loyal to God and learned obedience, He gave him immortality, so now Jesus may have identical nature to God, in which case God's promises to Christians is indeed exceedingly great! :

2 Peter 1:4 WEB

(4) by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust.​

1 John 3:2 WEB

(2) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it is not yet revealed what we will be. But we know that when he is revealed, we will be like him; for we will see him just as he is.​

​

Hebrews 5:7-10 WEB

(7) He, in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and petitions with strong crying and tears to him who was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear,​

(8) though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered.​

(9) Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation,​

(10) named by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.​

If not, I would suggest looking closer at what this verse is saying:

1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

All things (all of creation) are from God, because they are His design and it was His will that they be created. God chose that His Son should perform the creative acts, according to God's plan. Colossians 1:16 says that all created things were for God's Son (as Jesus said in prayer, "All things that are mine are yours, and yours are mine, and I am glorified in them" - John 17:10).

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Each "for" links to the previous statement, creating a chain of thought for his argument, from verse 9 to verse 13. Paul is therefore applying Joel 2:32 to Jesus, that calling on his name is the same as calling on the name of Yahweh. It is the Septuagint that uses "Lord," kyrios, in the OT in the place of YHWH, over 6,000 times. But you probably knew that. While it does have other meanings that are used of Christ, there are instances where the meaning of LORD (YHWH), is applied directly to him.

The "for"s introduce further explanation. Verse 10 comments more on faith/belief.

Verse 11 is indeed referring to Jesus, as the Scripture Paul is referring to is Isaiah 28:16 (Septuagint - the translation used by Jesus and the early Christians):

(16) Therefore thus saith the Lord, even the Lord, Behold, I lay for the foundations of Sion a costly stone, a choice, a corner-stone, a precious stone, for its foundations; and he that believes on him shall by no means be ashamed.​

Verse 12 refers to God making no distinction between believers in Christ - compare with Romans 3:21-30 WEB

(21) But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets;​

(22) even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction,​

(23) for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;​

(24) being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;​

(25) whom God sent to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God’s forbearance;​

(26) to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus.​

(27) Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.​

(28) We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.​

(29) Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn’t he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,​

(30) since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through faith.​

When verse 12 says "the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on him" I believe it is referring to God, not Jesus - from the above and 1 Timothy 2:5 WEB

(5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,​

Here, Paul's application of Joel 2:32, as it would read in the LXX, is to ascribe deity to Jesus, by the line of thought he develops from verse 9 to verse 13--confessing Jesus is Lord is to call on the name of the Lord and be saved.

The Septuagint indeed does subtitute 'Lord' for God's name, but the original Hebrew states God's name YHVH, as Paul and the Jews would have understood. They would not have believed it was referring to the Messiah. Joel 2:32 WEB

(32) It will happen that whoever will call on Yahweh’s name shall be saved; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape, as Yahweh has said, and among the remnant, those whom Yahweh calls.​

God YHVH calls people to Himself through Jesus - John 6:44 WEB

(44) No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.​

 

[GodsGrace]

Well here's a few examples.
Some protestants say no catholic can be saved and some catholics say no protestant can be saved. Many on the internet believe you cannot be saved unless you accept an equal Trinity.
But I was really thinking of something else to be honest.
As a teenager I would sit on a wall close to the church after the service and smoke a cigarette, it was a church that believed in the gifts of the Spirit for today. Some of the looks I got from some of the parishoners led me to believe I would go to hell for smoking alone, let alone all my other imperfections. And scripture was also placed before me to show the gravity of my smoking.
Years later I went to hear an internationally known evangelist preach. Some of us went out for private prayer after the service. The evangelist told me much about my life though they had never met me before, and they confirmed, I had been, what evangelicals describe baptised in the Holy Spirit, and yet, at that time I still smoked. It was with that example in mind I made my statement to you

saved, fell on this when I went to this page.

There's so much garbage in your post that I wouldn't know where to start.
I know that YOU are not making those statements,,,but are INCORRECT ideas on all sides.

Catholics that believe Protestants are going to hell don't know their religion/faith - many of them do not.
Protestants that think Catholics are going to hell are even worse because they're SUPPOSED to know their religion/faith.
And they SHOULD know that salvation is belief in God and obedience to God - doesn't matter which denomination one belongs to.

Not smoking will not send anyone to heaven...
Just as smoking will not send anyone to hell.

As to the Trinity.....

It's not the those that do NOT believe in the Trinity are going to hell....
it's just that the Trinity is a tenet of the Christian religion/faith.
IF a person wants to state that they are Christian..then they MUST accept the doctrine of the Trinity.

It's been a doctrine from the very beginning and is throughout the NT (and the OT where we can also find Jesus).
Arianism was debunked and eliminated from Christianity at the Council of Nicea in 325AD because some were teaching that Jesus was a man.

About 200 years ago, arianism returned with the advent of the JWs and some others today that teach that Jesus is not God.

This is NOT a Christian teaching.
Christianity teaches that Jesus is God.

A person (or denomination) CANNOT make up their own TYPE of Christianity.

That's all I wanted to say.

 

[GodsGrace]

Study in that verse you are speaking of is an older usage of that word which means "endeavour". It is not specifically instructing us to study His word with an intellectual (carnal minded) approach like a textbook.

Actually, the bible does say to study to show ouselves approved.
Studying ALSO requires a carnal mind.


And the word PERFECT can have different meanings,,,including endeavor or complete in intent...(as you've stated)
it certainly does not mean perfect in the literal meaning because Jesus knew very well that man could not be perfect.

 

[GodsGrace]

Regarding immortality -

Rev 21:8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Next chapter, same people, explaining what second death means.

Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Second death, separation from God, away from the holy city of light, into outer darkness, the place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Unable to enter the city of light because they can't stand the holy light, lost in their sins.

But most of all, they are very much alive!

There goes another false JW doctrine.

The JWs got so much wrong it's difficult to address it all.
I understand they've changed some of their rules - the man-made rules.
Maybe the young were deserting that cult?
Don't know - don't really care - it's good if people get out of it.
It's a CULT for goodness sake.....

 

[Davy]

No, I believe only God existed originally, and later God created His Son.

BEWARE brethren.

That belief that Lord Jesus Christ was 'created' to the Office of Son of God is a doctrine of the Jehovah's Witness and Seventh Day Adventist cults. And that idea actually is derived from the unbelieving Jew's religion. Thus the founders of those two cults reveal their connection with the Jewish converts that tried to bring Gentiles back into bondage under law, a group of Jews that Apostle Paul rebuked and had difficulty with during his ministry.

The unbelieving Jews reject Jesus of Nazareth as GOD The Savior simply because they don't understand that the Office of The Christ means part of the eternal Godhead which had no beginning nor has an end. This is why Jesus said that God revealed that fact to Peter, because Peter called Jesus of Nazareth "the Christ" when Jesus asked Peter who He was. (Matthew 16:16)

The only matter of creation involving Lord Jesus was when He as God came in the flesh through a virgin woman's womb, Mary. Matthew 1:23 repeats the Isaiah 7:14 prophecy that Christ would be born of a virgin, and His Name would be called "Jesus", and His name also as "Emmanuel", which means, "God with us".

Lord Jesus existed as The Christ, God The Son, prior... to His being born of a virgin. This is one of the main subjects of the Book of Hebrews.

So when you HEAR someone claiming they do not believe Jesus of Nazareth is GOD The Son, and part of The Godhead, and existed before He was born in the flesh as Immanuel, God with us, then you KNOW that person is, or has been, under the influence of UNBELIEVING JEWS.

 

[saved by grace 101]

saved, fell on this when I went to this page.

There's so much garbage in your post that I wouldn't know where to start.
I know that YOU are not making those statements,,,but are INCORRECT ideas on all sides.

Catholics that believe Protestants are going to hell don't know their religion/faith - many of them do not.
Protestants that think Catholics are going to hell are even worse because they're SUPPOSED to know their religion/faith.
And they SHOULD know that salvation is belief in God and obedience to God - doesn't matter which denomination one belongs to.

Not smoking will not send anyone to heaven...
Just as smoking will not send anyone to hell.

As to the Trinity.....

It's not the those that do NOT believe in the Trinity are going to hell....
it's just that the Trinity is a tenet of the Christian religion/faith.
IF a person wants to state that they are Christian..then they MUST accept the doctrine of the Trinity.

It's been a doctrine from the very beginning and is throughout the NT (and the OT where we can also find Jesus).
Arianism was debunked and eliminated from Christianity at the Council of Nicea in 325AD because some were teaching that Jesus was a man.

About 200 years ago, arianism returned with the advent of the JWs and some others today that teach that Jesus is not God.

This is NOT a Christian teaching.
Christianity teaches that Jesus is God.

A person (or denomination) CANNOT make up their own TYPE of Christianity.

That's all I wanted to say.

As you told me you don't want to debate me anymore, I will not read the post and therefore not respond to it. I think that wise, as it is fair to say you got upset when I previously pressed you to answer a question

 

[GodsGrace]

'In the end times there will be antichrists,' the Apostle wrote, 'and indeed they're already here.'

That was 2000 years ago, give or take.

I agree that heresies were taught in the Christian religion from the very beginning.

When I mention 200 years ago, I'm referring specifically to those that teach that Jesus is not God.

This was settled in the early church because some were teaching that Jesus was just a man.
This would be the Arians.

This was settled at the Council of Nicea in 325AD.

IOW...the Christian religion teaches that Jesus is God.

This is a very important tenet of Christianity, a major tenet.
If a person does NOT believe Jesus is God,,,,he should not consider himself to be Christian.

It's like calling yourself a doctor but you don't know how the circulatory system works.

 

[GodsGrace]

As you told me you don't want to debate me anymore, I will not read the post and therefore not respond to it. I think that wise, as it is fair to say you got upset when I previously pressed you to answer a question

I DO NOT want to debate anything.

For those reading along,
I felt it was important to clarify both the Catholic and Protestant beliefs that some have that are
INCORRECT.

No reply necessary.

 

[GodsGrace]

As you told me you don't want to debate me anymore, I will not read the post and therefore not respond to it. I think that wise, as it is fair to say you got upset when I previously pressed you to answer a question

PS

I don't know anyone on these boards well enough to get upset over anything they post.

I NEVER get upset ---- this is your problem --- you ASSUME too much.
I'm here to post to correct some important information that is incorrectly posted.

Incorrect theology must be corrected.

 

[saved by grace 101]

PS

I don't know anyone on these boards well enough to get upset over anything they post.

I NEVER get upset ---- this is your problem --- you ASSUME too much.
I'm here to post to correct some important information that is incorrectly posted.

Incorrect theology must be corrected.

Oh you did, you were having a very friendly and courteous conversation with me, until I pressed you to answer one question. I then received three posts from you, your tone totally changed, complaining I was ignoring what you wrote so you saw no point in continuing the discussion with me, when in truth I had spent much time addressing so much of what you wrote

 

[amigo de christo]

So... Why are you calling me "ecumenical" when I preach a faith more singular than the "triune" variant you've been on about?

Why would you imply that I have said one must know Greek?

I never said people need to know it, I like to because I'm all about meaning and it is my joy and pleasure to share.

I just love the Word; He's my only true passion.

I am simply reminding all that does breath air
HAVE nothing to do with anything ecumenical . It has set a snare within it
for to simply gather all denominations
to merge as one as well as with the other religions . And more and more
they are coming to the lie , the very lie that will damn them all and double damn those in wool
who dared to bring it unto christendom .
ALL other religions are false , of the darkness and satan has them .
NOW the only way to be freed from that
FAITH TIME IN JESUS THE CHRIST , YE MUST BELEIVE .
so tell me
why i am seeing korans and budda statues and religions of this world
all gathered as one on s tage
and MEN IN WOOL tell them we all serve the same GOD differently . LIE OF ANTI CHRIST . yet many see it as love .
and why on earth am i seeing rainbows , love of money , and sins being HONOR ED .
JESUS is NOT the minstir of any sin , HE came to SET US FREE FROM SIN
FROM HE who is the father of rebellion .